Lake Shore Limited questions (Spring - Summer 2022)

[Kramerica]

In late August of this summer my family will be taking a round trip Amtrak vacation from Milwaukee to Boston. We'll be travelling coach. I've taken several Amtrak LD trips and am familiar with the Hiawatha. But all the LD trips were in Superliner equipment. So I've got some questions about the equipment we'll have on the LSL. My family is two adults and three kids ages 13-17.

- No SSL of course. Is there a cafe / business on the LSL? Will we be able to hang out there during the day and play games and watch the scenery?

- I see business class isn't that much more expensive than coach. What do we get with business class?

- How different are the seats (spacing, comfort, etc) from the Superliner coach?

- After Albany the train splits. We keep the cafe / business car, right?

Any other thoughts about the LSL that might be helpful? Thanks!

 

[MARC Rider]

The Business class/cafe car is a split car in which half the car contains 2x1 seating, which is very nice. The other half is a standard cafe car. When I rode it last June, I did see people sitting in the cafe section, but, of course, with only half the number of tables, they may want to reserve them for people actually eating stuff they bought at the cafe. In business class, aside from the more comfortable seats, you get free non-alcoholic drinks, and one free alcoholic drink.

The Amfleet 2 coach seats are pretty comfortable, but I think there's a bit less legroom than those in the Superliner coach seats.

The cafe/business class car splits at Albany and goes to Boston.

If you spring for a sleeper, you get meals in the dining car. These are flex meals for now, but the new V2 diners are very nice, and they let sleeping car passengers hang out there between meals. The dining car splits at Albany and goes to New York, so the flex meals served to sleeper passengers between Albany and Boston come from the cafe car and are served in the rooms. When I rode last fall, the dining car service was actually pretty good. For some reason, unlike some of the other eastern trains with flex meals, the dining car had a staff of 2, which meant they could take more care in reheating the meals.

 

[Fenway]

LSL going eastbound offers nice views in upstate NY and the Berkshires in Western MA.

10-15 years ago the trip east could get annoying as the Border Patrol would do a sweep anywhere between Byron, OH, and Rochester, NY ( anywhere within 100 lakegull miles from Canada ) especially if the sweep was done before dawn - I can't recall an inspection going west. That doesn't seem to be an issue anymore.

Albany–Rensselaer station can be a 30-60 minute layover as they split the sections but is good for stretching the legs.

Albany-Boston (200 miles) is painfully slow ( 5 hours ) but you know that going in.

Had a memorable trip back in 1986 when John Madden was headed to Boston for a football game - he paid for everybody in the cafe car the entire trip - all he asked was we would tip the attendant.

 

[oregon pioneer]

I took the LSL both ways in Jan/Feb, and I concur with much of the advice above. The cafe car only has about 6 tables*, and one is often blocked off for staff use (covered with papers or supplies). If you want a place to hang out, I'd suggest Business Class (because you can easily see when there are tables available in the other end of the car) or a sleeper. Business Class seats are more roomy and comfortable than Coach seats, and if you or the kids are into sipping coffee, tea, or soda all day, it comes with the tickets. The tray tables are large and sturdy compared to coach tables.

People may complain about the speed east of Albany, but to me the leisurely transit through the Berkshires is one of the highlights of that trip, as I love the scenery.

* I could not find a diagram of the cafe/business class car layout, but I know there aren't very many tables. Passengers mostly carry their food back to their seat. Here are photos of the view looking towards the cafe in the center of the car:

From the business class seating end of the car:

And from the table end (open to coach customers). Note the table covered with supplies:

 

[Kramerica]

Thank you everyone for your information. Sounds like business class would be a worthwhile upgrade, at least for one direction. As for a sleeper, I'd love to but I don't have dozens of Benjamins laying around!

 

[user 14106]

In late August of this summer my family will be taking a round trip Amtrak vacation from Milwaukee to Boston. We'll be travelling coach. I've taken several Amtrak LD trips and am familiar with the Hiawatha. But all the LD trips were in Superliner equipment. So I've got some questions about the equipment we'll have on the LSL. My family is two adults and three kids ages 13-17.

- No SSL of course. Is there a cafe / business on the LSL? Will we be able to hang out there during the day and play games and watch the scenery?

- I see business class isn't that much more expensive than coach. What do we get with business class?

- How different are the seats (spacing, comfort, etc) from the Superliner coach?

- After Albany the train splits. We keep the cafe / business car, right?

Any other thoughts about the LSL that might be helpful? Thanks!

Have a great trip - while it’s a slow ride Albany - Boston it’s actually quite scenic particularly west of Springfield and some east of Springfield as well.

 

[user 14106]

The Business class/cafe car is a split car in which half the car contains 2x1 seating, which is very nice. The other half is a standard cafe car. When I rode it last June, I did see people sitting in the cafe section, but, of course, with only half the number of tables, they may want to reserve them for people actually eating stuff they bought at the cafe. In business class, aside from the more comfortable seats, you get free non-alcoholic drinks, and one free alcoholic drink.

The Amfleet 2 coach seats are pretty comfortable, but I think there's a bit less legroom than those in the Superliner coach seats.

The cafe/business class car splits at Albany and goes to Boston.

If you spring for a sleeper, you get meals in the dining car. These are flex meals for now, but the new V2 diners are very nice, and they let sleeping car passengers hang out there between meals. The dining car splits at Albany and goes to New York, so the flex meals served to sleeper passengers between Albany and Boston come from the cafe car and are served in the rooms. When I rode last fall, the dining car service was actually pretty good. For some reason, unlike some of the other eastern trains with flex meals, the dining car had a staff of 2, which meant they could take more care in reheating the meals.

On my last trip in the Boston sleeper last June there were no flex meals in the cafe. Lunch was offered for sleeper passengers boarding in Boston, Framingham, Worcester, and Springfield and was a choice of any item from the cafe. Sleeper Passengers boarding in Springfield (which is where I got on) had to go to the cafe soon after boarding as they cease offering this before arriving at Pittsfield. Dinner and next morning breakfast were of course flex dining in the dining car. Coming west there didn’t seem to be any dinner option after the train split (or at least nothing was offered and the cafe seemed pretty cleaned out by then.)

 

[JP1822]

The Lake Shore Limited has gotten better in service and its offerings, especially since it has the Viewliner II Diner, the Amfleet Cafe/Business Class car, and even Viewliner II Sleepers for a nice upgrade (as opposed to the Viewliner I's, which have not aged well at all). I actually enjoy utilizing the Viewliner II Diner between meals to get work done and "spread out a little bit." Nice "viewing car" too. Train of choice to/from East Coast and Midwest for me was always the Capitol Limited, but the downgrading of this train has led me to taking the LSL westbound and Capitol Limited eastbound.

The only thing I still don't like about the LSL - its schedule..... This is just NOT the clean-up train that is best out of Chicago at 9:30 pm, in my opinion. It was GREAT when the LSL left Chicago between 7 and 8 pm, and arrived into NYP at 3 pm (before dinner). It's current arrival into NYP is 6:30 pm or later, and many even have a connection to quickly make - via the NEC on Amtrak or the commuter railroads serving NYC. Most passengers' last meal though was at around 12 noon on the LSL...... No dinner service eastbound before arriving into NYP. Many passengers bail out in Albany to raid the cafe at the station there for take out food. And now to hear that eastbound Albany to Boston that sleeper car passengers may be scrambling for food prior to its arrival at post-9 pm...... It makes one miss the Three Rivers or Broadway Limited, just saying, and long for the eastbound schedule of what used to be for this train.

The Three Rivers or Broadway left Chicago after 9 pm, and was able to intersect with NEC traffic at Philadelphia around 3 pm or so where connection to some southern point trains could still be made if the schedule held up (Crescent, Silver Meteor, Regionals). Even if passengers were destined to Ohio and Indiana, they sometimes could divert to the Three Rivers or Broadway Limited (requiring an alternate pickup or even taxi cab to get up to Toledo, Waterloo, etc.).

 

[billosborn]

Is 4911 a Viewliner I or II?

 

[Rasputin]

I have no familiarity with the operation of the Lake Shore between Albany and New York City but I will second Oregon Pioneer's comment that the trip on the Boston section through the Berkshires is just great.

Keep in mind that when the timekeeping of the eastbound Lake Shore goes south, it really goes south on the Boston section since that train seems to be given no dispatching priority and just gets later and later. Since you are going to Boston that is probably not that much of a problem but if you are catching other transportation out of Boston it can be really bad when the Lake Shore arrives so late that other transportation has closed for the night.

And the bustitution when it occurs between Albany and Boston is a very poor experience.

 

[joelkfla]

Is 4911 a Viewliner I or II?

The VL II has been the 2nd of the 2 NYP sleepers, but I don't know whether the NYP sleepers on the LSL are numbered 4910 & 4911, or 4911 & 4912.

 

[user 14106]

I have no familiarity with the operation of the Lake Shore between Albany and New York City but I will second Oregon Pioneer's comment that the trip on the Boston section through the Berkshires is just great.

Keep in mind that when the timekeeping of the eastbound Lake Shore goes south, it really goes south on the Boston section since that train seems to be given no dispatching priority and just gets later and later. Since you are going to Boston that is probably not that much of a problem but if you are catching other transportation out of Boston it can be really bad when the Lake Shore arrives so late that other transportation has closed for the night.

And the bustitution when it occurs between Albany and Boston is a very poor experience.

CSX does a decent job with 448/449 but Keolis is happy to stick it behind a local east of Worcester.

 

[oregon pioneer]

... And now to hear that eastbound Albany to Boston that sleeper car passengers may be scrambling for food prior to its arrival at post-9 pm......

Not sure when or where that might have happened, but here is the food status as I experienced it in on 448 in Jan/449 in Feb:
Eastbound, my SCA (sleeper car attendant) asked before Albany what dish I would like for dinner (from the menu). He had it on board and heated it up in the cafe car, then delivered it to my roomette around 5pm. I chose the salmon and a brownie (chocolate any time they offer it, that's me!), I learned to not ask for the salad. In my opinion, it was inedible, but then I am spoiled by having fresh home-grown greens most of the time. I thought the salmon was quite good, for a microwave meal:


Westbound, my attendant told me to just head down to the cafe after leaving Boston. I could have my choice of anything off the cafe menu. I chose a turkey and cheese sandwich and some chips. The attendant told me some had complained the sandwich was still partially frozen, so I asked for a quick heat-up and was pleasantly surprised how good it tasted with mustard spread on the bread:


The diner menu is not available to coach passengers, but I'd recommend that turkey sandwich and chips to anyone!

 

[Rasputin]

CSX does a decent job with 448/449 but Keolis is happy to stick it behind a local east of Worcester.

Yes the keolis dispatching is a problem without a solution. It is very infuriating when you are on 448 two to three hours or more late hoping to make connections. But personally, I have found my solution - avoid 448 and fly back.

 

[JP1822]

4812 and 4912 have typically been a Viewliner II Sleeper on the Lake Shore Limited. That is NOT to be an absolute, but that's been the pattern for over a year now.......

 

[user 14106]

Yes the keolis dispatching is a problem without a solution. It is very infuriating when you are on 448 two to three hours or more late hoping to make connections. But personally, I have found my solution - avoid 448 and fly back.

I will say though that OTP on CSX has improved to the point where it leaves OT out of Albany regularly. If it hits Keolis on time it seems to do better.

 

[Rasputin]

I will say though that OTP on CSX has improved to the point where it leaves OT out of Albany regularly. If it hits Keolis on time it seems to do better.

That is good to hear. As I recall, there is (or was) an outbound MBTA train that used to arrive at Worcester at about 9 p.m. The crew would then go on break for about half an hour tying up the mainline before becoming an inbound train for Boston. In the meantime the 448 I would be on would have to cool its wheels in the yard causing additional delay and then we would have to follow this MBTA train into Boston causing more delay. Real third-world railroading. Maybe the track reconstruction at Worcester will solve this problem, maybe not.

 

[Mailliw]

4812 and 4912 have typically been a Viewliner II Sleeper on the Lake Shore Limited. That is NOT to be an absolute, but that's been the pattern for over a year now.......

It was when I was on the LSL last month. And that service stop at Albany Rensselaer is a godsend; take the opportunity to stock up on snacks.

 

[joelkfla]

Is 4911 a Viewliner I or II?

This member answered your question, but did not reply to your post, so you wouldn't have been notified. I'm just repeating it here in case you didn't see it:

4812 and 4912 have typically been a Viewliner II Sleeper on the Lake Shore Limited. That is NOT to be an absolute, but that's been the pattern for over a year now.......

 

[west point]

The northern LD trains are not my best knowledge. However, it does seem that it should depart CHI around 1800 - 1900. That would get a much better arrival time in NYP. More importantly it would arrive in BOS in enough time for the sleeper(s) to be used for the night owl. (65 - 67).

The Capitol could be moved to the CHI departure slot.

 

[Fenway]

I always had one beef with the LSL heading east is the cafe car would shut down at 1 AM ET and the clocks would change at South Bend, IN.

There was a bar at Union Station Chicago called The Snuggery and they specialized in takeout packages for eastbound travelers.



The most annoying thing about Union Station 10-15 years ago were the compurtized chatterbox announcements at each gate which were gibberist.

The LSL to me is an old friend with quirks. It gets no respect from any of the host railroads and if you hang out in the cafe car you can see conductors frustration as they hear changes over the radio.

 

[BlackDiamond]

That is good to hear. As I recall, there is (or was) an outbound MBTA train that used to arrive at Worcester at about 9 p.m. The crew would then go on break for about half an hour tying up the mainline before becoming an inbound train for Boston. In the meantime the 448 I would be on would have to cool its wheels in the yard causing additional delay and then we would have to follow this MBTA train into Boston causing more delay. Real third-world railroading. Maybe the track reconstruction at Worcester will solve this problem, maybe not.

In the past (not possible currently with the temporary platform arrangement) when MBTA had the platform track at WOR tied up, 448 would pull ahead then back in and unload at the old low level platform where the "Amshack" used to be, under I-290. That happened to me on my last trip on 448.

NB: Actually the Amshack is still there but boarded up.

 

[Lonnie]

On my last trip in the Boston sleeper last June there were no flex meals in the cafe. Lunch was offered for sleeper passengers boarding in Boston, Framingham, Worcester, and Springfield and was a choice of any item from the cafe. Sleeper Passengers boarding in Springfield (which is where I got on) had to go to the cafe soon after boarding as they cease offering this before arriving at Pittsfield. Dinner and next morning breakfast were of course flex dining in the dining car. Coming west there didn’t seem to be any dinner option after the train split (or at least nothing was offered and the cafe seemed pretty cleaned out by then.)

We just got off the LSL from Chicago at Springfield. The SCA took our dinner order at the same time he took our lunch order, around 10am. Lunch was in the dining car, dinner was brought to us in our rooms after Albany. And the train arrived on time!

 

[Lonnie]

It was when I was on the LSL last month. And that service stop at Albany Rensselaer is a godsend; take the opportunity to stock up on snacks.

A couple days ago in the 448 headed for Springfield / Boston, there wasn't enough time for us to go all the way into the station. But at least we arrived in Springfield on time.

 

[user 14106]

We just got off the LSL from Chicago at Springfield. The SCA took our dinner order at the same time he took our lunch order, around 10am. Lunch was in the dining car, dinner was brought to us in our rooms after Albany. And the train arrived on time!

That’s good to know. For some reason They didn’t offer this when I was onboard last June. On my most recent trip a few weeks back I was in the New York sleeper because I wanted to be in a VL2 and I did business/coach both ways between Springfield and Albany so I didn’t see if they were offering dinner. I did business on my trip west from Springfield to Albany then got on sleeper 4912 to Chicago and coming home 4912 to Albany and then Coach to Springfield.