Hierarchy between commercial airline crews and ships' crews

[railiner]

I believe the Pan Am Boeing 314 “Clipper” flying boats carried a crew of 13 on long transoceanic flights…
Captain, First Officer, Engineer, Navigator, Radio Operator, and a full relief crew. The cabin crew was a purser, and two stewards. The aircraft could sleep 40 passengers in Pullman style berths, or 74 passengers in day service.
The Engineer or his assistant could crawl thru a passageway thru each wing, and service or repair each engine in flight.

An amazing aircraft that had a brief career rendered obsolete when land planes could make the longer flights, and had runways to support them.

 

[HenryK]

Interestingly, the FAA uses "Pilot in Command" instead of "Captain." I am studying for the Part 107 Unmanned Aerial System certificate and have noticed that.

 

[railiner]

IIRC, the USAF uses “Aircraft Commander”, instead of “Captain”…

 

[cirdan]

Just wondering why on an aircraft the pilot is always automatically the highest in command.

On a ship the helmsman is not typically the same person as the captain.

On Amtrak the conductor is senior to the engineer.

 

[railiner]

Just wondering why on an aircraft the pilot is always automatically the highest in command.

On a ship the helmsman is not typically the same person as the captain.

On Amtrak the conductor is senior to the engineer.

Just my opinion, but the locomotive engineer, being the most responsible and skilled position on a train, should be in charge…

 

[railiner]

Just my opinion, but the locomotive engineer, being the most responsible and skilled position on a train, should be in charge…

IIRC, that’s the way it is on VIA Rail…

 

[Ryan]

Just wondering why on an aircraft the pilot is always automatically the highest in command.

On a ship the helmsman is not typically the same person as the captain.

On Amtrak the conductor is senior to the engineer.

That brings to bear the pilot flying/pilot not flying distinction. Both humans in the front seats are pilots, so the bolded part doesn't make any sense. The "pilot flying" is whichever of the two is operating the aircraft, regardless of rank or seniority. The "pilot not flying"... isn't. Even if they are senior.

On a ship, they dynamic changes because of the length of the voyage - the Captain (who isn't always a Captain)/Master can't physically be present on the bridge 24/7, so you have the concept of the Officer of the Deck (US Navy)/Officer on Watch (civilian mariners) that is on watch on the bridge and is specifically entrusted by the CO/Master for the term of their watch (typically 3-6 hours). Those duties (looking out the windows, talking on the radio, watching the radar, supervising the nav/quartermaster team) are wholly incompatible with actually standing at the wheel and physically steering (with some notable exceptions on newer ships).

 

[Dakota 400]

The Engineer or his assistant could crawl thru a passageway thru each wing, and service or repair each engine in flight.

I never knew that! Wow! That is rather like today on ships that have Azipods. If needed, a crew member can get into the interior of the pod to service or repair it.

 

[MARC Rider]

When they started Space Force there was a discussion about whether the should use Naval ranks or Air Force ranks. In the end, they used Air Force ranks, which makes sense, because Space Force was just hived off the Air Force, and they don't fly any space ships, anyway.

On the other hand, the Starship Enterprise has a Captain and a First Officer, and they use naval ranks. But they're fictional.

 

[jis]

On the other hand, the Starship Enterprise has a Captain and a First Officer, and they use naval tanks. But they're fictional.

Just out of curiosity ... what are naval tanks?

 

[HenryK]

Naval tanks are fictional, too.

 

[MARC Rider]

Naval tanks are fictional, too.

One could consider the USS Monitor to be a "naval tank," no?

 

[MARC Rider]

Just out of curiosity ... what are naval tanks?

Oh, I thought I had fixed all those typos. Well, it's fixed now.

 

[ScottR]

Naval tanks are fictional, too.

Well you‘ve got quite few! I used to have to go in and inspect them during my Navy days! List of Important and Not-So-Famous Tanks on a Ship Didn’t much care for the CHT tank….but needed a look every now and then as we didn’t want THAT one leaking.

 

[WWW]

Moving this back into the center of discussion:
The Amtrak Conductors and cabin crew wear uniforms - nothing fancy - no stripes - but certainly functional to recognize them.
Now as for the Engineers - no more of the pinstripe jumpsuits with floppy cap head gear at least as far as I can observe.
Like the pilots of aircraft - you will see little of them ensconced in their own private office space.

In this day and age the captain's of industry don't always wear a suit coat and tie - more like jeans and denim shirt - such is
the work from home presentation.

So it is only fitting that the Conductor; the Master of the Train wear a fitting uniform to show who is in charge although he
is not really running the train per se that is having hands on the throttle !

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts pertaining to GPS and navigation have been moved out of this thread to its own thread:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/gps-and-navigation.81865/
Please direct posts on GPS and navigation to this new thread, and preserve this thread for discussing hierarchy and ranks of operating crew on various transport modes.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[Ryan]

Please direct posts on GPS and navigation to this new thread

What form of navigation device should I use to get to that thread?

 

[jis]

Finger