Help getting on train?

[BCL]

This morning I saw a woman trying to board with a child. I'd say she was mildly obese but still walking pretty well. Mostly she seemed to have brought too much stuff with her. She had luggage and a big shopping bag, while her kid was dragging a piece of rolling kiddie luggage.

This station has a big gap and the platform height is well below the train floor. I've occasionally seen a stool brought out here. She was yelling for assistance. A conductor was about three cars down and just sort of looking at her like she could do it on her own. Others on the platform getting off or waiting for another train were just staring. I think I could have offered to help, but it was just so bizarre that I didn't even move. In the end she just lifted the bags up one at a time and boarded herself fairly easily. The conductor wasn't going to close the doors on her, but it still seemed surreal.

Is there any procedure for this? I'm pretty sure that a blind or wheelchair-bound passenger would get immediate help, but frankly she was capable of doing it herself. I'm guessing it must have gotten interesting when the conductor checked her for tickets.

 

[MikefromCrete]

If you were so concerned, you could have helped.

 

[BCL]

If you were so concerned, you could have helped.

Didn't really think about that until later. In the end she and her kid got on about as easily as anyone else boarding. It just seemed so bizarre since it was pretty obvious she could manage herself, but just seemed to want assistance so she didn't have to let go of her bags.

 

[caravanman]

Sometimes folk will make a fuss because thats what they do in all situations... On the other hand, people can have hidden pains that make movement difficult. My impression from the red cap assistance service at Chicago was that they only assist the minimum of coach passengers, several people were struggling to get about, but there was not enough help for everyone.

Sad to say, but Amtrak employees don't tend to be in the top 10% for helpfull service towards their passengers, with some exceptions.

Ed

 

[SarahZ]

Having both hands full of bags means it's difficult to grab on and pull oneself up onto the first step. When I was heavier, I had knee problems that were exacerbated by climbing stairs. I walked just fine, but I was dependent upon that stair rail to pull myself up and keep weight off my knee. When I traveled alone, if a conductor wasn't there to take my bag (which the Michigan conductors often do in addition to giving you a hand up/down), I had to set the bag on the second step and then pull myself up.

Since a stool is often brought out, that indicates the gap and height ARE an issue for some people, able-bodied or not. Since she had a child with her and an armful of bags, not to mention she was calling for help, I'm irritated that people just stood there and stared at how "bizarre" she was instead of helping. She's a person, not a circus sideshow.

Besides, how do we know she hasn't lost some weight already? Not everyone who is obese "treats their body like a garbage dump". I've lost sixty pounds and exercise regularly, but if you looked at me, you'd probably assume I eat bonbons and watch TLC all day.

 

[neroden]

It's very easy to gain weight due to medication when you've got chronic illnesses. Don't make assumptions when you don't know what's going on, guys.

 

[BCL]

It's very easy to gain weight due to medication when you've got chronic illnesses. Don't make assumptions when you don't know what's going on, guys.

I myself wasn't being judgmental about her weight, but I was thinking that her belief may have been that her weight made it difficult to board. I don't think she really needed any help, but I wondered if there's any policy on providing assistance. After all that drama, she actually got on fairly easily.

 

[crescent2]

Personally, I would not assume that she didn't really need any help, no matter what her body type. I'd have helped her, and I'm surprised that no one did. In my experience, most people are willing and quick to help others, as it should be imo.

In this particular situation, I'd have thought the conductor would have called for an attendant to help a passenger if he or she couldn't personally provide assistance, assuming there was enough time before the lady had boarded on her own.

As for obesity, I know it's a huge (no pun intended) problem in America, but it's impossible to know the cause or circumstances simply from looking at a person.. One of my best friends had a metabolic disorder and had been overweight all her life. She was over six feet tall and weighed close to 300 pounds when she died. She'd been in a long term care facility for several years, totally unable to get out of bed for a year, and was on dialysis and a strict diabetic diet. Her weight problem was obviously not from overeating, certainly not in the final years of her life. The food the healthcare facility provided her was all the food she ate. And if she'd weighed 700 pounds, she was still a kind, generous, loving person and a wonderful friend. 'Nuff said.

 

[BCL]

Personally, I would not assume that she didn't really need any help, no matter what her body type. I'd have helped her, and I'm surprised that no one did. In my experience, most people are willing and quick to help others, as it should be imo.

In this particular situation, I'd have thought the conductor would have called for an attendant to help a passenger if he or she couldn't personally provide assistance, assuming there was enough time before the lady had boarded on her own.

I don't know what the rules are and I couldn't find anything that would suggest that Amtrak personnel are trained to assist passengers boarding who don't have a recognized disability. This was Capitol Corridor, so basically the only staff on the train would be two conductors, the cafe car attendant, and the engineer. The station was unstaffed.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

BCL, did she seem bossy, snippy, unpleasant in her request for help. That would certainly turn some people off for helping her. Plus, maybe the conductor "knows" her and had a good reason to ignore her.

 

[BCL]

BCL, did she seem bossy, snippy, unpleasant in her request for help. That would certainly turn some people off for helping her. Plus, maybe the conductor "knows" her and had a good reason to ignore her.

Maybe a judgement, but I guess yeah - I thought she sounded "whiny". And in the end it was pretty clear that she could physically accomplish getting her bags and her kid on board by herself. It wasn't quite like the Chicago Union Station scene in The Untouchables.

 

[crescent2]

I could have spent most of our 8-hour layover in the Great Hall. Beautiful station; great movie.

 

[guest]

If you were so concerned, you could have helped.

Didn't really think about that until later. In the end she and her kid got on about as easily as anyone else boarding. It just seemed so bizarre since it was pretty obvious she could manage herself, but just seemed to want assistance so she didn't have to let go of her bags.

If she couldn't manage a simple act like that, or created a handicap for herself by overburdening herself (and the train crew and fellow passengers) with excess luggage, then she needs to hire an attendant for herself.

 

[BCL]

In the end, I don't recall that this woman was looking at any bystander on the platform for assistance. She was initially yelling out towards the length of the train like she wanted an Amtrak employee, and it took a while before the conductor came out. By that time, she was yelling towards him for assistance. And I'm not sure what he could have done since I understand that a conductor is assigned to a door. In this case it was a cafe car door that wasn't available for passengers to board/exit

Also - they open nearly all the doors on one side with California Cars, unlike a LD train where doors may have to be opened manually.

 

[BCL]

I'm starting to regret mentioning anything about her weight. It was secondary and only a guess on my part that her weight might have had anything to do with her request for assistance. She was also only carrying a couple of items, but one was pretty big.

My main question was whether or not Amtrak personnel have any duty to assist passengers boarding the train short of obvious cases where someone is disabled or assistance was requested upon making the reservation

 

[neroden]

Disabled people are not required to be obvious and are not required to notify staff in advance, and staff are required to make "reasonable accomodations".

What is a "reasonable accomodation" is a matter of debate. Bringing over a stool or holding an umbrella is almost certainly a "reasonable accomodation"; carrying a heavy bag or giving a heavy person a hand onto a step may not be as it may endanger the staff member.

PS: I believe any passenger can request the use of the mobile lift and the staff are obliged to assist with it.

 

[the_traveler]

Before I started using a walker, at my station (which has a low level platform), I received help from either the conductors or even other passengers. However at no time would I yell and demand help!

 

[Railroad Bill]

Perhaps if we went over and said "is there anything I can help you with mame?", the problem may have been solved. Must be my Midwestern values taught by my mom.

Unfortunately, not much of that going on these days

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I have no problem whatsoever helping fellow pax stow their luggage, get up the steps or pass between cars. I believe it is something called Common Courtesy.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm mostly able bodied ( but these old bones and bod are feeling everyone of my 70+ years) but in 1996 fell on the Ice in WAS and had to wear a walking boot and spend a year in PT and on crutches, using a cane etc I got a too walk a mile in the handicapped shoes so to speak!

After I was off the crutches I continued to travel regularly on planes, trains, buses and automobiles and came to realize how hard it was for those with physical handicaps to just get around most cities!

Since then I've always tried to assist those that request or need help being mobile, as was said, it's just common courtesy and it could happen to you!

 

[tomfuller]

My advice to anyone needing assistance to board a train is to go to the door that has an Amtrak employee next to it. You can always switch cars after the train is moving again if you have to.

Was this train one that doors that open on one side and are controlled by the engineer? If a door is opened at a stop on a Superliner train (by hand) the person that opened it should be there and put down the yellow stool if it is needed. The stool has to be picked up and stowed after the last passenger has boarded.

 

[HAl]

I'm starting to regret mentioning anything about her weight. It was secondary and only a guess on my part that her weight might have had anything to do with her request for assistance. She was also only carrying a couple of items, but one was pretty big.

My main question was whether or not Amtrak personnel have any duty to assist passengers boarding the train short of obvious cases where someone is disabled or assistance was requested upon making the reservation

In general yes. But if the item was very big. Say over 50 lbs. Or appeared to be over 50 lbs, no. You say it was pretty big. Pretty big is subjective but that might have been a reason. If an employee injures themselves lifting a bag they will be subject to discipline.

 

[BCL]

Disabled people are not required to be obvious and are not required to notify staff in advance, and staff are required to make "reasonable accomodations".

What is a "reasonable accomodation" is a matter of debate. Bringing over a stool or holding an umbrella is almost certainly a "reasonable accomodation"; carrying a heavy bag or giving a heavy person a hand onto a step may not be as it may endanger the staff member.

PS: I believe any passenger can request the use of the mobile lift and the staff are obliged to assist with it.

I do understand that if a passenger needs some sort of special assistance, it's recommended that it be requested in advance to help make things go smoother. Another page says that request can be made for assistance even on "unreserved" trains.

http://www.amtrak.com/station-accessibility

Tips for getting assistance at a station

Make a specific request for accessible service: The best way to make sure that you receive the assistance at a station is to make a specific request for assistance when you make your reservation. If you book your trip on Amtrak.com, you can request the use of a station-provided wheelchair to help you get to your train, or assistance from a uniformed Amtrak staff member.

Plan for extra time: To ensure adequate time for assistance, please arrive at the station at least one hour prior to the train departure time.

At stations staffed by Amtrak employees, our personnel will provide assistance to and from the restrooms or with stairs. Courtesy wheelchairs are available at most of our staffed stations, and our larger stations have a passenger service office where you can request assistance.

However, in the case I saw, it seemed really odd. This mom seemed perfectly capable of getting herself, her belongings, and her child up into the train. She didn't mention a disability, and I don't know how any Amtrak employee would be able to determine what "reasonable assistance" is needed without saying something or an obvious need. She had one piece of airline carry-on sized luggage but with a large plastic retail bag draped over it. And the kid had one piece of luggage.

The way it felt to me was similar to someone who insists on a doorman at a business to open the door for her. And when none was present, she's just waiting around until someone would open the door for her rather than just pushing in the door herself.

 

[roadman3313]

The Conductor can come over and help. It really depends on the crew. The following are just my personal perceptions but the Conductors that just stick their heads out of the Café Car doors are generally the less helpful, more lazy ones. They often don't scan tickets at every stop and don't provide help. Most Conductors I've seen on that route are at the passenger doors and do go out and help when requested. One is near the rear and one is near the front and they generally either look out or one may walk the platform or a few car lengths to check if passengers need assistance. A Conductor (I use this term interchangeably for Conductor and Asst. Conductor) is supposed to be the first person out on the platform when passengers are boarding/alighting. Also for them, it is to their advantage to assist generally as it helps expedite the boarding/alighting process and helps minimize longer station dwells. They can help with bags under 50 lbs. and as long as it won't injure them (as that is a disciplinary issue).

With that said... not all conductors at the Café Car doors are lazy. It just means they stayed by their little "office" space instead of going into the passenger cars. The 4 car trains that use the Superliner Coach/Café or Surfliner Café (there are 3, 4-car trains I've seen in the regular rotation with potentially a 4th from time to time) don't have that "office" space for the Conductors so they sit in a regular passenger car in the passenger area. They tend to walk the train at least every stop as they don't have a dedicated space for themselves.

Most Conductors assigned to the route are helpful, however there are a few that don't like to help and only walk the train to do a ticket lifting "sweep" once or twice on the entire route meaning many people boarding/alighting at intermediate stops don't even have their tickets lifted. You would try to seek out the conductors but they stay in that lower left "office" space.

For those who are unfamiliar with the route, the Capitol Corridor doors open automatically when signaled to open by the conductor. They have a control panel that controls the doors. Trains are generally 4-5 cars long with doors opening generally on 3-4 cars (except at selected unstaffed stops where only 1-2 doors open if on the far track).

Again these are just observations from my time commuting. Not all conductors are the same but most I've seen do a very good job on that route and are helpful and friendly (and even social) with their passengers.

 

[BCL]

I'm starting to regret mentioning anything about her weight. It was secondary and only a guess on my part that her weight might have had anything to do with her request for assistance. She was also only carrying a couple of items, but one was pretty big.

My main question was whether or not Amtrak personnel have any duty to assist passengers boarding the train short of obvious cases where someone is disabled or assistance was requested upon making the reservation

In general yes. But if the item was very big. Say over 50 lbs. Or appeared to be over 50 lbs, no. You say it was pretty big. Pretty big is subjective but that might have been a reason. If an employee injures themselves lifting a bag they will be subject to discipline.

I meant "big" as in bulky. It was a large plastic bag that was about the size of those plastic bags that a dry cleaner would use to cover a men's suit. Other than that she seemed to have a carry-on sized bag and lifted her kid's luggage.