Future improvement possibilities for the Downeaster

[Railvt]

The RDC is part of the AllEarth Rail fleet, maintained at Barre, VT. There were I think 12 Budd cars acquired from Dallas TRE service and/or VIA Rail. The hope was Vermont would run a regional service with these cars to compliment the VERMONTER and the ETHAN ALLEN EXPRESS, but neither VTRANS nor the legislature ever showed any real interest there. The Rockland car was on lease from this pool.

The cars have been tentatively sold to the Gaspe Ry in Quebec--IF--a study there shows a regional and tourist/cruise service might work and IF the former CN Gaspe Branch renovations underway since 2012 are finally completed. For now they remain here in Vermont.

These cars were purchased from TRE by wind turbine builder Dave Blittersdorf, along with 8 semi trailers full of parts. Dave had a dream and spent over $5M of his own money on this project, but it was not to be. He resold 3 cars to the Portland Westside Express operation in Oregon, but for now the rest are still here in Vermont. Some photos of the AllEarth fleet at Barre, VT are attached.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I asked this question in another discussion a few minutes ago, but since this is exclusively a Downeaster discussion, let me ask it here. Does anybody know how many Horizon coaches are now in Downeaster service? I've heard as few as one and maybe as many as four. I'm assuming Amtrak is trying to divert Downeaster Amfleets to the recently-voracious Northeast Regionals.

The last downeaster I road was in 2022 - I road it about 5 or six times in the year and a half leading up to then. I never saw a Horizon coach; they were always full amfleet consists.

 

[BlackDiamond]

From what I have seen from FB posts, there seems to be one Horizon car added to some (all?) of the 3 trainsets, not clear how many. So no more than 3 at present. I assume they are testing them out and we will probably see more of them heading north eventually.

 

[fdaley]

When I took Downeaster 682 earlier this month, there was one Horizon coach at the east (north) end of the train, next to the locomotive, which was pushing. Otherwise it was an all-Amfleet consist including the business/cafe car at the west/south end. This was June 11.

 

[jis]

From what I have seen from FB posts, there seems to be one Horizon car added to some (all?) of the 3 trainsets, not clear how many. So no more than 3 at present. I assume they are testing them out and we will probably see more of them heading north eventually.

My understanding is that the Downeaster subfleet is planned to be all Horizon when all is said and done.

 

[Harmon Shay]

All of this is very interesting. Thank you. But by my count, the only way they're going to be able to do that and still have the New Orleans-Mobile service and leave the Cascades and Borealis services intact will be to have no Horizons available to lengthen any Chicago corridor trains. Assuming the Illini and Saluki get that waiver and go Venture, all the Chicago trains are going to be five-car Venture and that will be pretty much it. I think this Amtrak management, though, is definitely prioritizing and encouraging the Northeast Corridor way over literally everything else except perhaps the Cascades, which have powerful political support in the U.S. Senate.

 

[John Bredin]

All of this is very interesting. Thank you. But by my count, the only way they're going to be able to do that and still have the New Orleans-Mobile service and leave the Cascades and Borealis services intact will be to have no Horizons available to lengthen any Chicago corridor trains. Assuming the Illini and Saluki get that waiver and go Venture, all the Chicago trains are going to be five-car Venture and that will be pretty much it. I think this Amtrak management, though, is definitely prioritizing and encouraging the Northeast Corridor way over literally everything else except perhaps the Cascades, which have powerful political support in the U.S. Senate.

The Midwest states (led by Illinois) and California ordered how many Venture cars they ordered, Amtrak management didn't prioritize or de-prioritize diddly. And there may well be options to exercise. I believe the Venture cab cars for the Hiawatha are an addition to the original order.

 

[Harmon Shay]

They were an addition, and they'll certainly be needed.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The two Downeaster train set that I saw last week all cars were Horizons with one Budd car attached I would think it’s a cafe car. They even had the single spare coach sitting in Portland was a Horizons railcar.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The two Downeaster train set that I saw last week all cars were Horizons with one Budd car attached I would think it’s a cafe car.

The cafe/BC car is usually at the South end attached to the NPCU.

 

[Brian Battuello]

I go away for a few weeks and they change everything around. Time for another old orchard beach run.

 

[Harmon Shay]

Thanks for the information on the Horizon Downeasters. It sounds like either Amtrak figures the New Orleans-Mobile service is dead or the Midwest Consortium isn't planning on having any trains longer than five cars, except for axle-count requirements.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Thanks for the information on the Horizon Downeasters. It sounds like either Amtrak figures the New Orleans-Mobile service is dead or the Midwest Consortium isn't planning on having any trains longer than five cars, except for axle-count requirements.

I think that the axle count issue may be resolved - you'll have to dig around but there have been some posts about it.

 

[Harmon Shay]

Last I heard on axle count was that Amtrak has applied to the FRA for a waiver because of the chance that under certain circumstances, the antenna that's been approved by CN (and presumably the other Class Is) to take care of the crossing signal activation problem might occasionally end up a little less than the now-required 2 1/2 inches above the rail. The hope is that the waiver will come soon in order to free up the Illini and Saluki Superliners, plus maybe the four baggage cars that are tied up on the two River Runner sets and perhaps the axle count cars on the San Joaquins and Pacific Surfliners.

 

[Harmon Shay]

I had another thought on the Downeaster situation. I know Amtrak wants to retire the old Metroliner cab cars in the NEC. I wonder if they're using Downeaster Amfleets to do this. I can't see any other way to justify shifting yet more Amfleet I coaches to the Northeast Regionals and the Keystones.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I had another thought on the Downeaster situation. I know Amtrak wants to retire the old Metroliner cab cars in the NEC. I wonder if they're using Downeaster Amfleets to do this. I can't see any other way to justify shifting yet more Amfleet I coaches to the Northeast Regionals and the Keystones.

I thought the HHP-8 conversion to cab car program was supposed to be to replace the ex Metroliner cab cars.
Seems to me taking an ordinary coach and making a cab car out of it would be quite a project, unlike demotoring an existing locomotive.

 

[PVD]

One thing to think about is the automatic doors on the AM-1 which make them better suited than a Horizon for routes that are predominantly high platform. I don't know the Downeaster stations and patterns well enough to know if this is a consideration, but it did cross my mind.

 

[jis]

I thought the HHP-8 conversion to cab car program was supposed to be to replace the ex Metroliner cab cars.
Seems to me taking an ordinary coach and making a cab car out of it would be quite a project, unlike demotoring an existing locomotive.

There is no program to convert any ordinary Coach to a Cab Car.

Basically a bunch of Amfleet Is move to the NEC and Empire Service Pools to release all Amfleet IIs in service there in the Canada trains and the Pennsylvanian and Palmetto for use in single level LD trains to augment their consist. Some Additional Amfleet Is augment NEC consists.

 

[fdaley]

One thing to think about is the automatic doors on the AM-1 which make them better suited than a Horizon for routes that are predominantly high platform. I don't know the Downeaster stations and patterns well enough to know if this is a consideration, but it did cross my mind.

All of the Downeaster stations have high-level platforms. Many are short enough that only a couple sets of doors make the platform.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Horizons don't have linked automatic doors? I've never been on one, so don't know. Seems like since they are newer than the Amfleet II's, they should have all the bells and whistles (or is that the cab car?)

IIRC, having take the Downeaster many times, they only open one or two doors at all stops except Boston and Brunswick, both of which have full platforms. Not sure about Portland.

 

[jis]

Horizons don't have linked automatic doors? I've never been on one, so don't know. Seems like since they are newer than the Amfleet II's, they should have all the bells and whistles (or is that the cab car?)

IIRC, having take the DownEaster many times, they only open one or two doors at all stops except Boston and Brunswick, both of which have full platforms. Not sure about Portland.

Downeasters in their normal operation do not need linked door controls as critically as NEC trains do anyway.

 

[Harmon Shay]

That's not what I meant about replacing the cab cars with Amfleet I coaches. The Amfleet Is, of course, would be used with cab cars or locomotives.

 

[Brian Battuello]

While we're on the subject, if anyone is going to be in the Boston area and would like to do an Old Orchard Beach run, I'm happy to organize and comp the tickets with my zillions of points. Not like I'm going to be using them on a room anytime soon. I even have two late train courtesy tickets...

 

[Harmon Shay]

Maybe Amtrak hears our complaints about way too many long-distance coaches being assigned to non-long-distance trains.

Basically a bunch of Amfleet Is move to the NEC and Empire Service Pools to release all Amfleet IIs in service there in the Canada trains and the Pennsylvanian and Palmetto for use in single level LD trains to augment their consist. Some Additional Amfleet Is augment NEC consists.

 

[Rambling Robert]

I don’t know whether I have ever ridden in a Horizon car but the Amfleet cars on the down Easter are very nice and they have a very euro feel… Comfy.