Heartland Flyer Versus Car Carrier

[George Harris]

Wonder why the engineer wasn’t on the horn for the crossing.... it doesn’t appear to be a private crossing, nor in an area where you’d expect a quiet zone.

I don't remember there being sound with the video. Even if he blew the horn, blowing the horn would have done nothing toward preventing the collision. After throwing the brake into emergency, the engineer was probably too busy getting himself down and protected from things coming through the windshield, and possibly being thrown around if the train derailed.

Drivers of oversize loads and low center vehicles are supposed to learn where these high spots are located and avoid them. Learning about the phone numbers on the crossing signs should also be part of any professional driver, and for that matter any driver. Is this info included in Driver's Ed classes? It ought to be.

A couple years back the Silver Star did derail from hitting an oversize load that high centered at a crossing. In this case the load was, if I recall correctly, a large transformer, which is like hitting a solid block of steel.

There is a relatively newly built grade crossing not far from where I live that looks like the pavement was ramped up to a top of rail elevation higher than the road profile intended. I have a suspicion when the road profile was established they aimed for the top of tie elevation which is what would show up on the ground topo, forgetting that their target elevation should be top of rail which would be somewhere in the 0.6 to 0.7 feet higher.

 

[Cal]

There is sound in the video, the engineer did blow the horn.


On a completely unrelated note, I feel bad for the other crossing gate, had to see the death of it's partner.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Drivers of oversize loads and low center vehicles are supposed to learn where these high spots are located and avoid them. Learning about the phone numbers on the crossing signs should also be part of any professional driver, and for that matter any driver. Is this info included in Driver's Ed classes? It ought to be.

Not part of any training I have done. We cover a-lot of stuff, but it’s very generic. Winter driving, wet roads, construction zones, and Food safety. However it very nonspecific and experience plays a big part. Make mistakes and learn from them is normal. Last employer had a live instructor and would talk about current events. Current employer we watch videos and past test after. Don’t even get feed back on the wrong answer, just score higher than 80. Something it’s a 4 test exam, other times it a dozen or more questions. When we hire noobies we have trainers but that hit or miss on the level of training.

A car carrier such as the one in this accident can and does go everywhere. So it much harder to have knowledge of a route. GPS helps but far from error free. Easy to put yourself in a bad spot.

 

[frequentflyer]

Another Genesis probably headed to the scrap heap, that had to due some damage to the frame. Its absorb and untold amount of energy. I wonder how the engineer braced himself.

 

[lrh442]

The amount of energy that is involved in such an incident is staggering. And so will be the repair bills and insurance settlements.

How much insurance does a typical commercial truck carry? If the damages exceed the insured amount what happens? Typical liability carried for passenger vehicles would scarcely pay to replace the crossing gates...

 

[ehbowen]

How much insurance does a typical commercial truck carry? If the damages exceed the insured amount what happens? Typical liability carried for passenger vehicles would scarcely pay to replace the crossing gates...

Well, I just tried to look it up. Now I'm going to be getting Google ads for commercial vehicle insurance for the next twenty years...it took me seven pages of results to finally get a partial answer.

It looks like the minimum insurance requirement for an interstate or intrastate carrier hauling general cargo is $750,000 (Hazmat is $5 mil, but I'm pretty sure autos fall under general). As to what happens if damages exceed that amount...well, any aggrieved party is left hung out to dry unless the truck operator has assets. And most all of them run their business to ensure that they have no assets; they lease or finance their trucks, have a minimal physical plant, and the owner(s) shields his (their) personal assets under a corporate structure which limits his liability unless someone can prove personal malfeasance. Which would be pretty hard to do in this case because, although the driver is clearly at fault, it's not like there's ongoing negligence such as the failure to maintain brakes in the CZ grade crossing collision; obviously the driver simply made a stupid mistake.

 

[zephyr17]

How much insurance does a typical commercial truck carry? If the damages exceed the insured amount what happens? Typical liability carried for passenger vehicles would scarcely pay to replace the crossing gates...

It depends on the company. Many large carriers will have excess policies that can handle large amounts.

However, like all insurance, if the limit is exceeded, the insurance company can write a check for the policy limits and walk away with no further duty to defend. That leaves the trucking company holding the bag.

However, in cases such as this, it will pretty much be worked out between Amtrak's, BNSF's, and the trucking company insurance carrier's legal teams. However, if it a small company or owner-operator with low liability limits, their corporate persona will likely have to go bankrupt. If an owner-operator has two brain cells to rub together they'll have shielded themselves from personal liability. Remember, since it is apparently driver error, the trucking company will be liable for the loss of cargo as well, including the flying SUV.

 

[user 1215]

Everything I can see from the video looks like there was no sign with a phone number to call dispatch. A quick google maps search showed me that some in the area have them, others don't. It would have been the fastest way to stop the train, but it's impossible to know how long the truck was stuck on the tracks to know whether calling 911 would have helped or not. Who knows? He could have called 911.

I have used the blue sign to call dispatch once when I was in Georgia. When an Amtrak train crossed, the gates barely got down in time. So I called. They took it very seriously, and I even got a call from the FRA. They didn't find any discrepancy, but they were concerned.

 

[zephyr17]

Everything I can see from the video looks like there was no sign with a phone number to call dispatch. A quick google maps search showed me that some in the area have them, others don't. It would have been the fastest way to stop the train, but it's impossible to know how long the truck was stuck on the tracks to know whether calling 911 would have helped or not. Who knows? He could have called 911.

I have used the blue sign to call dispatch once when I was in Georgia. When an Amtrak train crossed, the gates barely got down in time. So I called. They took it very seriously, and I even got a call from the FRA. They didn't find any discrepancy, but they were concerned.

There are two signal boxes to the right of the grade crossing. It should be on the side of one or the other of those. It often is not a standalone sign. It is not necesarily blue. The ones around me are generally black lettering on a white background on the side of signal boxes. Some are simply stenciled black lettering on the side of the silver signal box.

It is a legal requirement to have such a sign. The resolution isn't such that I can see what is on the signal boxes, nor can I see the sides of the signal boxes not facing the camera.

 

[Triley]

"Bigholing" a train, or performing an emergency stop means dumping the train brake line, which immediately sets all brakes to maximum stopping power.

Had I ever high centered a unit, the first thing I would have done would have been to shunt across the rails with the jumper cables.

The railroads do not publicize this, they have enough issues with vandalism as it is.

I really don’t think that’s a term used anymore, but…

Also, the railroads don’t publicize the availability to trespass and shunt the signals due to vandalism, and yet here it is now found on the internet….Doing the legal thing of calling the dispatcher would be much more ideal.

 

[zephyr17]

I really don’t think that’s a term used anymore, but…

Also, the railroads don’t publicize the availability to trespass and shunt the signals due to vandalism, and yet here it is now found on the internet….Doing the legal thing of calling the dispatcher would be much more ideal.

And remember, shunting the signals with a jumper cable is a Federal felony. Railroad tampering. Two people just got convicted for just that up in Bellingham and face up to 20 year sentences. Though their motivations were quite different, protesting coal trains, the act itself was the same. I imagine they may go lighter with a car stuck on the tracks, but if the sign was there and visible, I am sure the Office of the US Attorney would ask if you even attempted to call the number on the sign before placing a shunt on the tracks.

 

[John Bredin]

And remember, shunting the signals with a jumper cable is a Federal felony. Railroad tampering. Two people just got convicted for just that up in Bellingham and face up to 20 year sentences. Though their motivations were quite different, protesting coal trains, the act itself was the same. I imagine they may go lighter with a car stuck on the tracks, but if the sign was there and visible, I am sure the Office of the US Attorney would ask if you even attempted to call the number on the sign before placing a shunt on the tracks.

(emphasis added)
I'm not sure the bolded assertion is categorically so. The persons you reference were charged (link) and convicted under 18 U.S.C. § 1992 (link) prohibiting terrorism and violence against railroads and mass transportation facilities. Specifically:

Whoever, in a circumstance described in subsection (c), knowingly and without lawful authority or permission *** (5) removes an appurtenance from, damages, or otherwise impairs the operation of a railroad signal system or mass transportation signal or dispatching system, including a train control system, centralized dispatching system, or highway-railroad grade crossing warning signal.

Shunting signals with a jumper cable isn't removing or damaging anything, so it would have to be "impairing" to violate the statutory provision in question. What the people in Bellingham did impaired the proper operation of the signaling system, creating a phantom train to stop trains that the railroad did not intend to stop. However, I would argue that shunting to prevent a collision would not constitute impairing the operation of the signaling system because the railroad would intend its train(s) to stop for a truck stuck on the tracks.

In other words, the Bellingham offenders abused the signaling system, turning it to their own purposes contrary to the railroad's purposes, while someone shunting to prevent a collision would be using the signaling system for one of its intended purposes. In other other words whether something impairs a system inherently depends on what the purposes of the system are, to then answer whether the action in question furthers (stuck trucker with jumper cable, IMHO) or thwarts (Bellingham saboteurs) those purposes.

 

[Ryan]

This appears to be the crossing in question: Addington Bend Rd · Addington Bend Rd, Thackerville, OK 73459

You can only get Google street view from the other side of the tracks from where this collision takes place, but it seems to line up. In this screenshot from Street View, you can see the black mailbox with white stickers for letters and the dumpster as the video taker gets out of their vehicle. You can also see the sign with a phone number to call (it's even blue):

 

[Ryan]

That said, I would agree that placing a shunt to warn of danger isn't going to get you charged with a crime. I do wonder how one is going to clip a set of jumper cables to a rail, there's a decided lack of places that you can clip them on.

 

[frequentflyer]

Amtrak can't catch a break, the video has pretty gone viral, popping up in my Youtube, Yahoo and even Autoblog, a public auto web site. I can't watch it again, I get shivers see that locomotive raise up after contact. Bad things usually follows when that happens.

 

[Triley]

Amtrak can't catch a break, the video has pretty gone viral, popping up in my Youtube, Yahoo and even Autoblog, a public auto web site. I can't watch it again, I get shivers see that locomotive raise up after contact. Bad things usually follows when that happens.

I’ve seen pictures from on-site, and though the engine nose is pretty messed, it was a very VERY minor derailment. Could’ve been so much worse.

Another Superliner coach is out of service though, can you tell you that much.

 

[Cal]

I’ve seen pictures from on-site, and though the engine nose is pretty messed, it was a very VERY minor derailment. Could’ve been so much worse.

Another Superliner coach is out of service though, can you tell you that much.

And the Heartland flyer was already at two coaches.

 

[Triley]

And the Heartland flyer was already at two coaches.

The bigger concern for me would be if it wasn’t the snack/coach, since there’s already such limited quantities out in the wild.

 

[Seaboard92]

The bigger concern for me would be if it wasn’t the snack/coach, since there’s already such limited quantities out in the wild.

I believe the first coach was the snack coach. At least the few times I've ridden the Heartland Flyer the snack coach is always the first one going north.

 

[Cal]

I believe the first coach was the snack coach. At least the few times I've ridden the Heartland Flyer the snack coach is always the first one going north.

Hmm, I thought it was the middle one. But you're probably remembering better than I am.

 

[leccy]

That said, I would agree that placing a shunt to warn of danger isn't going to get you charged with a crime. I do wonder how one is going to clip a set of jumper cables to a rail, there's a decided lack of places that you can clip them on.

My concern would be about how much track is actually track circuited. I should imagine anywhere in dark territory, shorting the tracks wouldn't do anything. Incidentally, this is starting to be an issue in the UK where track circuits are being replaced with axel counters.

 

[cirdan]

What would be the point of such a rule? Delayed breaking risks further injury or death and a rule dissuading employees from saving their own lives would be refused by the union. According to what I was told in general terms the goal is to accurately identify a serious threat, initiate emergency breaking, and brace for impact before collision.

An emergency braking on a passenger train can lead to people falling or being thrown out of their seats with risk of injury.

An engineer needs to weight the risk between injuring passengers and injuring people who may be on the crossing. If a vehicle is clearly abandoned and a strike will thus not cause death or injury it may be wiser to not go into emergency but to do a normal safe stop.

 

[cirdan]

A car carrier such as the one in this accident can and does go everywhere. So it much harder to have knowledge of a route. GPS helps but far from error free. Easy to put yourself in a bad spot.

Maybe this was an excuse back in the 1990s but these days with GPS and whatnot there should surely be a way of punching a button and a message automatically goes to the right quarters.

The problem is that the people doing the safety mandates are about a generation behind.

 

[NSC1109]

Another Genesis probably headed to the scrap heap, that had to due some damage to the frame. Its absorb and untold amount of energy. I wonder how the engineer braced himself.

gennies don’t have frames like other locomotives, but depending on the damage yeah it could be a while if ever. That’s why the P42s have bolt on noses now, easy repair.

And remember, shunting the signals with a jumper cable is a Federal felony. Railroad tampering. Two people just got convicted for just that up in Bellingham and face up to 20 year sentences. Though their motivations were quite different, protesting coal trains, the act itself was the same. I imagine they may go lighter with a car stuck on the tracks, but if the sign was there and visible, I am sure the Office of the US Attorney would ask if you even attempted to call the number on the sign before placing a shunt on the tracks.

that is correct, placing shunt on the track is technically against the law if you’re not a railroad employee and even then we can only do so under certain circumstances in transportation (I don’t know about MoW/Signal).

just call railroad police on the posted ENS sign, they’ll alert the dispatcher, trainmaster(s), etc.

 

[joelkfla]

An emergency braking on a passenger train can lead to people falling or being thrown out of their seats with risk of injury.

An engineer needs to weight the risk between injuring passengers and injuring people who may be on the crossing. If a vehicle is clearly abandoned and a strike will thus not cause death or injury it may be wiser to not go into emergency but to do a normal safe stop.

That's asking a lot of the engineer. The seconds taken to decide whether a vehicle looks abandoned could be the difference between life and death. And if he decides wrongly, it would amplify PTSD.