Megabus returns to CA! Will Amtrak California suffer?

[Texan Eagle]

Posting this under Amtrak discussions rather than Non-rail discussions because this might have a direct impact on Amtrak California

Megabus Relaunching Service from Los Angeles, San Francisco and Six Cities in California and Nevada

"Megabus.com, the city-to-city, express bus company with fares from $1, today announced expansion to California and Nevada. California and Nevada residents can now travel express to/from Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Calif., Riverside, Calif., Las Vegas, Sparks/Reno, Nev., Sacramento, Calif., and San Jose, Calif. for as low as $1. Frequent daily service will begin Dec. 12, and customers can begin booking travel at www.megabus.com today.

To celebrate the new service, during first week of travel Dec. 12-19, all tickets will be $1"

~

I know the anti-Megabus brigade residing here on AU will come out to dismiss this, but I am sure a lot of California residents are going to be thrilled at this option coming back. Yes they failed last time around, but this is a different time than 2006 and this time around Megabus is launching with double decker buses with free Wi-fi. That might change things a bit.

Do you think this will affect Amtrak in California in any way? Will the people who take Capitol Corridor from Bay Area to Sacramento consider moving to Megabus? After all Amtrak California is not cheap. Similarly for Bay Area-LA market. Instead of train-bus combination taking 9-10 hours, direct Megabus might be a more lucrative option. Last week I drove from San Jose to LA day before Thanksgiving and entire I-5 was a long boring drive. If I had the Megabus option, I'd have taken it for sure.

They are also starting LA-Vegas service scheduled for 5 hr 30 min. Will this directly compete with the LA-Vegas train plans underway?

Thoughts?

 

[the_traveler]

No I don't! It's hard to post a detailed reply on my iPad, but look at the NEC - Amtrak and Megabus both operate. Amtrak is still full!

 

[Blackwolf]

I believe it stands that some portion of the ridership will go to using MegaBus over the rail options currently in place due to sticker price. But it is also prudent to point out that MegaBus actually never left California at all; only the name did. MegaBus is owned and operated by CoachUSA, a company that has been doing business in California for many years for charter (including, I believe, under contract for Amtrak California in times past!) But any drop in ridership for the trains will be small. Simply put, in order to cause devastating and painful 'damage' to the ridership seen on the Amtrak California routes, they'd need an insane number of buses for their fleet. Not something entirely out of the question many years into the future if MegaBus suddenly becomes an enormous success story in the Golden State, but they are not going to put Amtrak California out of business. Ever.

If anything, the one route that stands as most vulnerable to MegaBus will be the San Joaquins to LAX via the bus bridge. A one-seat ride that takes less time and less money is a powerful leverage over what is currently offered. Unfortunately, Amtrak is hung in this case and with absolutely zero options. They will never get slots over the Tehachepi route, and even if they did, it would still be too long a ride and certainly in another league for cost. Until HSR comes along with tunnels through the mountains, this lack of infrastructure will make trains a non-starter.

I don't feel as if any danger is posed SF/SAC for the Capitol Corridor. This is an established route, with a dedicated ridership, and if anything the competition from MegaBus might keep ticket prices steady or even force them down a few dollars.

The Surfliners have other issues that are much more dangerous than MegaBus, including other rail options that costs less and are more frequent.

And the Nevada/California traffic? Not even a blip on the radar, I'll wager. Maybe some of the drug traffickers will switch over to MegaBus instead of taking the train, and Reno 911, er... PD will stop harassing the CZ? One can hope!!

In summary, California is the 3rd largest State in the country, and the 1st in population. Nearly 38 million people live here; 1 in every 8 Americans. More transportation options are better, not fewer. There are plenty of passengers to spread around, and the number of them are growing as (unbelievably) even Californians are ditching their cars where they can these days

 

[Bruce-C]

Right now, the plans for a train from LA to Las Vegas is more an exercise to get into the states wallet, not get a train running. The Megabus is NOW and it will be a success!

 

[calwatch]

On my San Joaquin riding experience I have noticed relatively few people making the trip all the way from the LA area to the Bay Area (east of Martinez). Riders are either going to Central Valley cities like Fresno or Merced (a lot of UC Merced and Fresno State students use the train on Sundays, and there are sometimes a full bus load of people transferring to the San Luis Obispo bus at Hanford), or they are super commuters who are going to places where Megabus would never serve (the woman behind me who kept me up all night talking about her Oceanside to Garberville trip). It does offer more flexible times, and may be a viable competition to some of the ethnic buses and Greyhound - especially since Greyhound has that awful terminal in Skid Row in Los Angeles. With the advent of Greyhound Express there are fewer trips available at less shady terminals like Hollywood and North Hollywood.

 

[Guestlsa]

Nah but I am glad they now on west coast. I used to ride it back & forth from NYC to Philly and never had single complaint . It would even better if they had some kind of promotion with Amtrak or some kind of contract . now I just hope they would up near San Fernando valley ( where I live ) so I have another option when I miss my bus after I come in off the starlight instead of flyway

 

[George Harris]

Maybe Megabus will draw off some of the riff raff that make up a small but obnoxious portion of the San Joaquin ridership. I can think of one trip where two seats behind us was a motor mouth continuously on the phone who did not seem to know how to talk without have one to two f**k per sentence, along with other not so choice word selections. There have been a couple of other occasions where the trip would have been improved by the absence of one or more passengers.

 

[The Journalist]

I suspect this will be massively popular with Reno college students, since a sizable number of them come from Sacramento and the Bay Area. Possibly tempered by having to go out to Sparks first, though having the stop at the Sparks transit hub might offset that some. Also, the service to/from here starts the day before classes end. That can't be a coincidence...

 

[Anderson]

I think the impact is going to be limited. A lot of those city pairs are actually pretty lousy Amtrak pairs (you get stuck doing multiple transfers, already get stiffed with a bus ride, etc.). What I'm not sure is if all six cities have express rides to one another, given Megabus's tendency not to do much with connections.

 

[guest]

Maybe Megabus will draw off some of the riff raff that make up a small but obnoxious portion of the San Joaquin ridership. I can think of one trip where two seats behind us was a motor mouth continuously on the phone who did not seem to know how to talk without have one to two f**k per sentence, along with other not so choice word selections. There have been a couple of other occasions where the trip would have been improved by the absence of one or more passengers.

You aren't kidding! It seems to be more on the southern end of the route, for some reason (this after having ridden the SJ some 70 round-trips at this point. There's a reason that the veteran conductors call green lawn bags "valley Samsonite."

 

[johnny.menhennet]

What I'm not sure is if all six cities have express rides to one another

That's not an issue. Megabus thought about the markets they were entering, and I can honestly say that yes, there are hoards of people who are interested in direct travel.

 

[calwatch]

There are six roundtrips between LA and the Bay Area (half stopping at San Jose, half at West Oakland, all of them going to SF Caltrain), four roundtrips between LA, Riverside, and Vegas, and two roundtrips from SF, Sacramento, and Sparks. The LA-Bay Area market has people who take the train because of scenic views or people that take the train because it gets them closer to where they need to go or are coming from. I am in the latter category because I travel from the Inland Empire to the East Bay, where flights are either expensive (out of ONT), time consuming to get to where I need to be, or both. Traffic on I-80 is bad enough such that the Capitol Corridor will remain competitive. There are already over 30 ground trips between LA and San Francisco - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhsTEPUS3lEqdC1wM1BudklCX0dvX1FaQ25pT1E2T1E - and that level is not sustainable for the bus providers. Amtrak caters to a different market, one focused on intermediate destinations.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

One thing to note is that I find Megabus to be extremly uncomfortable with hard, narrow seats and low ceilings. A slew of accidents also recently happened and their Van Hool equipment seems more vulnerable in collisions. They also lack bus stations which can be a problem if the bus is late, caught in California traffic.

All these reasons add up to why I will not ever use Megabus again unless they at least get better equipment.

 

[jebr]

It looks like 11 of those trips (at least NB) are Amtrak trips, leaving 24 trips daily each way for the bus companies. Considering that a bus' maximum capacity (excluding Megabus' double deckers) is around 50, that's about 1200 people maximum using the service each way daily. While not a small number, I can imagine that many people using the service, especially since many of the services do have at least one intermediate destination to supplement the service.

 

[railiner]

There are six roundtrips between LA and the Bay Area (half stopping at San Jose, half at West Oakland, all of them going to SF Caltrain), four roundtrips between LA, Riverside, and Vegas, and two roundtrips from SF, Sacramento, and Sparks. The LA-Bay Area market has people who take the train because of scenic views or people that take the train because it gets them closer to where they need to go or are coming from. I am in the latter category because I travel from the Inland Empire to the East Bay, where flights are either expensive (out of ONT), time consuming to get to where I need to be, or both. Traffic on I-80 is bad enough such that the Capitol Corridor will remain competitive. There are already over 30 ground trips between LA and San Francisco - https://docs.google....X1FaQ25pT1E2T1E - and that level is not sustainable for the bus providers. Amtrak caters to a different market, one focused on intermediate destinations.

There are six roundtrips between LA and the Bay Area (half stopping at San Jose, half at West Oakland, all of them going to SF Caltrain), four roundtrips between LA, Riverside, and Vegas, and two roundtrips from SF, Sacramento, and Sparks. The LA-Bay Area market has people who take the train because of scenic views or people that take the train because it gets them closer to where they need to go or are coming from. I am in the latter category because I travel from the Inland Empire to the East Bay, where flights are either expensive (out of ONT), time consuming to get to where I need to be, or both. Traffic on I-80 is bad enough such that the Capitol Corridor will remain competitive. There are already over 30 ground trips between LA and San Francisco - https://docs.google....X1FaQ25pT1E2T1E - and that level is not sustainable for the bus providers. Amtrak caters to a different market, one focused on intermediate destinations.

Thanks for posting that link. Very handy for at-a-glance reference for all services. Where does it come from?

 

[calwatch]

I actually made the file. I should probably give myself credit but decided not to.

 

[thully]

Well, it may have some effect on LA-Bay Area - as it stands, Amtrak only has one direct train (the CS), and all other options require bus connections at Bakersfield/Santa Barbara/SLO. The idea of a direct bus that isn't Greyhound would be tempting if priced less than Amtrak and the airlines - though it may perhaps take more passengers from the latter than the former. Maybe it will get more Amtrak passengers from the Capitol Corridor route, but that depends on the pricing.

It won't affect the Surfliners very much at all - as of now, they're not serving any city pairs served by the Surfliners save for the bus connections that go to the Bay Area from SBA/SLO, and there's no routes going to San Diego. Though if they did (re)launch an SD-LA route in the future, it may take some direct SAN-LAX traffic from the Surfliners. The only other option for that now - aside from driving - is Greyhound (with all the sketchiness - or percieved sketchiness - that that entails), unless you count the Coaster-Metrolink connection (which doesn't work well except for a couple times per day - I actually plan to attempt it this Friday).

Personally, I'd take it if the price/timing was right - though if Amtrak fit my schedule, I'd be willing to pay a bit more for it. Probably be more willing to do that than take Greyhound - given all the nightmare stories of not getting a seet on the bus, crazy passengers, and sketchy stations I've heard of there. My experience with Megabus Ann Arbor-Chicago was perfectly fine - at least on par with the Amtrak Thruway buses (though I'd still prefer the Wolverine unless its considerably more expensive).

 

[Texan Eagle]

Personally, I'd take it if the price/timing was right - though if Amtrak fit my schedule, I'd be willing to pay a bit more for it.

Bit more means how much more? Megabus is starting with $1 fare on ALL seats in the first week (Dec 12-19) and even after that they will have (very few) low bucket seats at $1 and many more on $5-$9 buckets. Compare it with Amtrak, I just ran a quick search on Amsnag for the week of Dec 12-19 for San Francisco- Los Angeles and the cheapest option is $58, involves a bus-train transfer and takes close to 10 hours. I know some people here who will pay the $57 more to get what they call the "civilized" experience but if you ask me, if I had to go to LA now, I'd definitely consider Megabus and spend the $57 saved on nice dinner and drinks, rather than paying that much premium to get a station with a roof for some time. To each their own.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Personally, I'd take it if the price/timing was right - though if Amtrak fit my schedule, I'd be willing to pay a bit more for it.

Bit more means how much more? Megabus is starting with $1 fare on ALL seats in the first week (Dec 12-19) and even after that they will have (very few) low bucket seats at $1 and many more on $5-$9 buckets. Compare it with Amtrak, I just ran a quick search on Amsnag for the week of Dec 12-19 for San Francisco- Los Angeles and the cheapest option is $58, involves a bus-train transfer and takes close to 10 hours. I know some people here who will pay the $57 more to get what they call the "civilized" experience but if you ask me, if I had to go to LA now, I'd definitely consider Megabus and spend the $57 saved on nice dinner and drinks, rather than paying that much premium to get a station with a roof for some time. To each their own.

Enjoy your ride.

 

[eagle628]

Right now, the plans for a train from LA to Las Vegas is more an exercise to get into the states wallet, not get a train running. The Megabus is NOW and it will be a success!

That isn't true, the X Train is scheduled to begin service in thirteen months, they've got the rolling stock now, they've signed operaing agreements (though not all) and they've got a plan to raise the remaining necessary money through private investment, not government. See the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Railway_Express. Can't say for certain that it'll work out, but they're definitely working on it, it's not a paper railroad by any means.

 

[BCL]

I'm thinking of maybe trying this out, but one issue I have is the locations. Their Oakland stop is at the West Oakland. I'm not sure about the location although it should be OK in daylight. The San Francisco stop is at the 4th and King Caltrain station. For LA it stop at Union Station, so it could be a convenient transfer to a train or the rental car companies.

 

[MikeM]

Something I haven't seen anyone comment on, but Megabus's terminal in LA is the transit plaza at LA Union Station, per their web site. Perhaps this could actually help some with train riders? For fun I loaded a trip to / from Las Vegas from LA, and it came back with a $3 cost and departure around noon among others.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well, it may have some effect on LA-Bay Area - as it stands, Amtrak only has one direct train (the CS), and all other options require bus connections at Bakersfield/Santa Barbara/SLO. The idea of a direct bus that isn't Greyhound would be tempting if priced less than Amtrak and the airlines - though it may perhaps take more passengers from the latter than the former. Maybe it will get more Amtrak passengers from the Capitol Corridor route, but that depends on the pricing.

It won't affect the Surfliners very much at all - as of now, they're not serving any city pairs served by the Surfliners save for the bus connections that go to the Bay Area from SBA/SLO, and there's no routes going to San Diego. Though if they did (re)launch an SD-LA route in the future, it may take some direct SAN-LAX traffic from the Surfliners. The only other option for that now - aside from driving - is Greyhound (with all the sketchiness - or percieved sketchiness - that that entails), unless you count the Coaster-Metrolink connection (which doesn't work well except for a couple times per day - I actually plan to attempt it this Friday).

Personally, I'd take it if the price/timing was right - though if Amtrak fit my schedule, I'd be willing to pay a bit more for it. Probably be more willing to do that than take Greyhound - given all the nightmare stories of not getting a seet on the bus, crazy passengers, and sketchy stations I've heard of there. My experience with Megabus Ann Arbor-Chicago was perfectly fine - at least on par with the Amtrak Thruway buses (though I'd still prefer the Wolverine unless its considerably more expensive).

No man! Greyhound is far from that bad! They even have reserved seating now on all runs so you are guarenteeed a seat. Their buses are always better than Megabus equipment and their stations are hit-or-miss, but not a big issue. Sure, you're hearing this from a Greyhound fan, but then again, if Greyhound was that bad I would not be a fan!

Megabus has some better equipment around CHI so that may be what you rode. Still no match for Greyhound's upgraded buses that'll kick any Van Hool down the drain!

 

[gswager]

Something I haven't seen anyone comment on, but Megabus's terminal in LA is the transit plaza at LA Union Station, per their web site. Perhaps this could actually help some with train riders?

Transit Plaza is located directly behind LA Union Station.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Something I haven't seen anyone comment on, but Megabus's terminal in LA is the transit plaza at LA Union Station, per their web site. Perhaps this could actually help some with train riders?

Transit Plaza is located directly behind LA Union Station.

Nah, I don't think it will help Amtrak. Megabus has service down the Central Valley and to Vegas. Amtrak has connections to both already with better buses and trains.