Issues with an SCA

[Just-Thinking-51]

So just as a follow up what happen. This per me, and how I recalled it.

The SCA was getting dinner orders and had handed me a menu. She was taken the order from room across from me. When I got the phone from the parents either she just turn to my compartment or shortly after. I was closing the door to block the outside noise when talking to my mother. I handed the menu back to the SCA. When she comment “I guess you don’t want to eat.” I was busy asking if my mother if was ok at this time. After addressing the issue with my mother. I when to hunt down the SCA I knock on her door and then she said “I was inconveniencing her” so I head back to my compartment. She follow to get my order. I am not a picky order, and truly don’t care about the details. So there was a bit of “I don’t care just circle one.” Which is sometimes a problem at restaurants, and sometimes not a problem. This completely set her off again. This is when she when to get the conductor to remove me from her car. The conductor was based out of NY and does not work these trains much. But was very nice and helpful. I later had to get more help from him to get a dinner slot. The “I can’t look up from my device LSA” stated only the SCA could get me a food and a time. The NY conductor when back to the sleeper and ask me to stay in my room #1. Then came back and was told to head for dinner at 6:30. At 6:30 “the can’t look up from my device” LSA and SA just did nothing. So I head for the Lounge car to grab some grub. Which of course was closed for Washington DC engine change. You could not hear the announcement in the sleep. Other IC announcement from other cars could be heard just not the cafe car. As I headed back the NY conductor offer to help, I declined. I knew at this point I was in the dog house with this crew. I when back to my compartment and lock the door, pulled the curtain and stayed there into I jump off a stop early just to avoid the SCA again.

That my recall of the event. No my behavior has not pretty, but I was completely blown away with this SCA. So very much surprised at 24 year veteran of Amtrak was so unbelievably inflexible. Still wonder why the LSA did not get the order and time of service. Too busy on her device it seem.

Anyways hang out at Mickey house with the sister family. Trying to figure out how we’re going to implant a tracking device to the parents. Both are in the 80s, and been very spicy. You know the spice, the one that give you heart burn.

 

[Steve4031]

Maybe Apple AirTags on their keys?

 

[Railroad Bill]

Hope you are getting a chance to relax in Mickeytown. Sorry you had such a negative experience on the train.
I remember the fun times we had in Fort Worth/Dallas Gathering when we missed the train to Grapevine. Thought that would be stressful, but you & I had a great chat at the Subway and a later train ride to catch the others in Grapevine. Wishing you the best. RRB

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don’t fault the SCA for not being able to read minds, and I do not expect her to immediately understand every situation, but her job is to work around the customer’s needs. Nothing that has been said, implied, or intimated would warrant losing access to included meals or being kicked out of “her” car. If this was one of the premier Asian airlines with a history of calm and accommodating service I might be suspicious of the passenger’s actions but decades of riding Amtrak leads me to give the passenger the benefit of doubt here. I am disinclined to say this single event is worthy of being fired but it absolutely should result in meaningful disciplinary action and a period of probation to confirm the employee has learned their lesson. Hopefully a substantial credit is requested, provided, and recorded in the employee’s record. Best of luck to the OP.

 

[n3rdg1rl]

So much of this and other stories like this could be easily prevented if there was an actual supervisor on board! All they really need is to have one senior/more experienced staff member that is promoted to supervisor on each train. You don't need ANOTHER person, but one more qualified person that is also in charge of OTA. There's no sense of responsibility because they know every issue is going to be the passenger's word against the staff's word. And the answer from Amtrak is always, "We're so sorry that it happened. Here's some compensation," and then to the staff, "Don't do it again," I'm sure.

 

[zephyr17]

and then to the staff, "Don't do it again," I'm sure.

I'm not. I kind of don't think it even gets back to the staff member unless and until they get a large pile of documented complaints within a relatively short time. It really appears to me it has to get so bad it literally cannot be ignored before anything will be done.

The "it's our train, we can do what we want" culture of free range OBS staff seems quite deeply embedded. Management for years appears to have paid little attention and certainly is not focused on customer service quality as a corporate priority. The proof is in the product.

Introducing an onboard position equivalent to VIA's Service Managers would be a good first step, but only one step. It has to be backed up as a priority at all levels with a sustained focus over years. The current customer (lack of) service culture has developed over decades and will take years of sustained effort to undo.

Amtrak needs at least an EVP in charge of Service Quality, empowered to change things, with at least all OBS management and crafts reporting to them. Their background should be in a hospitality industry such as hotels, cruise lines or theme parks, not railroad operations or financial. They must be an outside hire (unless they are named Brian Rosenwald).

 

[trimetbusfan]

I'm not. I kind of don't think it even gets back to the staff member unless and until they get a large pile of documented complaints within a relatively short time. It really appears to me it has to get so bad it literally cannot be ignored before anything will be done.

The "it's our train, we can do what we want" culture of free range OBS staff seems quite deeply embedded. Management for years appears to have paid little attention and certainly is not focused on customer service quality as a corporate priority. The proof is in the product.

Introducing an onboard position equivalent to VIA's Service Managers would be a good first step, but only one step. It has to be backed up as a priority at all levels with a sustained focus over years. The current customer (lack of) service culture has developed over decades and will take years of sustained effort to undo.

Amtrak needs at least an EVP in charge of Service Quality, empowered to change things, with at least all OBS management and crafts reporting to them. Their background should be in a hospitality industry such as hotels, cruise lines or theme parks, not railroad operations or financial. They must be an outside hire (unless they are named Brian Rosenwald).

And imagine all the people that are not on this forum that have had bad SCAs…

 

[Everydaymatters]

I have meet the poster. He is NOT a jerk. He's very nice and as his reply to your mean comment says, he was under a lot of stress. He probably was just not giving the SCA the attention she seemed to insist on from him at that time.

Like many of us here, I also have met him. He is a very friendly person. The SCA should have moved on when it was obvious he was stressed.

 

[OBS]

I'm not. I kind of don't think it even gets back to the staff member unless and until they get a large pile of documented complaints within a relatively short time. It really appears to me it has to get so bad it literally cannot be ignored before anything will be done.

The "it's our train, we can do what we want" culture of free range OBS staff seems quite deeply embedded. Management for years appears to have paid little attention and certainly is not focused on customer service quality as a corporate priority. The proof is in the product.

Introducing an onboard position equivalent to VIA's Service Managers would be a good first step, but only one step. It has to be backed up as a priority at all levels with a sustained focus over years. The current customer (lack of) service culture has developed over decades and will take years of sustained effort to undo.

Amtrak needs at least an EVP in charge of Service Quality, empowered to change things, with at least all OBS management and crafts reporting to them. Their background should be in a hospitality industry such as hotels, cruise lines or theme parks, not railroad operations or financial. They must be an outside hire (unless they are named Brian Rosenwald).

You are correct. Most issues like this, reported to management, get an eye roll and then the report goes in the trash. Rarely, usually if a tree in corporate was rattled, will it even be mentioned to the employee.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Introducing an onboard position equivalent to VIA's Service Managers would be a good first step, but only one step.

When I was a kid, the Amtrak OBS chief smoothed over a terrible dining car issue with my mom and let us order comp meals in the cafe car for the rest of the trip. (The LSA scolded my mom for wanting a baked potato and a salad for dinner… “we only serve full dinner in the dining car” )

However… in modern times I’ve seen similar positions on VIA and Alaska Railroad not really make a difference with the quality of service provided on the train. I’m not sure if it would make a difference on Amtrak these days.

 

[Amtrak709]

I'm not. I kind of don't think it even gets back to the staff member unless and until they get a large pile of documented complaints within a relatively short time. It really appears to me it has to get so bad it literally cannot be ignored before anything will be done.

The "it's our train, we can do what we want" culture of free range OBS staff seems quite deeply embedded. Management for years appears to have paid little attention and certainly is not focused on customer service quality as a corporate priority. The proof is in the product.

Introducing an onboard position equivalent to VIA's Service Managers would be a good first step, but only one step. It has to be backed up as a priority at all levels with a sustained focus over years. The current customer (lack of) service culture has developed over decades and will take years of sustained effort to undo.

Amtrak needs at least an EVP in charge of Service Quality, empowered to change things, with at least all OBS management and crafts reporting to them. Their background should be in a hospitality industry such as hotels, cruise lines or theme parks, not railroad operations or financial. They must be an outside hire (unless they are named Brian Rosenwald).

zephyr17: I am so much in agreement with your post and I especially like the "It's our train, we can do what we want" phrasing of the culture. I would bet that if you could transport yourself this minute today right now in history on board any random Amtrak train currently operating in the system and encountered every single employee (not the T&E crew probably), you would find a least one member of staff with "it's my train" attitude. Every single operating train!!! The resulting confrontations that were hear about is when a passenger openly challenges this attitude. Nothing in life is perfect and I realize that I personally have become somewhat cynical of Amtrak operations over the past years. What is sad to me is that, as a real passenger railfan with 65 years and 375,000 rail miles; and considering the high costs of the sleepers I love, I am not sure I want to patronize Amtrak any more. Not so much that I have encountered that employee with the aforementioned attitude on every trip, but it is my concern that the probability it is going to happen to me is real and great.

 

[jis]

zephyr17: I am so much in agreement with your post and I especially like the "It's our train, we can do what we want" phrasing of the culture. I would bet that if you could transport yourself this minute today right now in history on board any random Amtrak train currently operating in the system and encountered every single employee (not the T&E crew probably), you would find a least one member of staff with "it's my train" attitude. Every single operating train!!! The resulting confrontations that were hear about is when a passenger openly challenges this attitude. Nothing in life is perfect and I realize that I personally have become somewhat cynical of Amtrak operations over the past years. What is sad to me is that, as a real passenger railfan with 65 years and 375,000 rail miles; and considering the high costs of the sleepers I love, I am not sure I want to patronize Amtrak any more. Not so much that I have encountered that employee with the aforementioned attitude on every trip, but it is my concern that the probability it is going to happen to me is real and great.

There is a reason that I try to form a quick first impression of each Amtrak employee I encounter on a trip, and unless I discern good vibes I avoid any interaction like the plague. It is just not worth the energy and aggravation, service be damned. I am yet to come across an airline where I have had to employ this approach even though airlines have their own share of under performers.

 

[Amtrak709]

There is a reason that I try to form a quick first impression of each Amtrak employee I encounter on a trip, and unless I discern good vibes I avoid any interaction like the plague. It is just not worth the energy and aggravation, service be damned. I am yet to come across an airline where I have had to employ this approach even though airlines have their own share of under performers.

jis: Thanks for the reply. Great advice. Even though I have expressed cynicism about Amtrak on this forum lately, nothing is going to keep me away from the passenger trains. I really want to go visit my daughter in Seattle. In the sleepers and in a bedroom. When I hit the lottery, I'll probably drive over to Jacksonville or Savannah and start my trip on the Meteor. You know a $1 Play4 or Cash4 win on the Florida or Georgia Lotter might cover the cost??!!

 

[zephyr17]

There is a reason that I try to form a quick first impression of each Amtrak employee I encounter on a trip, and unless I discern good vibes I avoid any interaction like the plague. It is just not worth the energy and aggravation, service be damned. I am yet to come across an airline where I have had to employ this approach even though airlines have their own share of under performers.

I pretty much do the same thing.

 

[zephyr17]

However… in modern times I’ve seen similar positions on VIA and Alaska Railroad not really make a difference with the quality of service provided on the train. I’m not sure if it would make a difference on Amtrak these days

While I cannot speak to the Alaska Railroad, I've ridden it once in the 1980s and once about 2006, I ride VIA quite a bit and in "modern times" (assuming my last trip in March/April 2022 would be considered "modern times"). VIA's onboard service is better and much more consistent than Amtrak's. The worst VIA attendant I've ever run into was about at the lower end of average when measured on Amtrak scales, basically didn't pay much attention to the car. No one has ever come close to displaying the kind of attitude described here and so many of us have experienced onboard Amtrak. The general stance of OBS crews on VIA is typically polite, cheerful and helpful. There is nothing like the variance, generally trending towards sullen, that is Amtrak's YMMV hallmark.

The biggest single observable difference in VIA and Amtrak's staffing model is the presence of the Service Manager as the supervisor of all OBS personnel. I may be wrong, but I cannot help but think the presence of engaged onboard supervision makes a difference. But it has to be backed up by policy and managerial support up the line past the train itself.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

While I cannot speak to the Alaska Railroad, I've ridden it once in the 1980s and once about 2006, I ride VIA quite a bit. VIA's onboard service is better and much more consistent than Amtrak's. The worst VIA attendant I've ever run into was about at the lower end of average when measured on Amtrak scales, basically didn't pay much attention to the car. No one has ever come close to displaying the kind of attitude described here and so many of us have experienced. The general stance of OBS crews on VIA is typically polite, cheerful and helpful. There is nothing like the variance, generally trending towards sullen, that is Amtrak's YMMV hallmark.

The biggest single observable difference in VIA and Amtrak's staffing model is the presence of the Service Manager as the supervisor of all OBS personnel. I may be wrong, but I cannot help but think the presence of engaged onboard supervision makes a difference.

You’ve certainly ridden VIA more than me and I do agree that I’ve yet to see anyone on VIA as bad as the worst I’ve seen on Amtrak. But I’ve seen some pretty poor customer service on VIA as well, one being borderline discriminatory towards a French speaking patron I was seated with in the diner but that may be a “friendly” Canadian rivalry? Haha.

If it takes an extra employee to make the service “average” - is the extra employee worth it?

 

[zephyr17]

If it takes an extra employee to make the service “average” - is the extra employee worth it?

Judging by my experiences on VIA versus Amtrak, which are often back to back (one way on VIA, the other on Amtrak), I would say it is more than worth it. As I said in my earlier post, the proof is in the product.

 

[joelkfla]

I had xxxxx on a trip on the Star back in June. Middle aged blonde woman, right? She's the one who swore Amtrak didn't stock Kleenex, and gave me a dirty look when I gave her a $5 tip which she didn't deserve. I was hoping she'd be gone by now.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Many times when these issues come up, I have said we need to bring back the Crew Chiefs! I know a retired person who was a Crew Chief back in the day. He told me he chewed out his entire crew because of their attitudes. He told them they "have the greatest job in the world".
My first LD trip was on the SWC in coach. What a nice experience! There was bingo hosted by the Crew Chief in the dining car and I won a steak dinner! IIRC that was around 1987.
Another poster said something along the lines of the TE having good crews. Based on my trip to SAS last year, that is true. I wonder why?

 

[MARC Rider]

How much would it cost to hire OBS crew chiefs? You really only need them on the long-distance trains:

LSL
SS
SM
CL
CRSCNT
CONO
TE
EB
CZ
SWC
SL
CS

That's 12 trains. I guess you would need one supervisor for each crew on each train. Not sure how many crews the trains require to cover all of the shifts they run. I could see it being a couple to a few million dollars for added labor costs. Perhaps one way to cut costs is to have a smaller number of OBS supervisors who are randomly (or not so randomly if there are problem crews) assigned to different trains, so the crew never knows when a supervisor might be boarding the train. Another possibility is to promote one of the OBS as the supervisor, but also have them do their regular OBS duties.

The regional/corridor trains don't really need these because, at most they only have one OBS, the cafe car attendant.

 

[jis]

The crew chief issue at Amtrak has always been deeply entangled in Management-Union disagreement, and it has had less to do with the issue of hiring someone, until the Mica anti-mandate of course. In the first place it was discontinued because of the aforementioned disagreement AFAIR.

 

[Steve4031]

Some crew chiefs were good. But they traveled and worked with the same group of employees so invariably they banded together against the passenger if a complaint was made. I learned this the hard way on one trip and just left things alone after that as far as complaints on board. I’ve written my share of complaints to Amtrak and used the online complaint form.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I had xxxxx on a trip on the Star back in June. Middle aged blonde woman, right? She's the one who swore Amtrak didn't stock Kleenex, and gave me a dirty look when I gave her a $5 tip which she didn't deserve. I was hoping she'd be gone by now.

She been there 24 years.

 

[Acela150]

You are correct. Most issues like this, reported to management, get an eye roll and then the report goes in the trash. Rarely, usually if a tree in corporate was rattled, will it even be mentioned to the employee.

And that's the sad part. When I worked the Builder an issue came up about one of my trips and the train manager pulled me into his office and we had a rather in depth conversation about the issue. As he was reading the complaint he was looking at the crew roster for that day and was baffled about the complaint and how it was about me and my car, when the passenger was clearly in another car with another attendant. But management takes things very serious in Seattle. Simply cause they all have been in the OBS shoes.

The one thing that I do remember is that an LSA can take an OBS crew member out of service for something. But I honestly can't remember if a Conductor can do the same for any OBS employees. OBS? Triley?

Just thinking... I am truly sorry that your SCA and the LSA left you with an extremely poor taste in your mouth. I'm glad to hear that the Conductor between NYP-WAS did their best to step up for you. 97 is based out of WAS between the two these days and they have some good people working down there.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Actually he was a NYC based crew. He did stated he had limited experience with this kind of train. Sound to me a pick up crew, he was definitely not familiar with the service level. He was trying hard to smooth things out. The impression I got, was the OBS crew was taken advantage of his inexperience. This whole OBS crew was just weird, or a weird vibe.