Is PTC killing scanner use?

[DennisInGeorgia]

I really enjoy taking my scanner on train trips. We get to hear about “issues” early on and we enjoy the back-and- forth with conductors snd the head end, for example. I have frequencies for my trains from On Tack/Online loaded in my scanner, changing them each time I change trains. It’s great fun. But lately I’ve wondered if the advent of PTC is making the use of radios by train crews not as necessary. Is enough info being passed by the PTC gear to make scanner traffic less common? I live next to a NS main and monitor their road channel and I’m hearing absolutely nothing. I can hear NOAA weather on that channel without a problem. Has anyone else noticed any big reductions in scanner voice traffic?

 

[John Bobinyec]

I'm guessing that the assigned radio frequencies in your area have been changed.
jb

 

[railiner]

Modern technology can render radio voice communication obsolete in many cases. ACARS has cut down a lot of that in aviation. More will probably follow.
I am surprised somewhat that they haven't gone into encrypted voice, for "security" issues. Maybe not deemed worth the cost? But if they do, it will kill the scanner business.

 

[jis]

Early analog mobile phones transmited unencrypted voice over clear channel. Anyone with a capable enough scanner could evesdrop on virtually any conversation!. Of course all of that got fixed with encrypted digital channels, frequency hopping and such.

 

[John Bobinyec]

The reason that I'm guessing that the assigned frequencies have simply been changed is that it happened recently on the NS between Greensboro, NC, and Charlotte, NC. NS didn't spend any money on encrypted digital channels or frequency hopping, etc... It just assigned a different frequency. And it still requires the engineer to call out the signal on the radio and the conductor to repeat it back on the radio.

jb

 

[Eric in East County]

As of last week, the radio channels for the Pacific Surfliner, Southwest Chief and Capitol Limited were all working fine.

 

[neroden]

No, they still use the voice channel. Some lines they're really, really quiet, particularly noticeable on the Amtrak-dispatched Empire Corridor south of Albany, where they say absolutely nothing except in emergencies. Other lines, like CSX, they call all the signals, so you hear more.

 

[jis]

As of last week, the radio channels for the Pacific Surfliner, Southwest Chief and Capitol Limited were all working fine.

Do we know what the new frequencies are. Have they been updated on the OTOL frequency lists?

 

[TinCan782]

From home, still listen to Metrolink Ventura Line, Pacific Surfliner, Coast Starlight trains near home. Also, a couple of defect detectors near here and an occasional UP train. Engineers still call signals and conductors respond. There is still some train to dispatcher talk when needed.

Just last week I heard #14 call an emergency after it struck a trespasser (non-fatal) near Chatsworth.

As for encryption, don't think it will happen anytime soon on the road channels - too much to coordinate between different railroads and territories. Amtrak PD in Los Angeles is still "in the clear".

My scanner is still an essential for my rail travel!

 

[jis]

In normal operation on the NEC the radio channels are pretty much silent. Only in unusual and emergency situation they seem to get a lot of use. Even Form-Ds are now transmitted electronically through ACSES, so even that chatter is gone in extraordinary circumstances. And of course there has never been any signal calling on the NEC for decades, and indeed block signals are slowly disappearing leaving only Home signals, and those are all enforced by ACSES. Of late I don’t know to what extent dragging equipment and hot box detectors communicate elctronically vs. talking on the air. I suspect there is use to talking on the air when something goes wrong since it alerts every one around in one fell swoop.

 

[daybeers]

I bring my scanner on every trip, even if it's a short trip on the NEC. It's true that you can't hear much on it, but if something goes wrong, you'll be an information treasure trove for yourself and other passengers, especially if the OBS isn't communicating much. On some routes, it's fun to hear conductors counting down the length to stop the train at stations, ex. "2 cars, 1 car, 50 feet, 20, 10, you're good." Some others radio the engineer when the station work is complete and the train is ready to depart.

As was said, some lines call out all the signals to the dispatcher and some automated hot box/equipment defect detector transmit over the radio, with some engineers acknowledging verbally with the milepost while others acknowledge with a simple on/off of the transmit button.

 

[NorthShore]

A tactic to find potential radio traffic would be to enter a search range with the assigned railroad band as limits. The scanner will roll through the entirety of this range (which isn't much, around 2 Mhz) repeatedly, and stop if it senses sound. There's no guarantee you will catch traffic, as it could be brief, but that's likely your best change at finding new active frequencies.

 

[Eric in East County]

Do we know what the new frequencies are. Have they been updated on the OTOL frequency lists?

The Pacific Surfliner, Southwest Chief and Capitol Limited were, as of last week, using the same frequencies they've used for years.

 

[Eric in East County]

If you pause your scanner on the channel currently in use, keep in mind that frequencies will change during the trip. Just from San Diego to Los Angeles, Pacific Surfliner trains use three different frequencies before switching to the “Disney Channel” (i.e. Los Angeles Union Station’s primary frequency.) The OTOL frequency lists for each train should indicate where the frequency changes occur and what the new frequency will be.

Also, be sure you haven’t inadvertently locked out the frequency currently being used. I did that recently and, after not hearing anything for a time, realized what had happened. As soon as the frequency was unlocked, radio traffic started to be received again.

 

[zephyr17]

Yeah, I've done that. When coming up on channel rollover, I'll scan both frequencies and when I hear the train I'm on on the new frequency I'll lock out the old one so I don't hear it, particularly to block weak, sqawky transmissions from the old area as we leave it behind.

Then the next time through I wonder why I am not getting any transmissions on the channel I locked out .

 

[user 14106]

I rode the Pennsylvanian a couple times in the last year and I had found out the frequencies on the NS Pittsburgh line had changed from what I had on my scanner. OTOL did not have the new frequencies till the second trip. That line fairly recently took all the block signals down and went to cab signals without waysides - only home signals - this was done as part of implementing PTC and on their cab signaled lines they integrated the cab signals with PTC. For some reason at the same time they changed radio frequencies for most of it. They do still call the home signals on the radio and the engineer will also report if the cab signal reduces to a lower aspect under NS’s rules. You’ll also hear all the defect detectors.

As already indicated The NEC and metro north lines (and really Amtrak dispatched lines in general) is where you hear the least - they do not call any signals and the defect defectors on the corridor don’t speak at all if there are no defects. Only routine radio talk is at station stops and where they switch frequencies - otherwise you don’t hear anything unless there’s an issue or they have to talk to the dispatcher. My local line New Haven - Springfield is similar although the two defect detectors do talk along it.

 

[railiner]

A tactic to find potential radio traffic would be to enter a search range with the assigned railroad band as limits. The scanner will roll through the entirety of this range (which isn't much, around 2 Mhz) repeatedly, and stop if it senses sound. There's no guarantee you will catch traffic, as it could be brief, but that's likely your best change at finding new active frequencies.

One problem sometimes encountered with using the 'search' feature is the search stopping on so-called "birdies". You then have to manually continue the search each time, or turn up the squelch control, which could also cause missing weaker transmissions.

Some newer scanners automatically will stop when detecting a strong nearby transmission. Useful if you don't know any frequencies....

 

[Eric in East County]

I rode the Pennsylvanian a couple times in the last year and I had found out the frequencies on the NS Pittsburgh line had changed from what I had on my scanner. OTOL did not have the new frequencies till the second trip. That line fairly recently took all the block signals down and went to cab signals without waysides - only home signals - this was done as part of implementing PTC and on their cab signaled lines they integrated the cab signals with PTC. For some reason at the same time they changed radio frequencies for most of it. They do still call the home signals on the radio and the engineer will also report if the cab signal reduces to a lower aspect under NS’s rules. You’ll also hear all the defect detectors.

As already indicated The NEC and metro north lines (and really Amtrak dispatched lines in general) is where you hear the least - they do not call any signals and the defect defectors on the corridor don’t speak at all if there are no defects. Only routine radio talk is at station stops and where they switch frequencies - otherwise you don’t hear anything unless there’s an issue or they have to talk to the dispatcher. My local line New Haven - Springfield is similar although the two defect detectors do talk along it.

In the past, whenever I asked conductors what channels/frequencies they were using, they always gave them to me. One reason why OTOL frequencies are not up to date is probably because fewer railfans with scanners have been traveling recently. Hopefully this situation will change now that people are traveling again.