KDOT submits applications for rail funding

[saxman]

The Kansas Department of Transportation has submitted an application seeking $7.6 million in stimulus funding for track improvements on a section of the Southwest Chief passenger rail line.
Amtrak’s Southwest Chief runs daily between Chicago and Los Angeles, passing through numerous Kansas cities, including Kansas City, Newton and Garden City.

http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/sto.../31/daily2.html

IMO, this would be a very popular route because not only will it bring service back to Wichita, but would provide numerous connections for those wanting to make a connection to the westbound Southwest Chief from Texas. I get lots of passengers asking if they can get to Colorado or New Mexico by train from Texas. They usually turn up their nose when they find they have to go all the way to Illinois for a bus transfer to Galesburg.

 

[MrEd]

Does KDOT own the tracks ?

 

[mucomix]

If it worked out well with the MO River runner I would get some use out of the new run. I know a few folks who would love a good train between KC & DAL-Ft Worth.

 

[Rob_C]

Just where are they going to get the equipment for this expansion? Has anybody even put in an order yet with Alstrom for midwest expansion equipment other than the Talgos?

 

[saxman]

Does KDOT own the tracks ?

No, BNSF does.

Just where are they going to get the equipment for this expansion? Has anybody even put in an order yet with Alstrom for midwest expansion equipment other than the Talgos?

Thats what i was wondering myself. If the train were only extended to Newton and turned, then possibly they can use the current Heartland Flyer equipment which is only one set. It would be a tight turn around time though. Who knows if they'd want sleeper service because a trip to KCY would be overnight. Maybe they could be even have through car service to Chicago that joins the SWC consist.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I am of the understanding Kansas wants "reasonable hour" service on the HF extension even though the Southwest Chief times in both directions are dead in the middle of the night. Now whether the "Northern Flyer" extension will turn at Newton or go on into Kansas City, either situation will likely require 2 train sets to give decent hours of service. A couple extra engines/cabbages should not be a problem and I can picture each set consisting of 4 Coaches, perhaps one with a Business Class end and a CCC to cover Lounging/Diner Lite needs. That shouldn't be too much a stretch as an extra Coach or 2 are always on standby in FTW and Amtrak seems to be awash in Triple Cs.

When that happens, I might as well just sell the house and pay monthly rent to Amtrak

 

[mucomix]

would doubt KDOT has any right of way. But I bet BNSF has track.

The state has had trouble in the past even turning a condemned RR right of way in to a “Rails to Trails” walking/bike path. It turns in to a tax issue. Way too much to go into here. The State has nothing when it comes to right of way. KS has to condemn and buy land for any project.

I don’t know what is going on between OK City and Dallas/Ft Worth equipment wise. I would view it as an extension of Illinois service with Horizon cars. The MO river runner is really a Chicago-Kansas City run. Every time I’m on the MORR I’m surprised how many people take it from somewhere just south of Chicago to KC.

(It took me a trip or two to figure out if I lived out of town to the south of Chicago the train via St Louis could be a better option than the SWC to KC. From Lawrence KS where I live when I think Chicago I think SWC)

If the line is completed Chicago-St Louis-KC-Wichita- OK City-Dallas/Ft Worth. There is need for a lot of rolling stock. I think it would be a line that would get a fair amount of use with two levels of service. Superliner and Horizon/any old Amtrak car. There is use both long and short along this line.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The Kansas Department of Transportation has submitted an application seeking $7.6 million in stimulus funding for track improvements on a section of the Southwest Chief passenger rail line.
Amtrak’s Southwest Chief runs daily between Chicago and Los Angeles, passing through numerous Kansas cities, including Kansas City, Newton and Garden City.

http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/sto.../31/daily2.html

IMO, this would be a very popular route because not only will it bring service back to Wichita, but would provide numerous connections for those wanting to make a connection to the westbound Southwest Chief from Texas. I get lots of passengers asking if they can get to Colorado or New Mexico by train from Texas. They usually turn up their nose when they find they have to go all the way to Illinois for a bus transfer to Galesburg.

Are you back in Texas Chris?Didnt see part II of your trip to Glacier,hope it was a good one!I really enjoyed the DART/TRE riding in the metroplex,thanks again for the tour and advice!

 

[VT Hokie]

Just where are they going to get the equipment for this expansion? Has anybody even put in an order yet with Alstrom for midwest expansion equipment other than the Talgos?

Apparently Gateway Rail Services in Illinois has ownership of 50 ex-Santa Fe hi-level cars and is looking for a contract to rebuild 'em. There's other old equipment out there as well that could be rebuilt - North Carolina took the used equipment route for its Piedmont service.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Just where are they going to get the equipment for this expansion? Has anybody even put in an order yet with Alstrom for midwest expansion equipment other than the Talgos?

Apparently Gateway Rail Services in Illinois has ownership of 50 ex-Santa Fe hi-level cars and is looking for a contract to rebuild 'em. There's other old equipment out there as well that could be rebuilt - North Carolina took the used equipment route for its Piedmont service.

Any chance Amtrak can snag some of these and refurbiish them into PPCs for the EB/CZ and SWC??

 

[wrjensen]

Just where are they going to get the equipment for this expansion? Has anybody even put in an order yet with Alstrom for midwest expansion equipment other than the Talgos?

Apparently Gateway Rail Services in Illinois has ownership of 50 ex-Santa Fe hi-level cars and is looking for a contract to rebuild 'em. There's other old equipment out there as well that could be rebuilt - North Carolina took the used equipment route for its Piedmont service.

Any chance Amtrak can snag some of these and refurbiish them into PPCs for the EB/CZ and SWC??

I recall and I might be wrong that the hi-Level Cars are shorter the the SL. It not by much but enough that it floors do not match. If that is true the not want them in the middle of a train due to the liability issues. Did Amtrak have some years ago have trans-coaches or dorm coaches which were HL? Is the HF using Hi-level cars or SL cars? I thought it started with HI-Level cars? What is it current Consist?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The Hi Level and Superliners do match up floor wise and until they were retired, Amtrak regularly mixed the 2 types. I still remember riding a Hi Level Lounge in the mid 90s, before they became PPCs and that thing was built to last.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I recall and I might be wrong that the hi-Level Cars are shorter the the SL. It not by much but enough that it floors do not match. If that is true the not want them in the middle of a train due to the liability issues. Did Amtrak have some years ago have trans-coaches or dorm coaches which were HL? Is the HF using Hi-level cars or SL cars? I thought it started with HI-Level cars? What is it current Consist?

They are slightly shorter, but the diaphragms meet up- they were designed to since the beginning and made to when the HLs were converted to HEP. Budd built them. You refurbish them right, they'll give another 30-40 years of service. I hope Kansas has the intelligence far to few states do and rebuild old equipment for running them.

Too many states waste their money buying all-new equipment. You need all-new equipment for certain kinds of service, I admit it. With NJTs 400k daily riders, stops every five minutes, and intentions of 125mph service, not to mention the fact that they run something like 400 trains- more than Amtrak - a day, they need new equipment. They need a lot of equipment- a lot more than you can find on the used market - and it needs to be fully compatible for their needs.

But on the other hand, take Wisconsin. What is the Hiawatha going to actually do? What do they need? Crikey, they are running for an hour and a bloody half. You don't need a few new Talgo sets for that. You don't even need Horizons. Buy themselves 2 dozen retiring Comets or convert some Silverliners to trailer service. Lease some old F40s- or buy NJTs soon to be retired GP40s. Buy 4 of them. Make sure that 4 of the comets are cab-cars. Not only can you run the Hiawatha more adequately and buy your own equipment, but with that service they can comfortably double the number of trains they run. For half the price of those two new Talgos. Less than half.

Heck, OMR has 4 ex-Metra Budd Gallery cab cars for $180k each, and 25 trailers for $140k each, all of which are roadable and Amtrak HEP compatible. And I think the going rate for an overhauled F40 is $500k.

So for $6.22 million they'd have 4 trainsets of 7 cars each, complete with engines, and a spare car, with a capacity of 1050 passengers a set. You could outfit the cars to American Orient Express levels for the $40 million they've just saved. Or outfit them with Horizon-level accomodations for well under $20 million and spend the other $20 million on paying the operating expenses of doubling service frequency for many years.

 

[VT Hokie]

They are slightly shorter, but the diaphragms meet up- they were designed to since the beginning and made to when the HLs were converted to HEP. Budd built them. You refurbish them right, they'll give another 30-40 years of service. I hope Kansas has the intelligence far to few states do and rebuild old equipment for running them.
Too many states waste their money buying all-new equipment.

Aren't you the same person who was criticizing New York for rebuilding old Turboliner equipment instead of buying new trains? LOL!

If the hi-levels are structurally sound, though, I do hope that somehow they get a new lease on life.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Something tells me as well built as the Hi Levels are built, with proper maintenance they will be hauling pax long after most of us have gone.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

They are slightly shorter, but the diaphragms meet up- they were designed to since the beginning and made to when the HLs were converted to HEP. Budd built them. You refurbish them right, they'll give another 30-40 years of service. I hope Kansas has the intelligence far to few states do and rebuild old equipment for running them.
Too many states waste their money buying all-new equipment.

Aren't you the same person who was criticizing New York for rebuilding old Turboliner equipment instead of buying new trains? LOL!

If the hi-levels are structurally sound, though, I do hope that somehow they get a new lease on life.

Two things. One, Rohr knows nothing about building cars, while Budd kinda invented the modern method of building railcars- big difference in the kind of equipment. Two, New York spent $70 million rebuilding about 30 cars and the powercars to go with them. If New York could get them back into service for $7 million, which they can't, I might have a different opinion.

I wasn't actually suggesting they rebuild them. If it was my choice, I'd buy them, replace only the seats with Amfleet-style seating (I'd figure on $50,000 a car), and run them. Total out of pocket expense would be about $8.1 million. For ten times that, I'd be telling them to buy new equipment.

 

[DaveKCMO]

1) BNSF owns all tracks being studied between KC and ft. worth (except for terminal railways in the larger cities, of course).

2) brand new equipment will probably not be funded, so expect refurbished rolling stock (kansas is just dipping their toes into this game). the story could change only if there's a large order coordinated by the feds with a big match (at least half, probably more).

3) don't assume a timely connection with the chief or simply an extension of the existing heartland flyer's timetable, even though those options are being studied. you have to please all three states along the 12-hour route. amtrak purists need to be realistic about what will end up being implemented. kansas will decide what makes sense for kansas travelers (and for oklahomans traveling to kansas, to a lesser degree).

 

[mucomix]

http://www.bnsf.com/tools/reference/divisi...5&submenu=0