Emp Serv to GCT, LSL NYP Suspended, Other NYP Changes 2018

[Thirdrail7]

Now that things are firming up, there is great chance that NO Empire service will operate into NYP this summer. The majority will be diverted to GCT while some of the longer distance trains (e.g. the Adirondack) may terminate in ALB.

Keep a sharp watch.

 

[Northeastern292]

Now that things are firming up, there is great chance that NO Empire service will operate into NYP this summer. The majority will be diverted to GCT while some of the longer distance trains (e.g. the Adirondack) may terminate in ALB.

Keep a sharp watch.

Last I heard is that everything south of ALB will be shuttle service with everything north and west originating in either ALB or (in the case of the Lake Shore) BOS.

Can anyone say the return of the New England States?

 

[stappend]

No NYP section of the LSL during the summer.

https://csanders429.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/new-york-section-of-lsl-reportedly-will-be-suspended-during-new-york-penn-station-work-this-summer/

This could play into the decision making process. The diner runs out of NYP. Curious to see if they will run the entire train out of Boston, or add additional cars in Albany.

 

[Steve4031]

Would the platforms be long enough in Boston?

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[Palmetto]

Would the platforms be long enough in Boston?

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I've arrived at South Station on a 14-car Merchants Limited, so I would say yes.

 

[Steve4031]

Ok. It would make sense then.

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[Blackwolf]

The Cardinal is going to be a very popular train on the days it runs....

 

[west point]

Nothing yet from Amtrak so let us wait on final routing.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Restart the Broadway! Or get the through cars up and running!

 

[jis]

Would the platforms be long enough in Boston?

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I've arrived at South Station on a 14-car Merchants Limited, so I would say yes.

I am trying to remember if there was a Merchants Limited after South Station platforms were rebuilt as shorter platforms than before.

I do think though that at least a few of them would be long enough for a typical LSL consist.

 

[stappend]

I looked it up, there are several in the 1200 foot range, but I couldn't find the typical length of the LSL and they could drop at least the 2nd bag car.

 

[jis]

LSL is minimally 5 Coaches, 3 Sleepers, Diner, Lounge, two bags and two diesels. Yes they could drop one bag. So that would be 11 cars and two engines. That should be under 1100'.

I seem to recall though that Thirdrail had mentioned that problem is not so much with platform length as with available storage and servicing track length, of which there are none that can accommodate such a long train at Southampton Street. This is what might cause a part of the train to be lopped off at Albany and services there instead of the whole thing running to Boston.

 

[cpotisch]

I still don’t quite understand why they would do this?

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[Ryan]

Construction at NYP.

 

[PRR 60]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the work planned for Pittsburgh had been performed allowing cars to be efficiently transferred to and from the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Limited. Amtrak could have rerouted the Lake Shore via Philadelphia and Pittsburgh on the schedule of the Pennsylvanian and, between PGH and CHI on the back of the Capitol with no host railroad impact and minimal Amtrak cost impact.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the work planned for Pittsburgh had been performed allowing cars to be efficiently transferred to and from the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Limited. Amtrak could have rerouted the Lake Shore via Philadelphia and Pittsburgh on the schedule of the Pennsylvanian and, between PGH and CHI on the back of the Capitol with no host railroad impact and minimal Amtrak cost impact.

If Amtrak were interested in temporarily doing such a thing why couldn't they just route it via Washington and a Northeast Regional?

 

[PRR 60]

I still don’t quite understand why they would do this?

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Reportedly, the work planned at Penn Station this summer sever access to and from the tunnel for the Empire Service line. An added complication is that the Lake Shore must not only access the west side connector tunnel, but also the East River tunnels to permit servicing at Sunnyside Yard. If the specific tracks needed for that operation are out of service for reconstruction, then the Lake Shore cannot run to and from New York Penn.

 

[jis]

They are also apparently going to take this opportunity to take the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge out of service and do major maintenance work on it this summer. Hence nothing will run on the Empire Connection this summer.

 

[cpotisch]

But the LSL is such a popular and profitable train! Why don’t they try and run it out of GCT? I know that Grand Central doesn’t have unlimited capacity to run EVERY Amtrak train, but the Lake Shore is pretty significant. Could they not slide it in?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

But the LSL is such a popular and profitable train! Why dont they at least run it out of GCT? I know that Grand Central doesnt have unlimited capacity, but the Lake Shore is pretty significant.

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It can not access Sunnyside Yard easily from Grand Central, which is necessary to service a long-distance train.

 

[lstone19]

But the LSL is such a popular and profitable train! Why dont they at least run it out of GCT? I know that Grand Central doesnt have unlimited capacity, but the Lake Shore is pretty significant.

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It can not access Sunnyside Yard easily from Grand Central, which is necessary to service a long-distance train.

From its start in 1975 until 1991, the LSL went in and out of GCT. Back then, the train was serviced in Chicago and did a same day (approx. 5 hours with the schedule then) turn at GCT.

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[jis]

But the facilities that were in place at Grand Central to turn the LSL there are no more. So it is irrelevant what happened back then.

 

[cpotisch]

But the LSL is such a popular and profitable train! Why dont they at least run it out of GCT? I know that Grand Central doesnt have unlimited capacity, but the Lake Shore is pretty significant.

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It can not access Sunnyside Yard easily from Grand Central, which is necessary to service a long-distance train.

Ooooooohhh. Argh. That’s a shame. It would be so glorious to take the Lake Shore Limited out of that beautiful station.

 

[dlagrua]

I don't see this as a good move for Amtrak. The LSL is one of Amtrak's most crowded trains and the New York-Chicago passengers will be left with the 3 day Cardinal as the only choice. Problem is that the Cardinal is a small train with one or two sleepers, a cafe car and maybe three coaches. That train could not possibly take the additional passenger load. Moving the LSL temporarily to Grand Central station makes the most sense.

 

[Trogdor]

I don't see this as a good move for Amtrak. The LSL is one of Amtrak's most crowded trains and the New York-Chicago passengers will be left with the 3 day Cardinal as the only choice. Problem is that the Cardinal is a small train with one or two sleepers, a cafe car and maybe three coaches. That train could not possibly take the additional passenger load. Moving the LSL temporarily to Grand Central station makes the most sense.

Not when there is no way to service the train.

NY-bound passengers can transfer at ALB to an Empire Service train. It's not the end of the world. It's not really that different than the many times Amtrak had to run a shuttle/stub train ALB-BOS instead of a through train, except that now it's a different set of passengers making the transfer.