empire builder room

[sutton8596]

Hi guys,

I've book a res for the standard sleeper on the EB for July, SEA-CHI. Last year I traveled CHI-SEA. Great ride, great train.

I asked for room #11 since I prefer downstairs. My question is this: Is #11 preferable to #12 in terms of scenery? Now I know the coaches can be switched around, but does Amtrak face them one way MOST of the time? Thanks!

Scott

 

[AlanB]

Scott,

I can't really answer the question of which side has the better view, however I'm sure that there are a few others here who can.

As far as the room itself, there is really no way to know for sure. Amtrak does orientate the sleepers in both directions. Based upon my own experiences, my guess is that you have about a 60% to 65% chance that the sleeper would be orientated with the deluxe bedrooms first. If indeed you hit a sleeper with the deluxe bedrooms closest to the head end, then room #11 would be on the right side of the train.

 

[tubaallen]

Scott,

As you probably already know from last year, both sides really have great scenery. I don't think I would even be concerned with which side I was on. I would just make sure that for those particularly beautiful parts I made it to the sightseer lounge car . I might see you out there...I plan to be working over the summer on the train, and the EB is one of the trains I will be working. Have a great trip!

Allen

 

[sutton8596]

Thanks guys, as always. I've got quite a few trips lined up over the next two years. I have been writing to senators, etc. to express my support for Amtrak.

Tubaallen, what will you likely be doing on the EB? I'll be departing Seattle on July 8th. Hope to see ya.

 

[frank]

Dear Sutton,

The scenery on both the north and south sides of the Empire Builder are nice. Few notable differences. A couple of historical oblisks fly by to the south. Lewis and Clark thingys. Oil/gas derricks on both sides. Tumbleweeds seem no heavier on either side. Antelope populations seem to be about the same on both sides.

Glacier might be a little more striking from the north side, but it's very slight. The glacier melt river shows well from both sides.

You can never tell with Amtrak about room placement. I've been east with 11 facing north, only to have 11 facing south heading west.

Considering the time of year you're traveling, try and book your dining car time during Glacier Park. It's not hard to do. You'll get a great view from the dining car as you chug up some of the finest, smoothest track on the entire trip, not to mention the unbelievable job that the early rail workers did on grading through these mountains.

In western Montana, the south side of the train will begin to show you the Bearpaw mts off to the south. This is just a prelude to the Glacier peaks and the pass portal starting to show hundreds of miles away. You can actually see the pass through Glacier unfolding, from way out. But at the same time, the Sweetgrass plains to the north are awe inspiring, as they skew ever upwards towards Canada, probably 20 miles in view.

All in all an extremely pleasant journey is had by all. I'm sure you will enjoy this gem. Wish I was going with you.

Frank

 

[PRR 60]

I found the Empire Builder to be an exceptionally well-run operation. In my opinion, it is Amtrak’s best long distance train (and yes, I have ridden the Coast Starlight). My wife and I rode it westbound in 1998 as part of a Rail/Air transcon trip from Philadelphia to Seattle. The route is quite interesting, and with a distinctly minority opinion, I actually enjoyed the trip across the plains of North Dakota and eastern Montana. Although the terrain in this area is often described as dull, I found it to be the real west and very enjoyable. Another nice aspect of the Empire Builder is that it follows a route that, for a large portion of the trip, is far removed from any Interstate highway.

One thing I did prior to the trip that worked out nicely was purchase a topographic atlas for each of the daytime states on the route. The DeLorme Gazetteers, available for virtually all states, have very detailed, small-scale (1” = 4 miles) topographic maps which, most important of all, show the rail routes. This was a nice way to know exactly what river, mountain, small town, or lake was passing outside the window. I am a geography junkie, and those maps were great.

 

[tubaallen]

Tubaallen, what will you likely be doing on the EB? I'll be departing Seattle on July 8th. Hope to see ya.

Unfortunately, Scott, the odds of seeing me are very slim. That I will be working that particular train on that particular trip, that is. However, if I do happen to be on your train, I will either be working the coaches, or one of the sleepers (most likely the Portland sleeper, or the 2731 car). Either way, whether I see you or not, hope you have a GREAT trip.

Allen

 

[sutton8596]

Hi PRR60 and Frank,

Excellent suggestions. I'm very much looking forward to this trip! I will book my breakfast/lunch in the dining car for when we go through the mountains.

It will be interesting comparing the Canadian to The Empire Builder.

Scott

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

As to comparing the Canadian and the Empire Builder, I tihink the scenery is of similar grandeur. It has been 30 years since I rode the Canadian, (and the Super Continental, its former competiton). I have ridden the Builder a couple of times, more recently.

 

[Steve Relei]

I, too, have strong feelings for the Empire Builder, having spent my teen years in Billings, Montana, and wanting to take aride on it. I finally did in 1978. I used to go to summer camp, which was along the route. I used to have Charles R. Wood's book "Lines West" and read it over and over. This book has lots of photos of the Great Northern, from its beginnings to 1967, from St. Paul to Seattle and Vancouver and places in between. He has sections devoted to steam, to electrics, the building of the Cascade Tunnel, and 1940s-60s diesel and streamliners (Empire Builder and

Western Star).

I have been on the Builder a number of times since and always enjoy it. My favorite segments are: through Glacier National Park--during the winter, best going east as it is dark westbound. The Washington Cascades (including though the 8-mile Cascade Tunnel), which is best, during the winter, westbound. Same thing with the Portland section through the Columbia Gorge. Westbound works best during the winter months.

Eastbound, it may be dark passing through Glacier but daylight (dawn) passing through the Cascades or through the Columbia Gorge.

Westbound, it maybe dark going through the Cascades or Columbia Gorge but daylight going through Glacier.

During the Spring and Summer months (maybe early Fall), the hours of daylight are longer and allow for longer viewing times in these areas.

 

[sutton8596]

Hi Steve,

You mention that it might be dark going through Glacier Eastbound, but according to the schedule, it should be 8-9 in the morning. Did you mean "westbound"? I'll be traveling in July; I assume (but am not sure) that dawn is around 5:30am/6am? Anyone know?

Thanks. Why doesn't Amtrak run the train (eastbound and westbound) so that you pass through the all the scenery during daylight?

Scott

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

I'll be traveling in July; I assume (but am not sure) that dawn is around 5:30am/6am? Anyone know?Thanks.

I can't remember when the sun comes up around that time (I'm usually not up that early during the summer! ), but I'm pretty sure that there's plenty of light by 6:30 AM. The eastbound trip through Glacier Park is during daylight year round, albeit barely during the winter. The westbound trip goes through Glacier during daylight only in the middle of the summer. Otherwise it's either getting dark or is already dark by the time the train makes it to the mountains.

Why doesn't Amtrak run the train (eastbound and westbound) so that you pass through the all the scenery during daylight?Scott

It's mainly due to Amtrak's focus on the endpoints. The schedules are set up to allow passengers to connect from one train to another during the day. For example: I'm looking at a trip later this summer on the Capitol Limited (#29) and Empire Builder. Right now, #29 has an 19 hour overnight trip from Washington, DC to Chicago, with an arrival time of 10:58 AM. If they were to make the trip a daytime trip, passengers would not be able to connect to any other trains without flipping the connecting trains' schedules as well. Even then, passengers would have to face a late-night connection, which is definitely not good.

Edit: I should also mention that to allow for this connection during the night, the Empire Builder's schedule would probably just make Glacier Park visible during the westbound trip and the Cascades visible during the eastbound trip, just flipping the current scenery arrangement.

 

[Steve Relei]

Westbound, from Chicago to Seattle/Portland, the train is scheduled to pass through Glacier in the early evening hours (6-9pm), that is assuming it is on time. During the winter hours, when daylight is in shorter supply, it is usually dark by that time. Similarly, eastbound, which is scheduled for the passage in the morning (7-9am, i.e.), it can still be dark in the morning, but the sun would be coming up and there is the prospect of some nice sunrises over the mountains. During the summer hours, in both directions, sunrise is very early in the morning and sunset late in the evening, you would have better chances to get enough light for viewing the scenery. The same conditions exist for the traverse of the Washington Cascades (though directions are reversed--westbound trains pass through the mountains in early morning; eastbound trains in the evening) and through the Columbia Gorge on the Portland segment.

The reasons for the discrepencies in lighting is the northernly location, which provides for short days and long nights in winter and long days and short nights in the summer--and of course, there is the constant change going from one condition to the other according the season. In the far north, Alaska and Canada (the Land of the Midnight Sun), the sun does not set in June and there is no daylight in December.

Make sure you recheck your schedule and make sure you are reading the right column in the right direction.

The same day/night/light/dark conditions exist for VIA Rail's "The Canadian," Amtrak's Cascadia Corridor trains, the Montreal and Toronto trains, among others. These conditions can be more extreme on the Alaska Railroad between Anchorage and Fairbanks.

 

[steve_relei]

Last night on the Travel Channel there was a program about Glacier National Park with numerous scenes of Amtrak's Empire Builder both on the train and trackside--some showing Amtrak passing through the park. There were interviews from passengers and Amtrak personnel about the importance of the train in getting people to the park. There were some historical pictures of Great Northern trains (including steam) passing through. The rest of the program dealt with other parts of the park--anybody who has ridden the train, or who has ever wanted to, or would like to know about the landscapes through which a train passes should watch this. Glacier is a beautiful place--both to visit and to see from the train. The Empire Builder, by the way, is the only train in the United States that passes through a national park. I don't know when the program will be on again, but keep a look out for it.

 

[frank]

Scott,

Hello my friend, we meet again.

Your reference about comparing the EB to the Canadian didn't go unnoticed by me. As you know, I'm a big fan of the EB. As a matter of fact, I just finished booking yet another voyage on this grand ship, complete with two deluxe bedrooms with the adjoining wall removed, which is the only way to travel if you ask me.

But I must admit there really is no comparison between the EB and the Canadian as far as views are concerned. While Glacier and the Cascades are way too cool on the EB, the Canadian wins hands down. Mt. Robson, Canada's highest peak plays hide and seek with you for what seems like hours. The serenity and isolation of the Canadian's route is like nothing found in America, at least not on the scale as in Canada.

I've done the Canadian both to Banff in the old days as well as to Jasper, it's current route. Both are extreme to say the least. My nose is still askew from pressing against the bedroom window, and I doubt that the porter was ever able to remove my nasal markings from the glass. It's that beautiful.

Hope you're well,

Frank

 

[sutton8596]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the inspiration; now I'm looking forward even more so to the trip. I guess we'll have the best of both worlds since we're coming back on the EB. I do love that train!

Did you make the Canadian trip all across by any chance? We're going from Toronto to Vancouver, but might switch and just go from Vancouver to Jasper and back, depending on SARS in Toronto.

BTW, Frank, you're a good writer. Do any freelancing?

See ya

Scott

 

[frank]

Scott,

As to comparing EB to Via, it's kinda' like saying blondes are better than brunettes. It's a very personal thing. But I will admit that Viarail is a voluptious vixen.

As to other rail routes, I would suggest this:

Do as I do......book a westward trip on the zephyr to the left coast from chi. Followed by an eastward return on eb from pdx to chi. Between the two routes a rental car exposes the west coast and connects the two routes with Seals and Redwood forests to die for. Not many things finer. Not to mention the fresh seafood.

Then, go via rail east or west, combined with the opposite in the upper American rail route, whether that's eastern or western.

Bottom line is this....whether you're on the Chief or the Limited or the Zephyr or the Canadian, or many others, these routes are as enjoyable today as any travel in America or Canada once was, still is and could be, and yet they are in jeapordy. One's effort should be focused not only on patronizing these routes, but on contacting Congress as to the need to maintain a passenger rail network in America.

Yes Scott, I write, but that's beside the point, unless it's about rails!

I love rails. Click clack.

Frank

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Scott and Frank, unless I missed it (and I apologize if I did), did either of you compare the Canadian with the CZ? I would be intersted in that comparison...have done the CZ many times but not the Canadian in 30 years so I don't rembemer it that well.

BY the way, I, too, travel really long trips by going in one direction and returing another. Get twice the bang for my buck.

 

[sutton8596]

Hi Bill,

Will let you know. I rode the CZ last summer. It was good. I suppose the CZ would offer milder mountain scenery the first day or so. I didn't think the scenery in northern Utah was overly inspiring. Nice going through Colorado. Nebraska's at night, thank god.

I know the Canadian's path goes through forests/lakes in the East, but plains in the middle. Not til the third day are there spectacular mountians. But, that's all from pictures. I'll see it in about seven weeks. Let ya know.

Cheers,

Scott

 

[steve_relei]

The Empire Builder and The Canadian are both good trains and have their points. I have always wanted to ride The Canadian all the way across Canada. However, I still liked it better when The Canadian was traveling on the CP route through Rogers Pass, the Spiral Tunnels, Lake Louise, Banff, etc. To me, it's just not the same. I like the Super Continental route, too. A luxury train is not the same either. Too bad the Canadian government (and/or who ever else is in charge of such decisions) we could have both trains on both routes running--even if they operate on less than daily service--perhaps alternating days of operation. There is a railpass which allows passengers to use both Amtrak and VIA Rail trains. That might be an option for some people.

While the prairies may not be as dramatic as the mountains in scenic appeal, they do have their moments, especially along the rivers and streams along which railroads often build their rail lines. And you can see forever and ever.