Ideas for reducing NEC trip times

[cirdan]

Lastly, one issue that impacts trip time is that there is no sense of urgency with Amtrak trains. We spend billions to save a minute or two, but if focused on training the Amtrak staff to run their station stop procedures like an elite commuter agency would, they would save 1,2,3,4+ minutes per stop without changing a darn thing to infrastructure.

There are also soft time savings. Just streamlining the boarding procedure (and stop pretending you're an airline) would take several minutes off effective end-to-end journey times at a considerably lower cost than squeezing the same minutes out of infrastructure and schedules.

 

[BlackDiamond]

No one has mentioned it (though it may not even be a problem), but what about the different power systems? North of New Haven is newer ~25 year old catenary built to 60hz standards, but south of NH is much older (~90 year old) catenary built to 25hz standards. Does the older catenary/power standard affect speed at all?

More the catenary structure itself than the power standard. The older variable tension catenary design does limit speeds. With modern multi voltage/ frequency locomotives the 25hz power is less of an issue. In Europe they use 16.7Hz catenary at high speeds e.g. Germany.

 

[MARC Rider]

There are also soft time savings. Just streamlining the boarding procedure (and stop pretending you're an airline) would take several minutes off effective end-to-end journey times at a considerably lower cost than squeezing the same minutes out of infrastructure and schedules.

What boarding procedure slows things down? Except at the terminals, passengers are already on the platform when the train comes in, and at New York they have to line people up in the concourse because the platforms are narrow. It's true that the long-distance trains running on the NEC have long station stops because the coach attendants are fussing with assigning seats on the platform, but that doesn't happen with the Northeast Regionals or Acelas. The one thing they could do is have assigned seating on all trains with the car numbers clearly marked on the platforms so people can position themselves and line up in the right place to quickly board the train when it comes in. They do that on the Acela already, and I've experienced very short station stops as a result.

 

[cirdan]

What boarding procedure slows things down? Except at the terminals, passengers are already on the platform when the train comes in,

For the passenger, avoidable delays don't begin when the train draws into the platform, but they begin when the passenger arrives on the station sites and any obstacles to getting onto the platform may kick in.

It seems to me that many multiple millions are spent to shave just a few minutes off schedules, but inefficiencies in passenger handling are just accepted as a necessary evil.

It seems to me there is a lack of holistic thinking here.

 

[user 13416]

What boarding procedure slows things down? Except at the terminals, passengers are already on the platform when the train comes in, and at New York they have to line people up in the concourse because the platforms are narrow. It's true that the long-distance trains running on the NEC have long station stops because the coach attendants are fussing with assigning seats on the platform, but that doesn't happen with the Northeast Regionals or Acelas. The one thing they could do is have assigned seating on all trains with the car numbers clearly marked on the platforms so people can position themselves and line up in the right place to quickly board the train when it comes in. They do that on the Acela already, and I've experienced very short station stops as a result.

Many NER stops, especially south of WAS, have low platforms and only one or two doors open, and passengers have to climb down the narrow, steep steps to the platform, and then boarding passengers have to climb up. It takes a long time to board this way. Even between WAS-PHL, not all doors open at all stops. All the time I hear them announce "Only exit at the Cafe Car". High platforms would shorten the RVR stop from the current 10-15 minutes down to 1-2 minutes.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Many NER stops, especially south of WAS, have low platforms and only one or two doors open, and passengers have to climb down the narrow, steep steps to the platform, and then boarding passengers have to climb up. It takes a long time to board this way. Even between WAS-PHL, not all doors open at all stops. All the time I hear them announce "Only exit at the Cafe Car". High platforms would shorten the RVR stop from the current 10-15 minutes down to 1-2 minutes.

I just got back from Italy and rode their HSP rail. All stations in Italy had low platforms. It didn't take more than a couple of minutes for passengers de-board and board with the exception of major stations.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I just got back from Italy and rode their HSP rail. All stations in Italy had low platforms. It didn't take more than a couple of minutes for passengers de-board and board with the exception of major stations.

Italy is a train culture, and generally a MUCH more physically fit culture (obesity rate of 12% vs 40% in America), with people having knowledge and ability to do low platforms. Its a small point, but I think it matters.

Being obese and having to climb onto trains with luggage will take time.

Boarding trains in Italy is kind of a pain in the butt - level boarding is a good thing that every rail system worldwide should strive for.

 

[daybeers]

The permanent indoor steps common on modern European HSTs are much easier to navigate than the steep, bare metal fold-down steps on Amfleets.

Level boarding should definitely be a goal everywhere, but low-level platforms aren't all created equal.

 

[George Harris]

Just reread the whole chain. I have several thoughts, but will not put them all in one post.

Duration of time doors are open: After quite a few years in Asia and being a regular rider of Metros in Taipei and Hong Kong and lesser times in Singapore in Japan I went to San Francisco and became a semi regular rider of BART. From my first trip on BART after getting on, my thought was, "OK, we are all on, now close the doors already." For no discernable reason it seems the door open time on BART was somewhere over twice the norm in Asia. Cannot comment on door open times on transit in the Northeast, since I was last there before regularly riding metros in Asia, and have not been back in the Northeast since returning from Asia, and probably won't be in that part of the country ever again. As to the door open time on Amtrak: In the high platform areas, ALL doors should be opened at ALL stops. There is no real need for them to have an attendant. For the low platform stations, the time saved by having more people to have more doors open would be well worth it, and announcing stations and door positions in advance should be a no-brainer. This is a management issue.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Italy is a train culture, and generally a MUCH more physically fit culture (obesity rate of 12% vs 40% in America), with people having knowledge and ability to do low platforms. Its a small point, but I think it matters.

Being obese and having to climb onto trains with luggage will take time.

Boarding trains in Italy is kind of a pain in the butt - level boarding is a good thing that every rail system worldwide should strive for.

I would also like to point out the seats on Amtrak NER and Acela are roomier and more comfortable than the Frecciarossa high speed train. There is more leg room as well and the bathrooms are also much larger on Acela and Amfleet coaches. I prefer the Amfleet café car to Frecciarossa café which is similar to the Acela café car.

While Amtrak is known worldwide for having remarkably comfortable seats, even in coach, I found the Frecciarossa seats to be perfectly adequate.

Can’t say I necessarily agree on cafe cars however - but terrible train food in the US plays more a role than it should…

I’ve noticed this too.
Doors on the MBTA and other agencies are open for an absurdly long time, while in Asia, door are really open only as long as needed, even with additional platform doors or gates.

I did not find the Frecciarossa seats adequate for travel longer than 3 hours in 2nd class. Legs were cramped and seats were hard and did not recline. Business class was a little better on Frecciarossa but still inferior to Amfleet coach seats. I didn't think the cafe' food on Frecciarossa train was anything to write home about or emulate here in the U.S. Also many intercity high speed trains in Italy have no café' car.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I would also like to point out the seats on Amtrak NER and Acela are roomier and more comfortable than the Frecciarossa high speed train. There is more leg room as well and the bathrooms are also much larger on Acela and Amfleet coaches. I prefer the Amfleet café car to Frecciarossa café which is similar to the Acela café car.

While Amtrak is known worldwide for having remarkably comfortable seats, even in coach, I found the Frecciarossa seats to be perfectly adequate.

Can’t say I necessarily agree on cafe cars however - but terrible train food in the US plays more a role than it should…

Just reread the whole chain. I have several thoughts, but will not put them all in one post.

Duration of time doors are open: After quite a few years in Asia and being a regular rider of Metros in Taipei and Hong Kong and lesser times in Singapore in Japan I went to San Francisco and became a semi regular rider of BART. From my first trip on BART after getting on, my thought was, "OK, we are all on, not close the doors already." For no discernable reason it seems the door open time on BART was somewhere over twice the norm in Asia. Cannot comment on door open times on transit in the Northeast, since I was last there before regularly riding metros in Asia, and have not been back in the Northeast since returning from Asia, and probably won't be in that part of the country ever again. Asto the door open time on Amtrak: In the high platform areas, ALL doors should be opened at ALL stops. There is no real need for them to have an attendant. For the low platform stations, the time saved by having more people to have more doors open would be well worth it, and announcing stations and door positions in advance should be a no-brainer. This is a management issue.

I’ve noticed this too.
Doors on the MBTA and other agencies are open for an absurdly long time, while in Asia, door are really open only as long as needed, even with additional platform doors or gates.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

To s

While Amtrak is known worldwide for having remarkably comfortable seats, even in coach, I found the Frecciarossa seats to be perfectly adequate.

Can’t say I necessarily agree on cafe cars however - but terrible train food in the US plays more a role than it should…

I’ve noticed this too.
Doors on the MBTA and other agencies are open for an absurdly long time, while in Asia, door are really open only as long as needed, even with additional platform doors or gates.

Similar with NJT and Amtrak. To sum this theme up, there is absolutely no sense of urgency from the train staff across the country with boarding/departing.

We spent $500mm to save 70 seconds of travel time on the NEC by increasing the top speed on the NB to Trenton section, but we give it all back by sitting at the next station for minutes at a time long after boarding has completed.

These trains should be operated much more similarly to the NYC’s MTA—doors should be closing on people much more often rather than being completely sure that everyone is settled.

If that’s uncomfortable, too bad it’s time to hustle.

 

[west point]

Absolutely no reason to go for 200 MPH. A lot less can be spent removing slow sections of track to at least 100 and then 150 - 160. Frankford - North PHL has several big slow sections with some 60 MPH still. That for example and there are even some scheduled slower sections south of PHL to be eliminated.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

To s

Similar with NJT and Amtrak. To sum this theme up, there is absolutely no sense of urgency from the train staff across the country with boarding/departing.

We spent $500mm to save 70 seconds of travel time on the NEC by increasing the top speed on the NB to Trenton section, but we give it all back by sitting at the next station for minutes at a time long after boarding has completed.

These trains should be operated much more similarly to the NYC’s MTA—doors should be closing on people much more often rather than being completely sure that everyone is settled.

If that’s uncomfortable, too bad it’s time to hustle.

Maybe they put too much padding in schedules in the US and these trains are waiting for scheduled departure time?

 

[MARC Rider]

Just reread the whole chain. I have several thoughts, but will not put them all in one post.

Duration of time doors are open: ... Cannot comment on door open times on transit in the Northeast, since I was last there before regularly riding metros in Asia, and have not been back in the Northeast since returning from Asia, and probably won't be in that part of the country ever again.

For the Washington Metro, some time after 2009 when they started having all sorts of various malfunctions, they also started taking forever to close the doors. There was also an issue of people trying to board as the doors were closing, which would cause the doors to reopen and further delay the train.

Now I'm noticing delays on closing the doors in Boston and New York, too.

 

[MARC Rider]

To s

Similar with NJT and Amtrak. To sum this theme up, there is absolutely no sense of urgency from the train staff across the country with boarding/departing.

We spent $500mm to save 70 seconds of travel time on the NEC by increasing the top speed on the NB to Trenton section, but we give it all back by sitting at the next station for minutes at a time long after boarding has completed.

These trains should be operated much more similarly to the NYC’s MTA—doors should be closing on people much more often rather than being completely sure that everyone is settled.

If that’s uncomfortable, too bad it’s time to hustle.

Maybe all those Marine Corps style Drill Instructors working as OBS in the dining cars should be reassigned to work the NEC platforms getting passengers to hustle on board the trains.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Maybe all those Marine Corps style Drill Instructors working as OBS in the dining cars should be reassigned to work the NEC platforms getting passengers to hustle on board the trains.

I remember back in the early days of Amtrak (1974-79) when most of the employees were ex-NYPenn on the Northeast corridor. The conductors back then had no problem hustling people on and off the train in a timely matter. Some would say they were rude.

 

[daybeers]

Maybe they put too much padding in schedules in the US

That's for sure.

In my experience, Amtrak Keystone and NEC trains as well as MNRR and CTrail trains run a tight ship when it comes to dwell time: those doors are closing right at the top of the minute, as it should be. Life moves too fast to do anything else IMO. I don't have enough experience with other commuter rail agencies to judge.

I remember someone on another thread retelling the behavior of Brightline passengers not even getting up out of their seat or collecting their belongings until the train came to a complete stop. I guess they're just used to airplane travel, but man, regular commuters or a conductor on a delayed train further up the east coast might make a remark at such behavior

 

[Literalman]

When I was commuting on Virginia Railway Express, I would hear announcements telling passengers to remain in their seats until the train stopped. This was really bad advice for people getting off at Quantico, Woodbridge, or other intermediate stations in the morning, because if those passengers weren't ready to get off as soon as the doors opened, they would be like salmon swimming upstream against the passengers boarding the train and would be lucky to get off before the doors closed. I don't ride the Northeast Corridor or Keystones that often but I'm sure I've heard announcements telling people to gather their belongings and head for a door where they see a uniformed conductor (or, more likely on the Corridor, gather their belongings and all doors should open).

 

[PaTrainFan]

I don't ride the Northeast Corridor or Keystones that often but I'm sure I've heard announcements telling people to gather their belongings and head for a door where they see a uniformed conductor (or, more likely on the Corridor, gather their belongings and all doors should open).

Exactly! I ride the Pennsylvanian a few times a year and this is their standard announcement. It's irresponsible.

Because they don't say which doors will open people are often left to panic rush through cars to find a "uniformed crew member" and an open door.

 

[railiner]

On the LIRR, they make several announcements warning passenger's such as: "The last four cars will not platform at Forest Hills" etc....so passengers have fair warning to move to a car that will.