In prep for Service Start Amtrak Test Train Rumbles into Roanoke

[jis]

It is actually happening - slowly but surely.

Amtrak started qualifying and training activities in preparation for introduction of service to Roanoke later this year.

http://www.roanoke.com/business/news/roanoke/amtrak-test-train-rumbles-into-downtown-roanoke/article_63327a5b-c69b-5c2d-822a-11855fd8612a.html

 

[City of Miami]

Clearly it is an extension of the present regional instead of a second opposing frequency as we heard about 3-4 yrs ago that VA was paying for. I wonder if this retrenchment has to do with the maxed out facilities in CVS. I heard Amtrak has said no 2nd regional until CVS has a larger station. Hard to see now this can ever happen.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

This is what I need to get to 611, as well as another bit of route to ride. Exciting that something is actually getting done! Looking forward to convincing my dad to take our next trip to Roanoke. Are tracks being upgraded for passenger speeds, or will the speeds stick to slower than 79 for most of the route.

 

[Triley]

Clearly it is an extension of the present regional instead of a second opposing frequency as we heard about 3-4 yrs ago that VA was paying for. I wonder if this retrenchment has to do with the maxed out facilities in CVS. I heard Amtrak has said no 2nd regional until CVS has a larger station. Hard to see now this can ever happen.

As far as I know it's as planned thus far. One train per day to start, a second to be added later?

 

[west point]

Did someone else mention that CVS station is big enough but presently only part is available ?

 

[jis]

Are we talking of the size of the station building available to Amtrak at CVS? The main building of course is quite big and houses a restaurant or something like that. But clearly it will be quite a bit of work to make the Amtrak area larger.

 

[looshi]

Well the bigger issue is that the building is privately owned. Amtrak is just a tenant. So it's not as easy as just making the Amtrak portion larger.

Amtrak is pushing for a public entity to buy the building like many of the other stations in the state.

 

[west point]

Thanks for the refresher on the CVS station. Where exactly in the "L" shaped building is Amtrak located ? Does it require a long walk for say Cardinal passengers. Does Cardinal usually foul NS during its station stops ?

 

[jis]

Thanks for the refresher on the CVS station. Where exactly in the "L" shaped building is Amtrak located ? Does it require a long walk for say Cardinal passengers. Does Cardinal usually foul NS during its station stops ?

The answer is "No" and "No".

See: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlottesville+Station/@38.0314616,-78.4939997,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b3863bd15a7eb7:0x4b2b61a870eb84c0!8m2!3d38.0314574!4d-78.491811

The NS route is top right corner (direction Manassas) to bottom left corner (direction Lynchburg).

The CSX/BBRR route is bottom right direction (Orange/Manassas) to middle left (direction Clifton Forge).

Actually, the walk is a little longer to the NS Platform than to the CSX/BBRR platform.

 

[Anderson]

Clearly it is an extension of the present regional instead of a second opposing frequency as we heard about 3-4 yrs ago that VA was paying for. I wonder if this retrenchment has to do with the maxed out facilities in CVS. I heard Amtrak has said no 2nd regional until CVS has a larger station. Hard to see now this can ever happen.

As far as I know it's as planned thus far. One train per day to start, a second to be added later?

For legal reasons VA has to have a train terminate in LYH for the next 20-30 years (or has to pay the feds back for the money used to get the Lynchburger rolling). My understanding is that the second train will be coming in a year or two (I've generally heard 2019 as the projected start date), that train will be going only as far as LYH for now, and that'll be a morning down/evening up train (which has been called for in the region for a while).

 

[blueman271]

Clearly it is an extension of the present regional instead of a second opposing frequency as we heard about 3-4 yrs ago that VA was paying for. I wonder if this retrenchment has to do with the maxed out facilities in CVS. I heard Amtrak has said no 2nd regional until CVS has a larger station. Hard to see now this can ever happen.

As far as I know it's as planned thus far. One train per day to start, a second to be added later?

For legal reasons VA has to have a train terminate in LYH for the next 20-30 years (or has to pay the feds back for the money used to get the Lynchburger rolling). My understanding is that the second train will be coming in a year or two (I've generally heard 2019 as the projected start date), that train will be going only as far as LYH for now, and that'll be a morning down/evening up train (which has been called for in the region for a while).

Does Virginia plan to start a second train to Norfolk as well?

 

[Carolina Special]

The CVS Amtrak station and parking lot is currently owned by Union Station Partners, LLC, according to the Charlottesville property tax records. The LLC appears to be historically run by a couple of developers, one of whom lived in C-Ville until he died in 2013 and the other who lives in San Francisco. The LLC address is in SF. The developers have done other projects in Charlottesville.

The station including the restaurant (Wild Wing Café) is presently appraised at $3.5 million and the parking lot at $2.0 million. Doesn't mean the LLC would sell for that, but that's the city appraisal. The developers were asking $13.5 million for the (unpaved and shabby) parking lot back in 2010 to put up an office building: they finally gave up that fantasy and paved the lot under heavy pressure from the city.

Since the surviving SF developer will turn 71 this year, there may be a window to get something done if someone can come up with the right amount of money. Presumably only the city or UVA could pull that off as public institutions, IMO.

We would need to find another convenient location for Wild Wing Café as part of the process, of course.

 

[snvboy]

E-M-I-N-E-N-T D-O-M-A-I-N.

And I've never met a person here in the 'ville that's actually been to Wild Wings, and it boggles my mind that they don't open in the morning for at least coffee and breakfast sandwiches when there are like 150 people milling around the platform waiting for 2-3 trains that come through within a couple hours of each other.

 

[Carolina Special]

Wild Wings did use to be my favorite wings place, at least until Wings Over Charlottesville came to town (bigger wings, preferred sauce).

I do agree Wild Wings is missing out by not providing early morning service for the trains. I've wondered about trying to grab an order for the Lynchburger on weekends when they open at 11, but the timing is too tight for an on time train.

 

[Seaboard92]

I've used the wild wing when I had PVs running via CVS. I've convinced them to bring stuff out train side so all I have to do is pop my trap, hand the money over, button the trap up, and chow down.

 

[west point]

it boggles my mind that they don't open in the morning for at least coffee and breakfast sandwiches when there are like 150 people milling around the platform waiting for 2-3 trains that come through within a couple hours of each other.

Makes one wonder if owner / upper management is absent and not fully aware of the potential sales. Restaurant friend mentioned that the on site manager may not want to take the extra time at the restaurant. Some one may need to by pass manager and go to the owner ?

 

[railiner]

E-M-I-N-E-N-T D-O-M-A-I-N.

And I've never met a person here in the 'ville that's actually been to Wild Wings, and it boggles my mind that they don't open in the morning for at least coffee and breakfast sandwiches when there are like 150 people milling around the platform waiting for 2-3 trains that come through within a couple hours of each other.

Sounds like a good opportunity for a food truck operator to exploit....

 

[Anderson]

Clearly it is an extension of the present regional instead of a second opposing frequency as we heard about 3-4 yrs ago that VA was paying for. I wonder if this retrenchment has to do with the maxed out facilities in CVS. I heard Amtrak has said no 2nd regional until CVS has a larger station. Hard to see now this can ever happen.

As far as I know it's as planned thus far. One train per day to start, a second to be added later?

For legal reasons VA has to have a train terminate in LYH for the next 20-30 years (or has to pay the feds back for the money used to get the Lynchburger rolling). My understanding is that the second train will be coming in a year or two (I've generally heard 2019 as the projected start date), that train will be going only as far as LYH for now, and that'll be a morning down/evening up train (which has been called for in the region for a while).

Does Virginia plan to start a second train to Norfolk as well?

Yes, VA does. I forget what the timeline is on this, but that's definitely in the cards. IIRC the state owns the slot but the trackwork hasn't been completed yet. The yard at Norfolk can park three trainsets, IIRC.

The CVS Amtrak station and parking lot is currently owned by Union Station Partners, LLC, according to the Charlottesville property tax records. The LLC appears to be historically run by a couple of developers, one of whom lived in C-Ville until he died in 2013 and the other who lives in San Francisco. The LLC address is in SF. The developers have done other projects in Charlottesville.

The station including the restaurant (Wild Wing Café) is presently appraised at $3.5 million and the parking lot at $2.0 million. Doesn't mean the LLC would sell for that, but that's the city appraisal. The developers were asking $13.5 million for the (unpaved and shabby) parking lot back in 2010 to put up an office building: they finally gave up that fantasy and paved the lot under heavy pressure from the city.

Since the surviving SF developer will turn 71 this year, there may be a window to get something done if someone can come up with the right amount of money. Presumably only the city or UVA could pull that off as public institutions, IMO.

We would need to find another convenient location for Wild Wing Café as part of the process, of course.

I'm not quite sure what the best way to handle this site is (especially since if we were to get a second daily train to/from LYH, a daily Cardinal, and potentially the third daily train that's rumored to be in the long-term cards the site seems rather insufficient for that...especially in terms of parking). On the one hand, I think there's a strong case for an on-site restaurant (though one might make a rather solid case for pressing them to be open for breakfast, there's a counter that a strange set of circumstances have resulted in the Lynchburger's cafe making money); on the other, Amtrak probably needs basically the entire building at this point.

If it weren't for historical preservation and if it were clear that CVS was going to wind up with about 5x daily trains (the Crescent, the Cardinal, and 3x Regionals) within some sort of timeframe, I'd be inclined to suggest a total overhaul of the site with more parking (probably a parking deck of some kind), retaining a full-service on-site restaurant, and expanding the station building. FWIW my best guess is that if you went to a full 5x daily trains and were able to relieve the supply limits on the Cardinal, CVS would probably be hitting 250-300k pax/yr...and 175 parking spaces doesn't quite cut it for that even accounting for bus transfers.

 

[City of Miami]

.and 175 parking spaces doesn't quite cut it for that even accounting for bus transfers.

With all due respect I think that is 20th century thinking. I cannot imagine that in the distant future when CVS might have 5 daily trains, automobiles as we currently know them will continue to be the norm and current parking requirements will persist. To me that is building infrastructure for the past, not the future.

 

[Anderson]

.and 175 parking spaces doesn't quite cut it for that even accounting for bus transfers.

With all due respect I think that is 20th century thinking. I cannot imagine that in the distant future when CVS might have 5 daily trains, automobiles as we currently know them will continue to be the norm and current parking requirements will persist. To me that is building infrastructure for the past, not the future.

(1) We're heading for 3.5/day in the next 2-3 years (2 Regionals, 1 Crescent, and .5 Cardinals). Really all I'm looking at with that is another Regional (or Regional-ish) train and a daily Cardinal. I can see the additional Regional happening in the next ten years (there's a lot of pressure for another morning train aimed at getting into WAS in a timely manner for a full workday).

(2) I would agree with you if CVS were a major city station. The issue is that it's a smaller city without much transit, and it has a large non-urban catchment area (the latter point restricting the ability to cut parking needs via Uber).

 

[jis]

I think for the next ten to twenty years having parking facility at rural or semi-urban train stations is going to be critical for success. Just cleverly calling it twentieth century thinking in an apparently derogatory way does not change that reality much.

 

[west point]

LYH and CVS are rather unique. Neither is a large population center but the drive on US-29 cannot match the present train times. What might help is an afternoon train to WASH say on the Cardinal's schedule White Sulphur Springs WV <> WASH. That would be very similar to the Hoosier trips. 7day a week late afternoon schedule to WASH and morning from WASH, Just one train set. Then if successful make the whole Cardinal daily.

 

[IndyLions]

LYH and CVS are rather unique. Neither is a large population center but the drive on US-29 cannot match the present train times. What might help is an afternoon train to WASH say on the Cardinal's schedule White Sulphur Springs WV <> WASH. That would be very similar to the Hoosier trips. 7day a week late afternoon schedule to WASH and morning from WASH, Just one train set. Then if successful make the whole Cardinal daily.

That's a good idea. The combination of Cardinal & Hoosier State gives us in Indy a daily train, which makes scheduling easy to remember and we use the train more (despite the slow schedule).

Less than daily service is a nightmare to try to use. For example - getting my VA attending college age student home on the Cardinal is a pain in the neck. The day she's ready to come home never seems to match up with the day the train is running. We manage - but a couple times she had to take the CL and we had to drive to South Bend to get her home.

Until the Cardinal goes daily it wouldn't help us any - but I'm sure the CVS crowd would greatly appreciate additional service to/from WAS in the mean time.