Merger of Frontier and Spirit Airlines

[jiml]

Frontier and Spirit Are Merging to Create Fifth-Largest Airline in the United States (msn.com)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Frontier and Spirit Are Merging to Create Fifth-Largest Airline in the United States (msn.com)

I like how they spin this as customer friendly while leaving out that it reduces customer choice and further solidifies mediocre service standards.

[post was edited to remove text no longer applicable to this new thread]

 

[adamj023]

I expected Spirit and Frontier to merge and was not surprised. I wonder which name they will keep. As Frontier will have the majority control I am wondering if the Spirit brand will be changed to Frontier. The Yellow spirit livery and branding is really bad. Two bad airlines combined should lead to a race to the bottom though customers will benefit from having more airplanes and routes under a single airline.

 

[Cal]

I've heard that Spirit branding is the one that will be kept, but can't verify it.

 

[Dakota 400]

I've heard that Spirit branding is the one that will be kept, but can't verify it.

I would never, ever consider flying on either of these airlines or any combination of them!

 

[me_little_me]

Mergers and buyouts are mostly good for executives and bad for customers and employees. I expect the same to be true for this merger.

 

[flitcraft]

And the name chosen for the merged entity has little to do with who is the real buyer and seller--whose CEO and bigwigs run the new merged entity. See America West and US Air, which kept the US Air moniker and was run by America West corporate, and later US Air and American, which kept American's name and livery but is still America West in the boardroom, I believe. (True of Boeing, too, whose merger with Mc Donnell Douglas led to the disastrous change in leadership which led to the change in culture from an engineering-first to a shareholder-value culture, which as we now know led to the 737 Max fiasco.

 

[me_little_me]

And the name chosen for the merged entity has little to do with who is the real buyer and seller--whose CEO and bigwigs run the new merged entity. See America West and US Air, which kept the US Air moniker and was run by America West corporate, and later US Air and American, which kept American's name and livery but is still America West in the boardroom, I believe. (True of Boeing, too, whose merger with Mc Donnell Douglas led to the disastrous change in leadership which led to the change in culture from an engineering-first to a shareholder-value culture, which as we now know led to the 737 Max fiasco.

That was also true when TTA (Trans-Texas Airlines) which, I believe, changed their name to TIA (Texas International Airlines) bought Continental and kept the Continental name.

 

[Bob Dylan]

That was also true when TTA (Trans-Texas Airlines) which, I believe, changed their name to TIA (Texas International Airlines) bought Continental and kept the Continental name.

Good Ole "Tree Top Airlines"!

 

[Exvalley]

The merger makes sense as far as their route maps are concerned.

While mergers are seldom good for the consumer as far as low prices are concerned, I am encouraged by the new LLCs that are trying to make a go of it, such as Breeze and Avelo. You also have Allegient as a strong player.

Spirit and Frontier both offer a VERY affordable premium seat. Spirit offers a domestic first class seat (2x2) without the first class services. Frontier is a traditional seat (3x3), but with lots of legroom. It will be interesting to see which model they go with after the merger. Hopefully it is the Spirit model with the 2x2 seating. It's one of the best deals out there.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

According to Seat Guru both Frontier and Spirit's standard seat pitch is as little as 28 inches. So, if you run late or get displaced by IRROPS you may have an absolutely miserable flight in front of you. I flew Frontier back when they had legacy legroom but that was more than a decade ago now. The two biggest trends in flying are ultra-low-cost-carriers and ultra-long-haul aircraft. I wonder what it will be like when these two trends finally merge into a single experience.

 

[me_little_me]

Good Ole "Tree Top Airlines"!

I had forgotten that one! Thanks.

I do remember "The Vomit Comet", "Blue Goose", "White Knuckle Airlines" and other derogatory names for various airlines.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I had forgotten that one! Thanks.

I do remember "The Vomit Comet", "Blue Goose", "White Knuckle Airlines" and other derogatory names for various airlines.

And "Agony Airlines" (Allegeheny Airlines)

 

[MARC Rider]

And "Agony Airlines" (Allegeheny Airlines)

..which was renamed as "US Scare."

 

[user 1215]

This is like a 49.8 vs 50.2% merger with Frontier being on top, iirc.

Been on Frontier and been on Allegiant. Wife's been on Spirit and Allegiant. As long a you know what you are getting and set your expectations appropriately, not much to be concerned about - much like a national rail service we here are familiar with.

Like any merger, they will take bits from both companies. American merged its livery with UScair abandoning its trademark polished aluminum fuselage and lost recognition of having a mostly Boeing fleet when acquiring USAir's Airbus fleet.

I think "Frontier Spirit" would be a good name, but no one really likes two words.

I think it's kinda funny that Amtrak fans are critical of these two airlines' barebone services and reliability.

Even the US' top tier airlines are hated when things go wrong.

I expect withiin 10 years, Frontier Spirit will merge with Allegiant.

Final note: when I flew on Frontier every seat was taken. Up until check in, the flight looked empty based on seat selection. Saw very few carry on bags at the gate (If you pay for a carry on, you get priority boarding). Goes to show most passengers know how to ride on the cheap and willing to do so.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

American merged its livery with UScair abandoning its trademark polished aluminum fuselage and lost recognition of having a mostly Boeing fleet when acquiring USAir's Airbus fleet.

Former America West execs had no history or nostalgia for an aluminum fuselage and they were calling the shots.

I think it's kinda funny that Amtrak fans are critical of these two airlines' barebone services and reliability.

I am a passenger rail fan. If I had a choice do you really think I would choose an operator like Amtrak? Amtrak is the only option we have and I think it's kinda funny that you pretend not to notice this.

 

[user 1215]

Former America West execs had no history or nostalgia for an aluminum fuselage and they were calling the shots.

Mergers are a funny thing. America West took over USAir, but kept the USAir branding. Actually looking into it, the American livery was already being changed before the merger, and during the merger, the combined employees were polled (Doug Parker to let American Airlines employees decide whether to keep the new AA tail (dallasnews.com))

I am a passenger rail fan. If I had a choice do you really think I would choose an operator like Amtrak? Amtrak is the only option we have and I think it's kinda funny that you pretend not to notice this.

That is the disappointment of American Rail. When there were choices, services (with a few notable exceptions) were exceptional. Yes. I understand that it's comparing apples to oranges. The irony still remains.

 

[Trogdor]

AA’s livery was changed mainly because composite planes such as the 787s they had on order would not work with a “polished aluminum” look anyway. Also, AA had hundreds of Airbus A320s on order two years before the US Airways merger.

 

[user 1215]

AA’s livery was changed mainly because composite planes such as the 787s they had on order would not work with a “polished aluminum” look anyway. Also, AA had hundreds of Airbus A320s on order two years before the US Airways merger.

True on the composites. Painted aluminum or chrome would probably look awful. Didn't know about the A320 order book. I see they did that in 2011. "American" Airlines. Ha.

 

[basketmaker]

This is like a 49.8 vs 50.2% merger with Frontier being on top, iirc.

Been on Frontier and been on Allegiant. Wife's been on Spirit and Allegiant. As long a you know what you are getting and set your expectations appropriately, not much to be concerned about - much like a national rail service we here are familiar with.

Like any merger, they will take bits from both companies. American merged its livery with UScair abandoning its trademark polished aluminum fuselage and lost recognition of having a mostly Boeing fleet when acquiring USAir's Airbus fleet.

I think "Frontier Spirit" would be a good name, but no one really likes two words.

I think it's kinda funny that Amtrak fans are critical of these two airlines' barebone services and reliability.

Even the US' top tier airlines are hated when things go wrong.

I expect withiin 10 years, Frontier Spirit will merge with Allegiant.

Final note: when I flew on Frontier every seat was taken. Up until check in, the flight looked empty based on seat selection. Saw very few carry on bags at the gate (If you pay for a carry on, you get priority boarding). Goes to show most passengers know how to ride on the cheap and willing to do so.

I agree Frontier Spirit would be excellent. Frontier's tagline is "Spirit of the West" from long ago. Hopefully the animals remain and are expanded. Their HQ is a couple of miles from me. And Spirit's HQ is a couple of miles from where I grew up.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

AA’s livery was changed mainly because composite planes such as the 787s they had on order would not work with a “polished aluminum” look anyway. Also, AA had hundreds of Airbus A320s on order two years before the US Airways merger.

Bare metal was a preference that AA paid extra to source and maintain but was not an absolute requirement.

 

[UserNameRequired]

I had forgotten that one! Thanks.

I do remember "The Vomit Comet", "Blue Goose", "White Knuckle Airlines" and other derogatory names for various airlines.

krazO

 

[basketmaker]

Bare metal was a preference that AA paid extra to source and maintain but was not an absolute requirement.

View attachment 27055

I love the polished look. But the paint on a commercial aircraft weighs between 600-1200#. That weight savings mean then can cram more people in and/or save fuel. Paint is also a corrosion preventative.

 

[jis]

Frontier + Spirit is projected to have even lower CASM than the two individually have, which is some of the lowest in the industry. They are able to differentiate themselves significantly on CASM and hence are able to produce RASM above that even with very low fares.

 

[MARC Rider]

Frontier + Spirit is projected to have even lower CASM than the two individually have, which is some of the lowest in the industry. They are able to differentiate themselves significantly on CASM and hence are able to produce RASM above that even with very low fares.

Any data on the percentage of customers who really fly with the "low fare" rather than end up paying more or less the same as the legacy fare after buying all the add-ons? I still think it's bait and switch. And it demonstrates that the "free market" does not produce the best outcomes, either for society or for the customer.