Future ideas for service in South Eastern US

[Palmland]

But the Palmetto and both the current Florida trains are absent from future planning between NC and Savannah. (Unless the new planning process changes that.) This map from the Southeast Corridor Commission's 2022 "technical" report touts the population and jobs along its planned routes. While it *only* shows the blobs on its planned routes, if it did show everything there would still not be any big blobs between Raleigh and Savannah.

And that's a real oversight. Hard to find a faster growing area then the Triangle in NC and the coastal cities in SC and GA. Our son is in the process of moving to Beaufort, SC (and reduce the need for us to use AutoTrain) and I was amazed at the amount of developments between Charleston and Savannah. Almost looks like Florida! And the prices are equally amazing. It would be tough to find a home under $500k and the nicer developments have prices comparable to NJ/NY (where a lot of the transplants are from). This area is certainly ripe for state sponsored service, but not likely with current politics. Perhaps the Core Backbone will address some of this, but also not likely in my lifetime. Didn't the original SEHSR plan have a branch from Charlotte through South Carolina?

 

[west point]

Some of the following is way in the future.
1. Naples , Fl certainly will deserve service in the future all along the west coast. However, any service from Sarasota south will need rebuilding over abandoned or new ROW. As well maybe service thru Venice again new ROW. The present RR ROWs are certainly not up to Brightline standards even by Lakeland or the tracks south of Tampa thru Phosphate mining. The hurricane showed that the ROW just to Ft. Meyers is substandard even possibly for Amtrak.

2. West coast service North of Tamps / St. Pete is needing restored which has all been abandoned from either Tallahassee, Thomasville , or Valdosta. It is worrying that the only access to central and southern Florida is the Baldwin / Jacksonville gateways.

 

[MARC Rider]

One thing worth looking at is whether one can get some more day trains along the A Line in the Carolinas. I've driven I-95 through there and despite the fact that the cities aren't large, the traffic is horrendous. Also, when I ride the Palmetto from Savannah, there's a lot people getting on at Florence, Fayetteville, Selma-Smithfield, Wilson, Rocky Mount, etc. There might be some benefit for a state-funded trains from Florence to Richmond or Washington, or from Florence to Raleigh or even Charlotte. Maybe the State of North Carolina might not be hot about funding a train that terminates in South Carolina, but I'm not sure that the tracks at Fayetteville would support storing or turning a train. Anyway, North Carolina already pays for the Carolinian that serves Richmond, Washington, and the NEC, so maybe they won't mind.

Another thing that would be worthwhile would be to provide service to Columbia, SC (it is their state capitol) that doesn't call in the middle of the night. Maybe a Raleigh - Columbia - Savannah day train and also a Columbia - Charleston train.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

One thing worth looking at is whether one can get some more day trains along the A Line in the Carolinas. I've driven I-95 through there and despite the fact that the cities aren't large, the traffic is horrendous. Also, when I ride the Palmetto from Savannah, there's a lot people getting on at Florence, Fayetteville, Selma-Smithfield, Wilson, Rocky Mount, etc. There might be some benefit for a state-funded trains from Florence to Richmond or Washington, or from Florence to Raleigh or even Charlotte. Maybe the State of North Carolina might not be hot about funding a train that terminates in South Carolina, but I'm not sure that the tracks at Fayetteville would support storing or turning a train. Anyway, North Carolina already pays for the Carolinian that serves Richmond, Washington, and the NEC, so maybe they won't mind.

Another thing that would be worthwhile would be to provide service to Columbia, SC (it is their state capitol) that doesn't call in the middle of the night. Maybe a Raleigh - Columbia - Savannah day train and also a Columbia - Charleston train.

Get SC to start funding these trains and they will happen. I imagine NC would be happy to fund part of the costs for trains that provide service to NC cities. Ball is really in SC's court.

 

[jis]

One thing worth pointing out in this context is that Fayetteville - Raleigh has received initial funding from the Corridor Id Program. This would make a Charleston or Florence to Raleigh or even Charlotte (the roundabout way via Raleigh) regional service becomes possible, without doing reversal gymnastics at Selma which would no doubt have given a major Cow to CSX.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

And that's a real oversight. Hard to find a faster growing area then the Triangle in NC and the coastal cities in SC and GA. Our son is in the process of moving to Beaufort, SC (and reduce the need for us to use AutoTrain) and I was amazed at the amount of developments between Charleston and Savannah. Almost looks like Florida! And the prices are equally amazing. It would be tough to find a home under $500k and the nicer developments have prices comparable to NJ/NY (where a lot of the transplants are from). This area is certainly ripe for state sponsored service, but not likely with current politics. Perhaps the Core Backbone will address some of this, but also not likely in my lifetime. Didn't the original SEHSR plan have a branch from Charlotte through South Carolina?

That's a good point about the rapidly re-populating coast from GA to NC. (Rural depopulation was in the early 20th century.) Seems to be sparked by people moving there to get away from cities, if you, say, read the Miami reddit. In any case, the numbers show NC adding the third most people (after TX and FL), and SC having an even faster growth rate than NC. Number one source of people moving to NC? Florida! Of course, it could be jobs too, or any number of non-lifestyle reasons.

Charlotte - Greenville - Atlanta, on the SEHSR, in the Piedmont, seems like a different story, driven by business growth. The two main metros are megasized, and grew earlier. Geographers have written about why the Piedmont overtook coastal areas back in more traditional economic times, partly due to rail.

And, yes, SC is unlikely to contribute to Amtrak. Coincidentally, it takes up a larger proportion of the I-95 route (Coastal Plain) than the I-85 route (Piedmont). So depending on how the funding rules play out, well who knows. But the Palmetto covers, like you say, an important area.

Place (coastal plain and fall line)	Metro pop. (MSA)	Super-metro pop. (CSA)
Brunswick, GA	116k	-
Hinesville, GA	89k	-
Savannah, GA	425k	640k
Augusta/Aiken, GA/SC	629k	-
Hilton Head/Beaufort, SC	233k	-
Charleston, SC	849k	-
Myrtle Beach, SC	397k	463k
Wilmington, NC	467k	-
Fayetteville, NC	392k	693k
Goldsboro, NC	119k	-
New Bern, NC	-	194k
Jacksonville, NC	214k	-
Greenville, NC	175k	-
SESHR example in the Piedmont: Greenville, SC	975k	1,591k

The Midwest has a ton of places like this, but it's newer here.

 

[Palmland]

Even though it’s not really part of the Atlantic Coast, this was an idea prompted by the Crescent discussion thread.

IMO it is time for the FRA to speed up this segment.

That would be nice but unlikely. Perhaps Amtrak should consider running the Crescent via Montgomery, state Capitol, to Mobile and New Orleans. That was the Crescent’s pre Amtrak route and would provide a third frequency Mobile to NOL and provide direct access for Atlanta to the gulf beaches.

Split a couple coaches, cafe and one sleeper in Atlanta for a Birmingham section. Birmingham has a second station track currently out of service that could be used for the layover. Would improve equipment utilization since the current train has excess capacity south of Atlanta but no place to hold equipment for same day turn that Birmingham could provide. There is currently 4.5 hours between the north and southbound trains.

The Montgomery route is relatively flat and should speed up the train. Pre Amtrak the Montgomery route was 1.5 hours faster than today’s Crescent. Of course CSX would want capacity improvements. And I suspect there will be no changes by Amtrak to LD network until the FRA LD programs are implemented - a long time from now.

 

[west point]

A wild card for the near future for any change is the proposed DAL/FTW <> MEI <> ATL. There have been many posts of various configurations and schedules MEI <> ATL that await proposals from the FRA.