Do we really need HSR for LD?

[crescent-zephyr]

They want to do other things on their days off than sitting on a train, even if they actually enjoy the train.

Not necessarily. I enjoyed traveling by train on my days off in between work.

 

[McIntyre2K7]

Not necessarily. I enjoyed traveling by train on my days off in between work.

I wish I could take the train and go to Orlando on a day trip. It's great for people who live in Orlando. They can take a trip to Tampa arrive by noon and spend about 4-5 hours here before taking the train home. Living in Tampa, I would have to spend a night in a hotel since the northbound train doesn't get into Orlando until after 7pm.


It would be nice if they extended the SunRail to Tampa as well...I guess I have to drive or wait until Brightline finishes the extension to Tampa. Sigh...

 

[jis]

I still see freight trains going through Palatka - and as far south as Barberville still heading south

CSX has trackage rights for local deliveries, and they do have quite a number of customers along that route.

CSX considered their traffic needs to be low enough to dispose off the Palatka to Deland segment to Amtrak.

Similarly, you can see freight trains almost everywhere on the NEC too (except CP Lane just west of Newark Airport Station to just west of Hell Gate Bridge where the Fresh Pond Conrail Shared Assets line separates out). But the onlt through runs are in a few places, most notably Perryville to Bayview, and up north P&W has a few

 

[neroden]

Without looking it up, I believe it was wartime appropriation (WWII) and the government did not return them, unlike after WWI.

Nope. Nationalization of the British railways was done in 1948 (Transport Act 1947), by the post-war Clement Atlee Labour government, elected on a socialist platform of nationalizing industry. The stockholders were bought out at a stock price based on the valuation of the shares in 1946; they were actually given "British Transport Stock" (which were basically government bonds) in exchange for their shares.

What made it easy was that the railways of the UK (forcibly merged into the "Big Four" in 1923, so there were basically only four of them) were all nearly bankrupt after WWII (often suffering bomb damage). Three of them had been nearly bankrupt before the war. Since British Transport Stock paid a guaranteed 3% for 40 years, it was a far better deal for the stockholders than stock in a nearly-bankrupt company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Act_1947
It's really no different than the US formation of Conrail, except that some *idiots* decided to privatize Conrail, so now we have to buy them out and nationalize them all over again.

 

[MARC Rider]

It's really no different than the US formation of Conrail, except that some *idiots* decided to privatize Conrail, so now we have to buy them out and nationalize them all over again.

Looks like that's what the British are doing, too.

 

[me_little_me]

It's really no different than the US formation of Conrail, except that some *idiots* decided to privatize Conrail, so now we have to buy them out and nationalize them all over again.

I disagree with your contention. I don't think privatization was bad. What was bad is not getting a concession from the railroads to allow any number of priority passenger trains on those tracks at any time in the future at no cost to Amtrak or any public transit system; a stipulation that the mainlines had to meet certain maintenance standards so passenger trains could meet the same standard of speed as what they would have been capable of at the time the government turned over the tracks to the railroad; that the railroads had to give any of those tracks they wanted to abandon to a federal, state or local government at no cost if an agency wanted them and in the same condition as they were when turned over to the railroad; and offer the government the option to buy any of those tracks the railroad wished to sell at their appraised value before offering it to another entity.

This would have allowed Amtrak and public transit to run trains on any or all of those lines at priority and without paying unless they wanted the tracks upgraded to faster speeds.

The offers would have been lower but the benefit would have been much greater.

 

[MARC Rider]

I disagree with your contention. I don't think privatization was bad. What was bad is not getting a concession from the railroads to allow any number of priority passenger trains on those tracks at any time in the future at no cost to Amtrak or any public transit system; a stipulation that the mainlines had to meet certain maintenance standards so passenger trains could meet the same standard of speed as what they would have been capable of at the time the government turned over the tracks to the railroad; that the railroads had to give any of those tracks they wanted to abandon to a federal, state or local government at no cost if an agency wanted them and in the same condition as they were when turned over to the railroad; and offer the government the option to buy any of those tracks the railroad wished to sell at their appraised value before offering it to another entity.

The way our "free enterprise system" is set up, the major (and to some, the only) obligation of private businesses is to their owners, shareholders in the case of publicly held companies or the rich plutocrats or venture/vulture capitalists who own "privately held" companies. Even if they're not looting the assets of a company by running up massive debt and providing the most inferior product they can get away with while skimming off as much of the revenue as they can until the company is a bankrupt shell, they will optimize their operations by cutting costs as much as possible. In the case of the railroads, the class I's even messed up their freight services to save costs after they shut down the competition from Conrail by buying up the assets. Any "concessions" they might have given the government about passenger trains when they bought the assets wouldn't worth the paper they're written on. They will either try to find loopholes, or just tie the government up in court. And even if the government were to win the case, the railroad would still drag their heels if it affected its bottom line.

There's a reason why every other kind of transportation infrastructure is owned by the public.