Lake Shore Limited discussion

[NES28]

The Boston & Albany route was built very early in the Railroad Era. The routing is very circuitous, built that way to minimize the grades while the Mass. Pike accepted substantial grades. I have always thought that, at least, the Worcester (Auburn) to Palmer section should be bypassed with an electrified passenger-only routing adjacent to the Pike. A shortcut to Hartford, parallel to I-84, could diverge at Sturbridge creating a Boston-NYC route shorter and faster than the Shoreline and putting Worcester and Hartford on the mainline!

 

[Rasputin]

When it comes to 448 I am afraid that I have not led a charmed life. In the ten or so times I have taken it in the past 12 years it has been early only once. On two occasions, 2014 and 2017, it was so late (4 to 7 hours late) that I and others had to spend the night in South Station because public transportation had ceased for the night and the last Concord Coach lines bus to Maine had left hours earlier.

On my trip in 2016, 448 arrived in Boston at 11:09 p.m., three hours and 8 minutes late after departing Albany 2 hours and nine minutes late. It was only through a frantic, almost heart-attack-inducing run/fast walk (with luggage) from the South Station train station to the South Station bus station that I was able to make the last Concord bus lines bus to Maine departing at 11:15 p.m.

I am glad to hear that 448 has been making better time but I have no intention of going back.

 

[fdaley]

Going back to May 1, the average delay for 448 into Boston is 30 minutes, not ideal but not catastrophic.

I am curious though - I've done the bustitution for 449, which took about 2.5 hours BOS-ALB. We went non-stop, and my understanding is the Mass Pike is much more of a straight line than the rail route BOS-ALB. How much more competitive can the time realistically become from its 4.5-5 hour block?

The Mass Pike is about 30 miles shorter from Boston to Albany, which amounts to about 15 percent shorter than the rail route. It's still 170 miles, so 2.5 hours is about the best possible road time; if there's heavy traffic around Boston, it could be 3 hours.

Alas, the train will never cover that run in anything close to three hours without essentially rebuilding most of it on a completely new alignment. But getting the time down to something like 3:55 seems like it could be possible with some upgrades to the current route, and at that point, with a couple more frequencies that had reliable OTP, it could be a corridor people would use. I don't think it needs to be exactly car-competitive in terms of time, but it can't take twice as long. East of Springfield, where there are no mountains to speak of, much of the route right now has awfully slow running times.

 

[NES28]

I don't think that the modest improvements proposed by rs9 would attract many riders. There would be a major operating deficit that the Commonwealth would need to cover. Fast, frequent service would be profitable to operate.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I have found that the problem with delays to 448 is sometimes the MBTA and being held in the yard at Worcester while the MBTA train crews take their break at Worcester and tie up the line, at least that is how it has seemed to be to me. It seems to be civil war era railroading at its best.

The problem with the old layout at Worcester is only one platform track so both MBTA and Amtrak have to compete for it. The ongoing project to add a second platform should greatly improve the situation as 448/449 will be able to platform even if MBTA is laying over there.

Worcester Station new platforms

 

[user 14106]

The local intrastate Mass ridership on 448/449 has improved since the timekeeping of 448 has improved have witnessed it myself (not hours late usually these days). I think if they went to multi frequencies a day with modest improvements to the time there’d be riders.

 

[fdaley]

There was a piece in the Times Union of Albany awhile back that said the Baker administration, on its way out the door, was applying for federal funding from the infrastructure law to add two more BOS-ALB frequencies each way -- and that the NYS DOT was supporting the application. Definitely having more frequencies, with more reliability, and at least modest improvement in schedule time, would make it a much more useful route to many more people. If there were an eastbound that arrived at BOS about 11 a.m., and another by, say, 4 p.m., and presumably at least one late afternoon departure westbound, I know my family would use it lots more.

 

[user 14106]

There was a piece in the Times Union of Albany awhile back that said the Baker administration, on its way out the door, was applying for federal funding from the infrastructure law to add two more BOS-ALB frequencies each way -- and that the NYS DOT was supporting the application. Definitely having more frequencies, with more reliability, and at least modest improvement in schedule time, would make it a much more useful route to many more people. If there were an eastbound that arrived at BOS about 11 a.m., and another by, say, 4 p.m., and presumably at least one late afternoon departure westbound, I know my family would use it lots more.

In addition to the Boston - Albany frequencies they are looking at reinstating some inland route service New York - Boston via Hartford and Springfield which would involve some additional frequencies on the eastern end of the corridor.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Speaking as a honorary Bostonian, sounds like great ideas.

 

[IndyLions]

It's a New Year's Eve Miracle on the Lake Shore Limited!

I just boarded with my wife and daughter in 4912. Karen is our SCA.

She gave us a quick tour of the VLII. As we rounded the corner past the bedrooms and towards our roomettes - she said "here is the drink station, with water, coffee, ice."

What - ICE! In the actual VLII Ice Dispenser! You've gotta be kidding me! In 6 or 8 trips this is the first time I've EVER seen a SCA take the time to actually fill it with ice. Wow!

After I expressed my surprise and pleasure at this monumental event - Karen commented "yeah, a lot of the other attendants don't bother to use all the accessories, but I always do…"



Then I thought - Wait! could this mean she actually set up the shower using the towel rack????!!!!!!!!

Take a look!

 

[Willbridge]

It's a New Year's Eve Miracle on the Lake Shore Limited!

I just boarded with my wife and daughter in 4912. Karen is our SCA.

She gave us a quick tour of the VLII. As we rounded the corner past the bedrooms and towards our roomettes - she said "here is the drink station, with water, coffee, ice."

What - ICE! In the actual VLII Ice Dispenser! You've gotta be kidding me! In 6 or 8 trips this is the first time I've EVER seen a SCA take the time to actually fill it with ice. Wow!

After I expressed my surprise and pleasure at this monumental event - Karen commented "yeah, a lot of the other attendants don't bother to use all the accessories, but I always do…"
............................

Then I thought - Wait! could this mean she actually set up the shower using the towel rack????!!!!!!!!

Take a look!
..............................

Thanks for the good news to close out the year!

 

[IndyLions]

FWIW on the LSL 49(12/31) - 4911 was a VLI & 4912 was a VLII.

The SCA (Karen) on 4912 and Tim in the Diner were very, very good. Tim was a relatively new hire, not sure about Karen.

For dinner in the VLII Diner out of Albany, Karen took orders and delivered food. Tim prepared the food. Karen insisted on clearing the tables when we were done.

For breakfast on 1/1, Tim handled it solo - taking orders, delivering food and drinks and clearing afterwards.

All in all, a very good trip. Only slight negative was the heat in the roomettes was cranked too high.

 

[joelkfla]

All in all, a very good trip. Only slight negative was the heat in the roomettes was cranked too high.

Did you try adjusting the thermostat?

 

[IndyLions]

Did you try adjusting the thermostat?

Yes - the thermostat was set to 41F...

 

[mediaman]

Thanks for sharing this information. Congratulations to Karen for a job well done. It really is just about those little things that make a great impression and enjoyable trip.

 

[Shanson]

And here's a way to let management know that she did a good job:

https://www.amtrak.com/email-us

 

[Rasputin]

I understand that 49/449 (1) arriving in Chicago today (Jan. 2) had no Boston sleeper. I don't know if it started out with one and it went missing en route or if it failed to appear at the departure of 449 at South Station yesterday.

 

[user 14106]

FWIW on the LSL 49(12/31) - 4911 was a VLI & 4912 was a VLII.

The SCA (Karen) on 4912 and Tim in the Diner were very, very good. Tim was a relatively new hire, not sure about Karen.

For dinner in the VLII Diner out of Albany, Karen took orders and delivered food. Tim prepared the food. Karen insisted on clearing the tables when we were done.

For breakfast on 1/1, Tim handled it solo - taking orders, delivering food and drinks and clearing afterwards.

All in all, a very good trip. Only slight negative was the heat in the roomettes was cranked too high.

I have to add my experience that the lake shore has some great OBS staff in the sleepers/sleeper diner. While it is flexible dining the attendants make the most of it and try to provide good and friendly service.

 

[capltd29]

I understand that 49/449 (1) arriving in Chicago today (Jan. 2) had no Boston sleeper. I don't know if it started out with one and it went missing en route or if it failed to appear at the departure of 449 at South Station yesterday.

Is this the only set missing a sleeper? I am supposed to leave Boston on 1/6 on 449 and I am trying to decide if I want to just leave from NYP and get a sleeper reservation while they still have them rather than take the chance at being in coach or being cancelled outright due to lack of space. If my calculations are right then the train of 1/6 would have arrived BOS yesterday and go out again today.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Is this the only set missing a sleeper? I am supposed to leave Boston on 1/6 on 449 and I am trying to decide if I want to just leave from NYP and get a sleeper reservation while they still have them rather than take the chance at being in coach or being cancelled outright due to lack of space. If my calculations are right then the train of 1/6 would have arrived BOS yesterday and go out again today.

You could book the sleeper ALB - CHI and ride coach BOS - ALB which would not be terrible, the only thing you miss is the "free" lunch from the cafe.

 

[John Bredin]

This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.

Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?

The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the baggage, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.

 

[rs9]

This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.

Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?

The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the baggage, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.

I was on the train you are referencing and was in the coach car directly in front of the diner. There was very little forward-backward foot traffic through my car, so it seems unlikely anyone was coming forward through the diner. The diner had the usual "Do not enter" sign posted on the galley entry door.

 

[OBS]

This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.

Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?

The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the baggage, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.

This may actually be the post holiday winter consist. Today's 49 just went thru Poughkeepsie with just 2 coaches. I assume the two on the rear were DH for whatever reason...

 

[joelkfla]

This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.

Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?

The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the baggage, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.

If they were separated from the rest of the train by the baggage car, they were undoubtedly deadheads.

 

[John Santos]

You could book the sleeper ALB - CHI and ride coach BOS - ALB which would not be terrible, the only thing you miss is the "free" lunch from the cafe.

I had to do that once, and they put me in business class between Boston and Albany (both ways) and fed me. (I had a roomette in the New York sleepers between Albany and Chicago.) On the east-bound trip, however, dinner was a salad that was mostly still frozen. Fortunately, I was planning to take the Red Line from BOS to Alewife and meet up with some friends for dinner at Jasper White's Summer Shack (fantastic seafood next door to the Alewife MBTA station) and a ride home, so I didn't really want to eat anyway.