Is Simplified Dining Service now used on the EB?

[Henry Kisor]

Judging from stray comments, it seems to me that Simplified Dining Service is now used on the Empire Builder. Is that so?

 

[jis]

Judging from stray comments, it seems to me that Simplified Dining Service is now used on the Empire Builder. Is that so?

No

 

[jmbgeg]

Judging from stray comments, it seems to me that Simplified Dining Service is now used on the Empire Builder. Is that so?

No

Correct. No.

 

[Henry Kisor]

Thank you for the terse answers.

Now, if I might venture another question: Exactly how does the dining car operation on the EB differ from those on the other LD trains?

 

[AlanB]

The EB uses real glassware for plates, bowls, and cups. The EB has 3 people working the kitchen and typically 3 Service Attendants working the dining area in addition to the LSA. And the EB tends to cook a bit more of the menu choices fresh, instead of re-heating pre-plated meals in a convection oven.

Most other trains use plastic plates, etc. and there is 1 to 2 cooks in the kitchen depending on the passenger load, and usually 2 SA's max, plus the LSA.

 

[PerRock]

So in fact the EB is more in the complete other side of things when it comes to food.

peter

 

[Steve4031]

My biggest irritation with the diner on the eb is lunch reservations. The LSA does not do them consistently. And if you are in the portland sleeper you have to be in the car adjacent to the diner I'd you want first seating for lunch. If you don't do this you are wait listed. This is far from fc service.

 

[EB_OBS]

Keep in mind though, that during the winter season when temperatures in Montana and North Dakota are well below zero, the Empire Builder does frequently have to use plastic. It's unfortunately common for the water pipes and the dishwasher to fail in extreme cold and necessitate switching to plastic plates, bowls and cups. Switching to plastic forks, spoons is the absolute last resort.

Also, when the sleeping car passenger counts drop considerably during the off-peak season, then there will only be two SAs and the LSA. Some other trains will drop down to only one SA.

Gradually SDS is going away thankfully. It's become apparent to Amtrak that the cost of plastic ware, capable of standing up to the riggers of high-power microwaves added to the cost of 200% to 300% increase in garbage disposal was more than the cost of the Food Specialist. Additionally, the SDS use of plastic in the dining car was never really well received by passengers.

The Auto-train never went to SDS. The Empire Builder never FULLY switched to SDS. As of today I know the Coast Starlight is using glass-ware again and I know one other train has also switched back but I don't remember which train it is.

 

[Trogdor]

As of today I know the Coast Starlight is using glass-ware again and I know one other train has also switched back but I don't remember which train it is.

Capitol Limited.

 

[Anderson]

The Cap's switched back? That's good news...I'll look forward to that on my Christmas trip.

 

[Ryan]

Sweet, I'll look forward to that on Friday.

 

[TraneMan]

Gradually SDS is going away thankfully. It's become apparent to Amtrak that the cost of plastic ware, capable of standing up to the riggers of high-power microwaves added to the cost of 200% to 300% increase in garbage disposal was more than the cost of the Food Specialist. Additionally, the SDS use of plastic in the dining car was never really well received by passengers.

I was kinda shocked to see the plastic plates/bowls used on our trip, and I was thinking, Ok, having these plastic plates adds up in cost of buying, and throwing them away..

 

[Anderson]

Gradually SDS is going away thankfully. It's become apparent to Amtrak that the cost of plastic ware, capable of standing up to the riggers of high-power microwaves added to the cost of 200% to 300% increase in garbage disposal was more than the cost of the Food Specialist. Additionally, the SDS use of plastic in the dining car was never really well received by passengers.

I was kinda shocked to see the plastic plates/bowls used on our trip, and I was thinking, Ok, having these plastic plates adds up in cost of buying, and throwing them away..

I'm wondering how much Amtrak is saving through this move. I know there's a cost savings associated with it (this was brought up in the Zephyr report, and eliminating the plastic throw-away stuff is a green tout for Amtrak, too), but I'm wondering what it comes to per-year once the initial purchase is written down...sooner or later, dishes do get broken, glasses go into the aisle on bad track, etc., so there's some loss over time. Does anybody have an idea what the per-year savings would be? How about the total savings over 10 or 20 years?

 

[AlanB]

Gradually SDS is going away thankfully. It's become apparent to Amtrak that the cost of plastic ware, capable of standing up to the riggers of high-power microwaves added to the cost of 200% to 300% increase in garbage disposal was more than the cost of the Food Specialist. Additionally, the SDS use of plastic in the dining car was never really well received by passengers.

I was kinda shocked to see the plastic plates/bowls used on our trip, and I was thinking, Ok, having these plastic plates adds up in cost of buying, and throwing them away..

I'm wondering how much Amtrak is saving through this move. I know there's a cost savings associated with it (this was brought up in the Zephyr report, and eliminating the plastic throw-away stuff is a green tout for Amtrak, too), but I'm wondering what it comes to per-year once the initial purchase is written down...sooner or later, dishes do get broken, glasses go into the aisle on bad track, etc., so there's some loss over time. Does anybody have an idea what the per-year savings would be? How about the total savings over 10 or 20 years?

I rather doubt that Amtrak is actually saving money with the plastic plates; that was never the point of putting on plastic. The Food service budget however was saving money by cutting that assistant cook position. Garbage gets charged to a different budget, so those costs didn't eat up the savings by eliminating the assistant cook.

Yes, it was rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while the ship was still sinking, but at least it helped Amtrak meet the congressional mandate to cut the food service losses. It didn't help the overall bottom line, and it even reduced revenue from the dining cars, but SDS helped to satisfy the stupid micro-management mandate from Congress. No one benefited, but Congress was made happy!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

My biggest irritation with the diner on the eb is lunch reservations. The LSA does not do them consistently. And if you are in the portland sleeper you have to be in the car adjacent to the diner I'd you want first seating for lunch. If you don't do this you are wait listed. This is far from fc service.

When I was on the eb to and from the AU gathering lunch was first come first serve like breakfast. Only dinner was done by reservation.

 

[EB_OBS]

My biggest irritation with the diner on the eb is lunch reservations. The LSA does not do them consistently. And if you are in the portland sleeper you have to be in the car adjacent to the diner I'd you want first seating for lunch. If you don't do this you are wait listed. This is far from fc service.

When I was on the eb to and from the AU gathering lunch was first come first serve like breakfast. Only dinner was done by reservation.

Yeah, on the Empire Builder reservations are only done for dinner. Reservations for lunch was tried for two weeks about two years ago but it just didn't work.

 

[Anderson]

My biggest irritation with the diner on the eb is lunch reservations. The LSA does not do them consistently. And if you are in the portland sleeper you have to be in the car adjacent to the diner I'd you want first seating for lunch. If you don't do this you are wait listed. This is far from fc service.

When I was on the eb to and from the AU gathering lunch was first come first serve like breakfast. Only dinner was done by reservation.

Yeah, on the Empire Builder reservations are only done for dinner. Reservations for lunch was tried for two weeks about two years ago but it just didn't work.

It's a somewhat random split. No reservations on the Zephyr, yes on the SWC, not on the Capitol Limited...

 

[user 1215]

Any way of figuring how the EB does in diner revenue vs expense as compared to a similar line like the CZ or the SWC? Seeing as the latter two have reduced service vs the EB, it'd be interesting to know which loses less money.

 

[PaulM]

Gradually SDS is going away thankfully. It's become apparent to Amtrak that the cost of plastic ware, capable of standing up to the riggers of high-power microwaves added to the cost of 200% to 300% increase in garbage disposal was more than the cost of the Food Specialist. Additionally, the SDS use of plastic in the dining car was never really well received by passengers.

I was kinda shocked to see the plastic plates/bowls used on our trip, and I was thinking, Ok, having these plastic plates adds up in cost of buying, and throwing them away..

First law of bean counting: count the costs that are easy to count. Ignore those that are tough to count. It's easy to count the cost of 1 Food Specialist, therefore ...

 

[Anderson]

Gradually SDS is going away thankfully. It's become apparent to Amtrak that the cost of plastic ware, capable of standing up to the riggers of high-power microwaves added to the cost of 200% to 300% increase in garbage disposal was more than the cost of the Food Specialist. Additionally, the SDS use of plastic in the dining car was never really well received by passengers.

I was kinda shocked to see the plastic plates/bowls used on our trip, and I was thinking, Ok, having these plastic plates adds up in cost of buying, and throwing them away..

I'm wondering how much Amtrak is saving through this move. I know there's a cost savings associated with it (this was brought up in the Zephyr report, and eliminating the plastic throw-away stuff is a green tout for Amtrak, too), but I'm wondering what it comes to per-year once the initial purchase is written down...sooner or later, dishes do get broken, glasses go into the aisle on bad track, etc., so there's some loss over time. Does anybody have an idea what the per-year savings would be? How about the total savings over 10 or 20 years?

I rather doubt that Amtrak is actually saving money with the plastic plates; that was never the point of putting on plastic. The Food service budget however was saving money by cutting that assistant cook position. Garbage gets charged to a different budget, so those costs didn't eat up the savings by eliminating the assistant cook.

Yes, it was rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while the ship was still sinking, but at least it helped Amtrak meet the congressional mandate to cut the food service losses. It didn't help the overall bottom line, and it even reduced revenue from the dining cars, but SDS helped to satisfy the stupid micro-management mandate from Congress. No one benefited, but Congress was made happy!

Oh, I know they're not. I was referring to saving money through using the china and glassware returning.

 

[Henry Kisor]

Thanks to all for their inclusive and interesting answers. I can draw one conclusion: Food service aboard Amtrak's LD trains is constantly evolving, if not exactly improving in leaps and bounds. In my opinion, even mediocre meals taste a lot better when served on genuine china and napery.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Thanks to all for their inclusive and interesting answers. I can draw one conclusion: Food service aboard Amtrak's LD trains is constantly evolving, if not exactly improving in leaps and bounds. In my opinion, even mediocre meals taste a lot better when served on genuine china and napery.

Although I would love to have a finer dining experience such as that on VIA's Candian, I don't expect to ever see that sort of service in the world's largest economy. However, all Amtrak has to do to wow me in the diner is improve the quality, freshness, and taste of the food itself. I can live with the cheap plastic plates and thin paper "tablecloths" and such. One of the freshest and tastiest meals I ever ate on board an Amtrak train was a sidewalk seller's burrito wrapped in nothing but aluminum foil. Nothing about that experience let me down one bit and I've raved about it for nearly a year now. I know there are many reasons for how things became the way they are but I also refuse to believe Amtrak is incapable of matching the quality and freshness of a lowly sidewalk seller.

 

[MrFSS]

One of the freshest and tastiest meals I ever ate on board an Amtrak train was a sidewalk seller's burrito wrapped in nothing but aluminum foil.

How did the aluminum foil taste? Is that what gave it the flavor. :lol: :lol:

 

[Henry Kisor]

Just had an interesting exchange about Amtrak dining cars with a recently retired Amtrak executive high in the Washington hierarchy. It turns out that *some* precooked and packaged items ARE served in the Empire Builder diners, although most entrees indeed are cooked to order, especially breakfast eggs and dinner steaks. Some of the precooked (it's called "sous vide") cuisine is apparently so tasty that most palates can't tell it from freshly cooked. So that is that. This thread has made me hungry and I am tempted to ride the Builder to Minneapolis just for dinner.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Just had an interesting exchange about Amtrak dining cars with a recently retired Amtrak executive high in the Washington hierarchy. It turns out that *some* precooked and packaged items ARE served in the Empire Builder diners.

I'm absolutely shocked that Amtrak would serve precooked meals as part of it's premier long distance dining experience.

Most entrees indeed are cooked to order, especially breakfast eggs and dinner steaks.

On the Sunset and the Eagle you can get your eggs any way you want them. So long as you want them poured from a carton and scrambled. :lol:

Some of the precooked (it's called "sous vide") cuisine is apparently so tasty that most palates can't tell it from freshly cooked. So that is that. This thread has made me hungry and I am tempted to ride the Builder to Minneapolis just for dinner.

For those who are not yet aware, sous-vide is a cooking technique that vacuum seals raw ingredients in plastic bags so that they can be cooked in heated water at a much lower temperature for a much longer duration than usual. The goal is to provide extremely even cooking, to prevent natural juices and oils from escaping, and to limit alteration of the natural flavors during the cooking processes. This unique cooking method usually employs specialized hardware and requires careful monitoring of the cooking process in order to prevent potentially harmful or even life threatening results. Sous-vide is sometimes selected by upmarket chefs in order to promote new appreciation for the natural flavor and texture of the ingredients. Apparently Aramark is attempting to use some form of the sous-vide process as a workaround to address the dryness and blandness typical of precooked frozen foods, which seems like such a waste to me, but maybe it works better than it sounds.

I can't pass any specific judgement as I've never ridden the EB, but if and when I do is it possible to get a list of which specific items are prepared this way and which specific items are made fresh?

Do any of them exist on other trains?