earning tier qualifying points (vouchers and Maple Leaf)

[willem]

Does the value of the voucher used to pay for a ticket earn TQPs? Would the type of voucher affect the answer? (I believe vouchers from changed travel start with a V and vouchers for deficient service start with a T. If I'm mistaken or there are other vouchers, please chime in.)

A ticket for the Canadian portion of the Maple Leaf can be sold and issued by Amtrak, but the train is operated by Via. Does that portion of the journey not earn TQPs? For the Cascades and the Adirondack, where there is no Via train number, does the entire leg earn TQPs?

Thanks for the education.

 

[cpotisch]

As you said, there are two types of vouchers. Transportation Vouchers start with a T, are issued as compensation by Customer Relations, and can only be used once, while E-Vouchers start with a V, are issued due to cancelled or modified tickets, and can be used repeatedly until the value is used up.

As I understand it, you get the exact same number of TQPs as you do AGR points when booking Amtrak travel, and neither have anything to do with who actually operates the train. And when you think about it, how could they even calculate the TQPs and AGR points for only a certain portion of the whole ride?  It’s not like the cost of one ticket is broken down as just the sum of every segment along the way.

 

[pennyk]

If I remember correctly, I did not get AGR points for the portion of my trip on the Maple Leaf inside Canada.  I did that trip in 2010, so my memory may be foggy.  I think I remember that I was not able to use my AAA discount for the Canada portion of the trip.  Things may have changed since then.

 

[jis]

Yeah each time I traveled on the Leaf into Canada, Canada/VIA is different. No AGR point for traveling on a VIA train no matter who sells you the ticket. For Maple Leaf you effectively get two tickets. The second ticket is lifted in Canada and goes into VIA's revenue. Interestingly the BC upcharge in Canada is just $1 since VIA does not really treat it as BC. Unfortunately VIA and Amtrak do not participate in each other's plan, or at least didn't back then.

Adirondack and Cascades are different because they are entirely Amtrak operations even in Canada.

 

[cpotisch]

Yeah each time I traveled on the Leaf into Canada, Canada/VIA is different. No AGR point for traveling on a VIA train no matter who sells you the ticket. For Maple Leaf you effectively get two tickets. The second ticket is lifted in Canada and goes into VIA's revenue. Interestingly the BC upcharge in Canada is just $1 since VIA does not really treat it as BC. Unfortunately VIA and Amtrak do not participate in each other's plan, or at least didn't back then.

Adirondack and Cascades are different because they are entirely Amtrak operations even in Canada.

How do they calculate the value of the Amtrak portion vs the VIA portion?

 

[jis]

They calculate portions for all multi leg tickets and accrue the amounts to individual trains or systems. This is no different. I suspect they have a joint agreement on what the fares will be in Canada part of the travel.

 

[willem]

As you said, there are two types of vouchers. Transportation Vouchers start with a T, are issued as compensation by Customer Relations, and can only be used once, while E-Vouchers start with an E, are issued due to cancelled or modified tickets, and can be used repeatedly until the value is used up.

I've not seen an E voucher, but I have seen many V vouchers, all of which were e-vouchers.

How do they calculate the value of the Amtrak portion vs the VIA portion?

Is the fare of a trip that crosses the border the sum of the fares for a trip in US and a trip in Canada? If so, that would make it easy. If there is a discount, perhaps the ratio of the individual fares to the total determines the split. To answer the question that you asked, I have no idea.

However, the Amtrak agent has been happy to provide an itemization when I have made reservations. I just ask, and the agent tells me the rail fare for Amtrak, the rail fare for Via, and the respective business class upgrade charges. To answer the question you didn't ask, there is some method. I'm just not privy to it.

 

[cpotisch]

As you said, there are two types of vouchers. Transportation Vouchers start with a T, are issued as compensation by Customer Relations, and can only be used once, while E-Vouchers start with an E, are issued due to cancelled or modified tickets, and can be used repeatedly until the value is used up.

I've not seen an E voucher, but I have seen many V vouchers, all of which were e-vouchers.

Sorry, typo.

 

[cpotisch]

How do they calculate the value of the Amtrak portion vs the VIA portion?

Is the fare of a trip that crosses the border the sum of the fares for a trip in US and a trip in Canada? If so, that would make it easy. If there is a discount, perhaps the ratio of the individual fares to the total determines the split. To answer the question that you asked, I have no idea.

For typical Amtrak travel, a longer trip costs significantly less than the sum of two shorter segments (this is also why many people here don't recommend breaking up a ride into multiple sleeper and non-sleeper segments).

And how do VIA and Amtrak deal with buckets and such when pricing the different portions? They can't just have a set price for the respective segments, since the overall ticket doesn't have a set price. I guess they could literally calculate the ratio from the mileage, but that would still omit scheduling and demand between particular cities.

 

[jis]

Look at the segment specific AGR points that are allocated on a multi-segment itinerary. That is done based on apportionment of the fare to each segment. Just because we do not know the algorithm does not mean that a method does not exist. They are also not obligated to let everyone know what method they use as long as you get the points that are due based on the original fare.

Also they have to do this even for correct AGR point and TQP accrual, for example in an itinerary that includes both a Coach segment and a BC segment. The BC segment gets the 25% BC bonus TQP, the Coach segment does not.

 

[SubwayNut]

The one time I took the Maple Leaf transborder was after arriving in Toronto on the Canadian (I spent a few days there) and continuing on. I actually booked two to tickets to end this trip.

A VIA ticket as a multi-trip segment add on from Toronto to Niagara Falls, NY, this was cheaper than a simple Vancouver to Toronto upper birth ticket because adding a segment to Niagara Falls made the ticket tax free, No GST/HST is charged on VIA transborder tickets. I remember getting two via tickets one Toronto to the border, and one from the border to NFL.

I then booked a regular Amtrak ticket from Niagara Falls, NY staring on the same Maple Leaf train (as a multi-city ticket with overnight less than 24 hour stopovers in Buffalo, and Syracuse, and midday stopover to Rochester) to New York Penn, for a low-bucket with a NY by Rail Discount of between $50 and $60.

I remember I looked at buying one Maple Leaf ticket from VIA to Buffalo-Exchange St but it was like $10 more than getting off at NFL, and I only wanted to spend one night in Buffalo.

 

[neroden]

FWIW I believe the Amtrak/VIA switchover point is actually at Niagara Falls Ontario, so I think you would get full credit for a trip that far into Canada.  Haven't tested this.

 

[jis]

FWIW I believe the Amtrak/VIA switchover point is actually at Niagara Falls Ontario, so I think you would get full credit for a trip that far into Canada.  Haven't tested this.

I believe you are correct.

It is possible that for fare purposes VIA treats Nigara Falls NY and Niagara Falls ON as the same fare.

 

[Bob Dylan]

This is correct, but if you go any farther on the Maple Leaf into Canada it becomes a VIA Train and you pay them a Seprate Fare thru Amtrak.

 

[cpotisch]

The one time I took the Maple Leaf transborder was after arriving in Toronto on the Canadian (I spent a few days there) and continuing on. I actually booked two to tickets to end this trip.

A VIA ticket as a multi-trip segment add on from Toronto to Niagara Falls, NY, this was cheaper than a simple Vancouver to Toronto upper birth ticket because adding a segment to Niagara Falls made the ticket tax free, No GST/HST is charged on VIA transborder tickets. I remember getting two via tickets one Toronto to the border, and one from the border to NFL.

I then booked a regular Amtrak ticket from Niagara Falls, NY staring on the same Maple Leaf train (as a multi-city ticket with overnight less than 24 hour stopovers in Buffalo, and Syracuse, and midday stopover to Rochester) to New York Penn, for a low-bucket with a NY by Rail Discount of between $50 and $60.

I remember I looked at buying one Maple Leaf ticket from VIA to Buffalo-Exchange St but it was like $10 more than getting off at NFL, and I only wanted to spend one night in Buffalo.

So if I ever take the Canadian, I can save money by booking an extra segment to Niagara Falls? And can I add that onto the "Sleeper Plus class deals" found here?