MI-ChI-NYP-CHI and Home again in MI

[Old MM]

My experience at NY Penn: My taxi dropped my 3 pieces of luggage and me off at the side of the station with only an escalator and stairs to the station below. How am I going to get this stuff and me--safely--down to where I needed to go? An Amtrak employee was coming up the escalator and I asked her for help. She said that she was on her lunch break, but she helped me get to the station where the Lounge and luggage check-in was close-by. I didn't have the presence of mind at the time to offer a gratuity and I have felt badly for some time because of my failure to do so. Other Amtrak employees at NYP whom I encountered were also pleasant and helpful.

Well, don't feel bad. It was her choice to help you and having been in the airline industry in a past life, I can tell you that sometimes, in the world of transporting passengers, helping someone out when you're on a break is its own reward.
Edit: it's never too late to call customer service and give a compliment.

 

[jiml]

It does speak well of the company and their choice of employees too. Your own report in Post #13 confirms that Amtrak still has some good people.

 

[Old MM]

It does speak well of the company and their choice of employees too. Your own report in Post #13 confirms that Amtrak still has some good people.

They have a lot of good Jimi. I report the good and the not so good. Also, I don't blame employees for the lack of service departing Chicago. If they weren't prepared to handle the increasing levels of ridership, that's on management. They know what the booking levels were.
Next time I'm in the situation of boarding BC on the Wolverine out of CUS, I will ensure some answers are provided before walking down to the tracks. Or I'll just use coach which is our norm.

 

[jiml]

I report the good and the not so good.

One of the reasons I always read your balanced reporting.

 

[PVD]

The third rail running is limited in time as well, isn’t it? Certainly power and speed are both less in electric mode than using the diesel prime mover.

Yes, the P32-DM is not designed for long distance 3rd rail running, it is designed to run on 3rd rail until it clears the enclosed space (out of NYP for Amtrak, GCT through the Park Ave Tunnel for MNRR. Then it starts the diesel for full speed running. It is rated for 60 mph on third rail, 110 as a diesel.

 

[NEPATrainTraveler]

Great trip report! I will probably feel emotional too whenever I take my next Amtrak trip. I Haven't traveled outside my local area since before the pandemic. The Hudson river scenery on 49 is great and was a highlight of my own LSL trip. I've seen the blondie get mentioned on a lot of trip reports where the OP had the flex meals. Almost makes me want to book a sleeper trip that's long enough to have one of the flex meals served, so I can try out the blondie for myself.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Wonderful trip and report! FREE @ Last,Free @ Last!

 

[JontyMort]

Well, don't feel bad. It was her choice to help you and having been in the airline industry in a past life, I can tell you that sometimes, in the world of transporting passengers, helping someone out when you're on a break is its own reward.
Edit: it's never too late to call customer service and give a compliment.

Interestingly, Dakota 400’s post doesn’t make it clear whether the experience was at “Penn classic” or the new Moynihan Train Hall. The latter is fully ADA-compliant and step-free access should be - and, I believe is - available from the taxi drop-off point.

 

[JontyMort]

Yes, the P32-DM is not designed for long distance 3rd rail running, it is designed to run on 3rd rail until it clears the enclosed space (out of NYP for Amtrak, GCT through the Park Ave Tunnel for MNRR. Then it starts the diesel for full speed running. It is rated for 60 mph on third rail, 110 as a diesel.

Yes, that got me thinking - by way of a digression - about third-rail traction generally, and the - relatively - few locomotives that have been used over the years (obviously, because third-rail is best suited to unit operation). In the UK, the early efforts culminated in the late 1950s with a “straight” DC-only locomotive with 2,500 hp, which must have been quite punchy in an 80-ton body. These were used on heavy boat-trains to the channel ports. But the obvious difficulties of staying on grid and lack of flexibility led to a short life. Later efforts produced a 1,600 hp electric with a 600 hp generator as well, which was very successful (especially used in pairs). But all of the electro-diesels in Britain have been electrics with diesel back-up, in contrast to the P32s.

Obviously third-rail multiple units in the UK have been much more common, and used for distances of up to about 100 miles - generally with performance well-matched to the traffic.

 

[jiml]

Yes, that got me thinking - by way of a digression - about third-rail traction generally, and the - relatively - few locomotives that have been used over the years (obviously, because third-rail is best suited to unit operation). In the UK, the early efforts culminated in the late 1950s with a “straight” DC-only locomotive with 2,500 hp, which must have been quite punchy in an 80-ton body. These were used on heavy boat-trains to the channel ports. But the obvious difficulties of staying on grid and lack of flexibility led to a short life. Later efforts produced a 1,600 hp electric with a 600 hp generator as well, which was very successful (especially used in pairs). But all of the electro-diesels in Britain have been electrics with diesel back-up, in contrast to the P32s.

Obviously third-rail multiple units in the UK have been much more common, and used for distances of up to about 100 miles - generally with performance well-matched to the traffic.

I wasn't aware until a couple of years ago that the UK had as much third-rail outside metropolitan areas as they do - particularly in the south. As a more casual and distant British railfan, I tend to think of overhead catenary associated with major routes first, then diesels in more rugged or remote areas, with third-rail more of an urban thing.

 

[Old MM]

Great trip report! I will probably feel emotional too whenever I take my next Amtrak trip. I Haven't traveled outside my local area since before the pandemic. The Hudson river scenery on 49 is great and was a highlight of my own LSL trip. I've seen the blondie get mentioned on a lot of trip reports where the OP had the flex meals. Almost makes me want to book a sleeper trip that's long enough to have one of the flex meals served, so I can try out the blondie for myself.

The blondie with a side of pretzels is one of my all time fave indulgences to have in a hotel room late at night after a tiring day. Kids prefer the Brownie, made with sustainable Peruvian chocolate

 

[Old MM]

Wonderful trip and report! FREE @ Last,Free @ Last!

Thank you for reading our adventures! Yes, Free is what it felt like to be out and about again!

 

[Old MM]

I wasn't aware until a couple of years ago that the UK had as much third-rail outside metropolitan areas as they do - particularly in the south. As a more casual and distant British railfan, I tend to think of overhead catenary associated with major routes first, then diesels in more rugged or remote areas, with third-rail more of an urban thing.

You never know where you might pick up interesting knowledge... all of this discussion is fascinating, and completely new to me. There was (is)? a user here named Third Rail and I never had any clue what that meant.

 

[Old MM]

Interestingly, Dakota 400’s post doesn’t make it clear whether the experience was at “Penn classic” or the new Moynihan Train Hall. The latter is fully ADA-compliant and step-free access should be - and, I believe is - available from the taxi drop-off point.

Since Moynihan has not been open that long, guessing the Penn classic.

 

[PVD]

One of the problems with taxis at Penn was that the complex was designed to have a mid-block taxi drop off and pickup ramp that went under the Penn Plaza building connections, that had good access for passengers. Post 9-11 it was closed off for vehicle access, and cabs now drop off pick up on the avenues, and it became much more difficult for passengers with luggage, particularly on the 8th Ave side. Hopefully, the Moynihan side fixes that, I haven't "explored" yet.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Thank you for a lovely trip report! And what a wonderful and thoughtful reward for your young people for handling a difficult year so well!

I love water, so especially enjoyed the mentions of the Hudson and the river in Chicago.

When I was in Chicago, I stayed in the north loop area and could easily walk to the river from my hotel. I enjoyed sitting on the steps and watching the river traffic.

The lake used to get all the tourist publicity and glamour (although the river seems to get mentioned a bit more now), but I loved watching the variety of river traffic.

Carrying all sorts of traffic, from barges to water taxis, the river seemed to be saying “The lake gets the glamour, but I do the work and keep the city moving!”

 

[JontyMort]

I wasn't aware until a couple of years ago that the UK had as much third-rail outside metropolitan areas as they do - particularly in the south. As a more casual and distant British railfan, I tend to think of overhead catenary associated with major routes first, then diesels in more rugged or remote areas, with third-rail more of an urban thing.

Historically, your assumption - of third rail being for commuter traffic - is absolutely correct. There were systems around Newcastle, Manchester, and Liverpool, of which only Liverpool’s has survived - though Newcastle and Manchester ultimately incorporated their former third-rail lines into light-rail/tram operations.

But as you say most third-rail electrification was, and still is, south of London. The London, Brighton & South Coast had a very early experiment with AC overhead, but after the enforced merger into the Southern Railway of 1923 the third-rail system was adopted - the London & South Western had already made a start on this before the merger. By 1939 the Southern had almost all of its London commuter lines electrified, plus its semi-rural (or outer-suburban, depending on how you define it) lines to Brighton itself, and Portsmouth - 50 and 70 miles from London. The nearest US equivalent would be the eastern end of the LIRR.

Extensions after the war were to Dover in 1959, and eventually in 1968 to Southampton and Bournemouth - this coinciding with the end of steam working, which had co-existed incongruously with third-rail electrics for 40 years. The final extension, from Bournemouth to Weymouth in 1988, took the third-rail over 140 miles from London, of which the 90 miles west of Basingstoke definitely falls within your “rural” category, though with some important towns en route.

No further extensions are - in theory - to be allowed, for safety reasons. This causes something a headache in a couple of cases where relatively short infill schemes would be useful.

 

[Dakota 400]

Interestingly, Dakota 400’s post doesn’t make it clear whether the experience was at “Penn classic” or the new Moynihan Train Hall. The latter is fully ADA-compliant and step-free access should be - and, I believe is - available from the taxi drop-off point.

My experience was at "Penn Classic" and I was dropped off at the 8th Avenue side of the building. I didn't know any better; I thought both entrances to the station would have passenger friendly services.

 

[Barb Stout]

My experience was at "Penn Classic" and I was dropped off at the 8th Avenue side of the building. I didn't know any better; I thought both entrances to the station would have passenger friendly services.

redacted

 

[Barb Stout]

Interestingly, Dakota 400’s post doesn’t make it clear whether the experience was at “Penn classic” or the new Moynihan Train Hall. The latter is fully ADA-compliant and step-free access should be - and, I believe is - available from the taxi drop-off point.

I wonder if the average taxi driver would have that knowledge (for drop-offs) and if so, if it would be at the top of said driver's mind. I doubt the latter but have no idea of the former.

 

[fdaley]

I was in both New York and Chicago last February just before the pandemic. Actually, I read later that there were probably 10,000 Covid cases in NYC by then, even though we still thought it was confined to a few places on the West Coast. In Chicago, I saw someone wearing a face mask for the first time. Your report certainly made me think about how much we lost over the past year and how being able to travel again is at once gratifying and somehow bittersweet. I'm glad your trip went so well -- and glad to read that Lou Mitchell's has survived. We are looking forward to our first train ride since the pandemic next month (a day run from Maine back to upstate NY), and I hope to see the Moynihan station for myself later this summer.

 

[JontyMort]

I wonder if the average taxi driver would have that knowledge (for drop-offs) and if so, if it would be at the top of said driver's mind. I doubt the latter but have no idea of the former.

I actually wondered that. The drop-off point(s) for Moynihan are on 31st and/or 33rd Street, but maybe that information is taking a while to filter through, since for Penn the drop-offs are on 7th and/or 8th Avenue, aren’t they? I’m “asking for a friend” since I’m hoping to be getting there by taxi in September.

 

[MARC Rider]

Access to and from "Penn Classic" is going to be an ongoing issue. First of all, most passengers arriving at Penn are going to be disgorged into the old station, as only the two escalators at the far west end of the platforms take you directly into Moynihan Train Hall. If you are in the old station, access to Moynihan is either from the lower LIRR concourse or by ascending to the surface and crossing 8th Ave. If you need an elevator, the path is even more circuitous, and thus confusing to people who don't know the station. The signage directing people between the two waiting areas is not the best, though it's true that the LIRR concourse is under major construction, and things may improve when that's finished. And many Amtrak passengers may not want or need to use Moynihan Train Hall, as they are transferring to LIRR, NJT, or the subway.

The state of New York has been soliciting opinions about to form the renovated old Station should take. The main choice is between continuing the old 2-level underground layout or rebuilding as a single level train hall. I would opt for the single level train hall, as it reduces confusion about the station layout. It would also allow a more spacious architectural design, more in line with Moynihan, Grand Central Terminal, and 30th St. Station in Philly. That's really one of the strong points of the design of 30th St. Station in Philly. You walk in, and you can see the whole layout. (OK, except for the upper level SEPTA trains, but the waymarking is pretty obvious.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Access to and from "Penn Classic" is going to be an ongoing issue. First of all, most passengers arriving at Penn are going to be disgorged into the old station, as only the two escalators at the far west end of the platforms take you directly into Moynihan Train Hall. If you are in the old station, access to Moynihan is either from the lower LIRR concourse or by ascending to the surface and crossing 8th Ave. If you need an elevator, the path is even more circuitous, and thus confusing to people who don't know the station. The signage directing people between the two waiting areas is not the best, though it's true that the LIRR concourse is under major construction, and things may improve when that's finished. And many Amtrak passengers may not want or need to use Moynihan Train Hall, as they are transferring to LIRR, NJT, or the subway.

The state of New York has been soliciting opinions about to form the renovated old Station should take. The main choice is between continuing the old 2-level underground layout or rebuilding as a single level train hall. I would opt for the single level train hall, as it reduces confusion about the station layout. It would also allow a more spacious architectural design, more in line with Moynihan, Grand Central Terminal, and 30th St. Station in Philly. That's really one of the strong points of the design of 30th St. Station in Philly. You walk in, and you can see the whole layout. (OK, except for the upper level SEPTA trains, but the waymarking is pretty obvious.)

DITTO!!

 

[Dakota 400]

I wonder if the average taxi driver would have that knowledge (for drop-offs) and if so, if it would be at the top of said driver's mind. I doubt the latter but have no idea of the former.

My thought was and is as to why the taxi driver dropped me off on the 8th Avenue side of the station: I was coming from my hotel in the financial district of the City. We were going North. 8th Avenue is one way North. When we got to the station, drop off this fare, and then proceed on to get another fare. He probably could have cared less whether that was the best drop-off point or not. To drop me off on the 7th Avenue side, he would have to go on a cross street to get to 7th Avenue which goes South.