Empire Builder Chicago to Seattle in mid-winter

[user 6862]

We're thinking of travelling from Chicago to Seattle to Los Angeles in January next year. Is the Empire Builder usually good for timekeeping during mid-winter?

And how about the Coast Starlight too?

Thank you

 

[AmtrakBlue]

This past January, the Empire Builder arrived early every day (do to COVID, the trains were only running 3 days a week)
https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/a...=schAr&sort_dir=DESC&co=gt&limit_mins=&dfon=1
The Coast Starlight had a mix of early & late with an average of being late 53 mins
https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/a...=schAr&sort_dir=DESC&co=gt&limit_mins=&dfon=1

 

[user 6862]

This past January, the Empire Builder arrived early every day (do to COVID, the trains were only running 3 days a week)
https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/a...=schAr&sort_dir=DESC&co=gt&limit_mins=&dfon=1
The Coast Starlight had a mix of early & late with an average of being late 53 mins
https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/a...=schAr&sort_dir=DESC&co=gt&limit_mins=&dfon=1

Thanks Ma'am

 

[MARC Rider]

I rode the Empire Builder between Chicago and Havre MT back in February of 2007. While it may not have much relevance to current timekeeping, the train in both directions did not run too much behind schedule. In fact, on the eastbound run back to Chicago, we were running dead on schedule until, a bit after we left Milwaukee, we were delayed for about 30 minutes due to a mechanical issue. We had a good bit of snow westbound leaving Chicago, in fact someone told us the airports has closed, but that didn't seem to slow us down. My the time we got to St. Paul, the temperatures were in the the single digits, Fahrenheit, and the next morning in Minot, and all the way to Havre (and the drive to Great Falls), it was at least 10 below zero, again in Fahrenheit. This didn't seem to affect the operation of the train, and while there was some snow on the ground, it wasn't a lot and did not cause any problems with the train. Of course, had a blizzard blown through, it would have been a different matter. I had rented a 4-wheel drive SUV for my trip from Havre to Yellowstone National Park, but the roads were clear for more or less the whole trip.

 

[user 6862]

I rode the Empire Builder between Chicago and Havre MT back in February of 2007. While it may not have much relevance to current timekeeping, the train in both directions did not run too much behind schedule. In fact, on the eastbound run back to Chicago, we were running dead on schedule until, a bit after we left Milwaukee, we were delayed for about 30 minutes due to a mechanical issue. We had a good bit of snow westbound leaving Chicago, in fact someone told us the airports has closed, but that didn't seem to slow us down. My the time we got to St. Paul, the temperatures were in the the single digits, Fahrenheit, and the next morning in Minot, and all the way to Havre (and the drive to Great Falls), it was at least 10 below zero, again in Fahrenheit. This didn't seem to affect the operation of the train, and while there was some snow on the ground, it wasn't a lot and did not cause any problems with the train. Of course, had a blizzard blown through, it would have been a different matter. I had rented a 4-wheel drive SUV for my trip from Havre to Yellowstone National Park, but the roads were clear for more or less the whole trip.

That sounds like a really interesting adventure, Yellowstone in winter, would you recommend it?

Thanks for all of that, it's a big help. It does sound as though the Empire Builder is set up for winter weather which is as it should be. Of course as you write if something out of the ordinary should happen it could be an ever greater adventure. Very encouraging.

 

[oregon pioneer]

Last time I was westbound on the EB in winter, it was over 12 hours late arriving, due to one mishap after another (flat wheel, blizzard in the Rockies, engine failure in western Montana). But that's the exception rather than the rule.

I will be on the EB westbound this winter, leaving CHI on Feb 5th. If I could only do one direction in winter, I'd prefer the timing eastbound, which I will be doing Jan 9th from Oregon. Eastbound, the later you are, the more you get the Rockies in daylight. Westbound, they are mostly in the dark.

Regarding Yellowstone in winter, YES it's beautiful. I went there on group tour in 2014 to do cross-country skiing, but anyone can take a snow coach to Old Faithful or just walk around the trails through the hot springs at mammoth, and have a great time. Explore in Winter - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[MARC Rider]

That sounds like a really interesting adventure, Yellowstone in winter, would you recommend it?

Thanks for all of that, it's a big help. It does sound as though the Empire Builder is set up for winter weather which is as it should be. Of course as you write if something out of the ordinary should happen it could be an ever greater adventure. Very encouraging.

Oh yes, I think that a winter trip to Yellowstone is one of those classic travel experiences that should be on most people's bucket lists. Winter is the time to avoid the crowds that fill the place in the summer, and the wildlife all comes to you, as they want to congregate around the little grass exposed around the thermal features. You'll see herds of bison and elk, plus the possibility of bighorn sheep, and other smaller animals. We didn't see any wolves on our trip, but we did see wolf tracks in the snow at one point.

Here's a link to a trip report I made about the trip.

Here's a link to the site of Xanterra (which used the be the Fred Harvey Company), who runs the concession for the lodging in the park. There are only two hotels open during the winter, and only one (Mammoth Hot Springs) that you can drive to in your car. The other, the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, requires a ride in a tracked snow coach. I went mainly for cross country skiing and snowshoeing, but, of course, we also toured the thermal features at both Mammoth Hot Springs and around Old Faithful. I would recommend "trail crampons" or "microspikes" for walking on the boardwalks around the hot springs and geysers. The snow on the boardwalks is deep, packed down, slippery and of irregular thickness. You don't want to fall off! Off the boardwalks and cleared walkways, the snow can easily be 3-4 feet (1 - 1.2 meters) deep, so skis or snowshoes are really useful. I'm sure they rent them there, but I brought my own.

The main access by train would be using the Empire Builder to Havre and renting a car there. Back in 2007 there was a Budget Rent-a-car agency at the local GM dealer. They picked my up the the train station, but I made the mistake of booking my return trip on a Sunday, when the GM dealer (and the rental agency was closed.) They told me to just park at the train station and lock my keys in the car, which I did, but the windshield got cracked before they could retrieve the car, and I was on the hook for the repair.

The drive to the park is a couple of hundred miles, but over very good roads; no twisty mountain stuff, except near the end. I was able to get to Great Falls, where I spent the night, right before it got dark. The next day I went through Helena, and Three Forks before spending another night in Bozeman, where the rest of the group flew in. Then an easy drive through Livingston to Gardiner, the northern gateway to the park. As I said, the weather was clear and the roads were clear.

 

[Chris I]

We took the builder back in mid-March a few years ago, and it was 10 hours late going westbound, due to a blizzard and damage to the plow on the lead engine in North Dakota. It can definitely happen, but odds are you will be on time. Silver lining was that we got to see the Kootenay River section in the daylight.

 

[joelkfla]

That sounds like a really interesting adventure, Yellowstone in winter, would you recommend it?

Thanks for all of that, it's a big help. It does sound as though the Empire Builder is set up for winter weather which is as it should be. Of course as you write if something out of the ordinary should happen it could be an ever greater adventure. Very encouraging.

I did a winter trip to Yellowstone many years ago; I think it was in the '90s. It was one of the most memorable vacations of my life. The juxtaposition of the steam and the snow is breathtaking.

I am not a skier (not athletic in any sense.) I had planned to do a snowmobile tour, but had to cancel that due to a minor injury just before the trip. But there were a variety of ranger-led snowcat and van tours that were all worthwhile.

I split my stay between the Snow Lodge and the historic hotel at the north end of the park. At the Snow Lodge, I booked an outlying cabin to save a few bucks. Well, after trudging through the snow and freezing temperatures to the main lodge for dinner the first night, I quickly moved to a room in the lodge.

 

[user 6862]

It's wonderful reading about all your experiences, thank you very much. Keep them coming as they are inspiring us to get there one way or another.

Is there a winter RV camping facility at Yellowstone, or is that a question too far?

 

[oregon pioneer]

Is there a winter RV camping facility at Yellowstone, or is that a question too far?

Sounds like the answer to that question is yes, up to 30" long. Mammoth Campground - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
No electricity, no internet, but they have a shower house.

There are also a couple of RV parks in Gardiner, which is just outside the park. Doesn't say what their season is on their websites, you might have to float a trial reservation to find out.

• Rocky Mountain RV Park + Cabins
• Yellowstone RV Park

 

[Rasputin]

During a May trip on the Empire Builder a few years back, I recall that the sleeping car attendant told me: "Don't ever take this train in the winter!"

Maybe he just didn't have a sense of adventure (or maybe he had had too many adventures).

 

[user 6862]

Sounds like the answer to that question is yes, up to 30" long. Mammoth Campground - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
No electricity, no internet, but they have a shower house.

There are also a couple of RV parks in Gardiner, which is just outside the park. Doesn't say what their season is on their websites, you might have to float a trial reservation to find out.

• Rocky Mountain RV Park + Cabins
• Yellowstone RV Park

Thanks again Jennifer, that would work for us. Our camper is 25' long so we would fit in easily.

 

[willem]

Is there a winter RV camping facility at Yellowstone[...]?

Sounds like the answer to that question is yes, up to 30" long.

Sounds like the Lilliputians are all set.

 

[user 6862]

Sounds like the Lilliputians are all set.

We were brought up in the gutter living in a shoe box (a nod to Monty Python)

 

[dwebarts]

We were brought up in the gutter living in a shoebox (a nod to Monty Python)

Housing costs are rising so fast many could find that the default option within 20 years.

 

[Willbridge]

During a May trip on the Empire Builder a few years back, I recall that the sleeping car attendant told me: "Don't ever take this train in the winter!"

Maybe he just didn't have a sense of adventure (or maybe he had had too many adventures).

The linked video is a bit dated, shot on 8 mm, but the beauty is still there.

 

[flitcraft]

Winter travel isn't for everyone, I grant, but there is a terrible beauty in frozen scenery that is, quite literally, awesome. I haven't yet taken the Builder in true winter, only in late fall, but a true winter trip is something I dearly hope to do soon.

Actually, every season has its beauty, I think--the fresh electric greens and rushing rivers of spring, the laconic lushness of summer, the crisp-aired riot of color of fall, and the stark shimmering ice and snow of winter. There's no bad season when it comes to train travel...

 

[Sidney]

Years ago on a circle trip in February the range in temperatures was -21 in Montana to 86 in Los Angeles. Some of the doors on the EB were frozen shut.

I'm taking the Zephyr,Coast Starlight and Sunset/Eagle on a circle trip in late January. When prices are almost $500 cheaper for the CZ in a roomette in January over July I'll gladly sacrifice the warmer weather and extended daylight.

 

[20th Century Rider]

There is absolutely nothing quite like the Empire Builder barreling through the frigid snow in the winter!

 

[20th Century Rider]

During a May trip on the Empire Builder a few years back, I recall that the sleeping car attendant told me: "Don't ever take this train in the winter!"

Maybe he just didn't have a sense of adventure (or maybe he had had too many adventures).

I'll take the adventure!

 

[Northwestern]

The Zephyr, Davis to Reno, was the last time I took an Amtrak train during the winter. Very scenic but Reno was very, very cold. I always wanted to take the Empire Builder #8, from Seattle, to Leavenworth during the winter around Christmas time.

Speaking of weather and the Empire Builder, an unusual EB derailment back in 1931:

Weather Talk: Anniversary of the Empire Builder tornado

I've also have wondered if any Builder train has ever been derailed by hitting a bear, along the track, going through Glacier Park.

 

[zephyr17]

I've also have wondered if any Builder train has ever been derailed by hitting a bear going through Glacier Park.

Hitting a bear wouldn't derail a train, but would pretty thoroughly smash the bear. Hitting cars doesn't generally derail trains, and cars are both heavier and made out of metal.

I understand bear hits by trains are relatively common on Marias Pass, as there is often spilled grain from wheat hoppers trackside and the bears are attracted to it. Not healthy for the bears, but little effect on trains.

 

[Rasputin]

I am not aware of the Empire Builder has ever been derailed by hitting a bear.

This item may be of interest but it doesn't indicate if any bears were killed by Amtrak trains as opposed to BNSF freights.

https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2...s-to-reduce-train-related-grizzly-bear-deaths

 

[Northwestern]

I am not aware of the Empire Builder has ever been derailed by hitting a bear.

This item may be of interest but it doesn't indicate if any bears were killed by Amtrak trains as opposed to BNSF freights.

https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2...s-to-reduce-train-related-grizzly-bear-deaths

"The plan requests that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issue a special permit that allows 18 bears to be killed, without penalty to BNSF, on about 200 miles of train tracks that run along the southern border of Glacier, over the next seven years".

*******************************************
How did they come up with that number (18). How can they determine what bear kills are BNSF's fault or the bear's fault from getting too close to the track?