Gallery cars and high-level platforms.

[MattW]

Is there any reason why bi level gallery cars like METRA, MARC, VRE and Caltrain use couldn't use high-level platforms? If I recall correctly the actual floor height is 48 inches or close to it, so why couldn't they use trap doors over the stairwell? From various pictures I've seen, the new highliners for the South Shore and South Bend NICTD service can serve both high and low level platforms with the trap door arrangement.

 

[John Bredin]

Except that opening and closing traps frequently and in multiple cars would be a pain in the ass significant logistical problem, you're quite right that it could be done.

The Metra Electric route uses high platforms and gallery cars, but because every station on the relatively short route is all-high-platform, the cars have level boarding, no traps, and multiple-unit door control.

Amtrak's Amfleet and Horizon cars have traps, but make fewer stops farther apart than commuter rail does and, at least here in the Midwest, don't open every door at every stop and have a crew-member at every door in use rather than having the conductor remotely open the doors in multiple cars. They also have significantly narrower entryways than most gallery cars -- every gallery car I've seen can exit two or three people abreast versus one at a time on the Amtrak cars -- so that the trap doors are a reasonable size on the Amtrak cars but would be ungainly on a gallery car.

 

[MattW]

So then I'm assuming the South Shore route basically has long segments of low platforms and long segments of high platforms so it's not a mad dash for the crew to open and close? I figured as much, and I guess remote traps would be out of the question from a safety standpoint.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Ryan]

I recall reading that VRE had automatic traps installed in some of it's non-gallery cars. Can't remember where I read it, and have never seen them in operation.

 

[PerRock]

Wouldn't the doors have to be made taller? As currently they are normal height; but set to the bottom step; If you close off the steps, I can just see 80% of the people trying to enter hitting their heads.

The Metra Electric & NICTD Gallery cars have doors set to the floor height, not the bottom step (steps are open).

peter

 

[jis]

Except that opening and closing traps frequently and in multiple cars would be a pain in the ass significant logistical problem, you're quite right that it could be done.

The Metra Electric route uses high platforms and gallery cars, but because every station on the relatively short route is all-high-platform, the cars have level boarding, no traps, and multiple-unit door control.

NJTransit has traps and multiple-unit door controls and does open every door at each station. The thing that makes it work is that the necessity to change from high level mode to low level mode is not that frequent, because typically a line is mostly high level of mostly low level with a few exceptional stations that are of the other mode. Incidentally the doors can be opened and closed with the trap in either position in the current cars. This was not possible in the older cars, where the door had to be opened before the trap could raised for low level platforms.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

NJTransit has traps and multiple-unit door controls and does open every door at each station. The thing that makes it work is that the necessity to change from high level mode to low level mode is not that frequent, because typically a line is mostly high level of mostly low level with a few exceptional stations that are of the other mode. Incidentally the doors can be opened and closed with the trap in either position in the current cars. This was not possible in the older cars, where the door had to be opened before the trap could raised for low level platforms.

Excluding, of course, the few non-NEC trains run with Arrow III units, which can not open the traps with the doors closed. Those trains generally speaking do not open all the doors at all stops. Its usually just the intermediate doors, and usually only one of the pair.

It is fun to watch the crew work on the few places on the line where you have a quick bump between high-low-high. As for instance, Red Bank (high), Little Silver (low), and Long Branch (high) which are only a few minutes apart. Of course, not all doors open at Little Silver (the platform is usually not high enough) and same with Long Branch (the way the trains are usually switched out into the yard precludes all cars platforming).

 

[Acela150]

NICTD???

The new Silverliners in Philadelphia have doors in the middle of the car and the traps are interesting. I don't know how they operate a low level station. But high levels they open the doors and passengers detrain at their will.

Steve

 

[PerRock]

NICTD???

The new Silverliners in Philadelphia have doors in the middle of the car and the traps are interesting. I don't know how they operate a low level station. But high levels they open the doors and passengers detrain at their will.

Steve

NICTD = Northern Indiana Commuter Trasportation District; formerly (and still used some) as the Chicago South Shore and South Bend Railway.

peter

Edit: Not Division but District, my bad.

 

[Acela150]

NICTD???

The new Silverliners in Philadelphia have doors in the middle of the car and the traps are interesting. I don't know how they operate a low level station. But high levels they open the doors and passengers detrain at their will.

Steve

NICTD = Northern Indiana Commuter Trasportation Division; formerly (and still used some) as the Chicago South Shore and South Bend Railway.

peter

Would have never figured that one out! :lol:

 

[jis]

Excluding, of course, the few non-NEC trains run with Arrow III units, which can not open the traps with the doors closed. Those trains generally speaking do not open all the doors at all stops. Its usually just the intermediate doors, and usually only one of the pair.

True, but Arrow IIIs are anything but new.

It is fun to watch the crew work on the few places on the line where you have a quick bump between high-low-high. As for instance, Red Bank (high), Little Silver (low), and Long Branch (high) which are only a few minutes apart. Of course, not all doors open at Little Silver (the platform is usually not high enough) and same with Long Branch (the way the trains are usually switched out into the yard precludes all cars platforming).

With the new long doors the trainmen have the entire ride from one station to another to flip the traps, as opposed to opening the door and then flipping the trap, as was the case in the past OTOH. they have to put the traps down when moving from a low level platform to a high, but again they have the entire inter-station run time to handle that.

Of course where stations have insufficient length of platform e.g. Linden on NEC, naturally all doors cannot open.

 

[Acela150]

Is it me or can most NJT trains fit the entire train on the platform on the NEC. I was at PJC a few months ago and I noticed that some NJT trains can fit the entire platform just the engineers stop short 2-3 sometimes 4 cars long. Any idea why??

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Is it me or can most NJT trains fit the entire train on the platform on the NEC. I was at PJC a few months ago and I noticed that some NJT trains can fit the entire platform just the engineers stop short 2-3 sometimes 4 cars long. Any idea why??

Most platforms on the NEC can take a 10 or 12 car set, but some can not- such as Linden. As for why some cars don't platform, where room is availible, there are multitudes of reasons- the main one likely being that NJT feels a compulsion to run 10 car trains with three cars open on off-peak runs. Avoiding platforming closed cars has benefits, including reducing station dwell time.