So, I got to wondering...in The Untouchables, the climax centers around Capone's men rushing to get his accountant onto a midnight train from Chicago to Miami. Aside from the fact that they would have been hard-pressed to make it to the tracks in the three or so minutes that they allowed for reaching the train (images of an anti-climax where the mobsters miss the train by 30 seconds only for the cops to show up then, or of the cops bribing an IC conductor to get his train out of the station two minutes early come to mind), I'm suddenly wondering if there ever was a midnight train from Chicago to Miami (or, for that matter, any LD train leaving there close to midnight on its "normal" schedule) back in the day. My best guess would be a train passing through from MSP southbound, but even that seems like an odd operation. I know the movie folks probably made the train up, but...was such a train ever run?
Midnight Train from Chicago
- Thread starter Anderson
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It is a matter of record in railroad publications that the Dixie Flyer was taken. It left more like 10 pm. Capone was taken to Atlanta.It was an older style slower heavyweight train. It had been king of the road in it's day but streamliners such as the Dixie Flagler and the Georgian ate away at it's business.
Put it this way: you know all those Southern schedules I sent you
and recently noted? How many more trains operated back then? Like from NYC and WAS to ATL and NOL?
Well the Chicago to Florida business was just like that. Several trains several routes. If you have an old official guide look up railroads like Chicago and Eastern Illinois, Louisville and Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga and ST Louis, Atlantic Coast Line, Florida East Coast, Illinois Central, Central of Georgia, Pennsylvania,Southern New York Central..
George Harris and I have given a rundown of the many trains which used to run midwest to Florida several times though we have not given schedules. This subject comes up when people ask about service from Chicago to Florida.But I understand the focus of your question is the midnight timing.
Do note than any train leaving a major city like Chicago would probably let you board the sleepers earlier, like 9 pm or so.
Actually, come to think of it, Amtraks Floridian was eventualy put on a late night out from Chicago, though not specifically midnight.
Faster trains took one night out, but the Dixie Flyer took two nights to get all the way to Miami.These are the very trains I grew up with, that I did my teething on, so ask me anything.
In my childhood of the 50s a typical Dixie flyer consist would be a bunch of mail cars, maybe 10 or so, 2 or 3 coaches, a diner, two or so pullmans.Its major stops were Evansville, Nashville,Chattanooga,Atlanta. By my day it did not have through sleepers to Miami, only to Jacksonville, In the 40s it had had them.
Put it this way: you know all those Southern schedules I sent you
and recently noted? How many more trains operated back then? Like from NYC and WAS to ATL and NOL?
Well the Chicago to Florida business was just like that. Several trains several routes. If you have an old official guide look up railroads like Chicago and Eastern Illinois, Louisville and Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga and ST Louis, Atlantic Coast Line, Florida East Coast, Illinois Central, Central of Georgia, Pennsylvania,Southern New York Central..
George Harris and I have given a rundown of the many trains which used to run midwest to Florida several times though we have not given schedules. This subject comes up when people ask about service from Chicago to Florida.But I understand the focus of your question is the midnight timing.
Do note than any train leaving a major city like Chicago would probably let you board the sleepers earlier, like 9 pm or so.
Actually, come to think of it, Amtraks Floridian was eventualy put on a late night out from Chicago, though not specifically midnight.
Faster trains took one night out, but the Dixie Flyer took two nights to get all the way to Miami.These are the very trains I grew up with, that I did my teething on, so ask me anything.
In my childhood of the 50s a typical Dixie flyer consist would be a bunch of mail cars, maybe 10 or so, 2 or 3 coaches, a diner, two or so pullmans.Its major stops were Evansville, Nashville,Chattanooga,Atlanta. By my day it did not have through sleepers to Miami, only to Jacksonville, In the 40s it had had them.
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MikefromCrete
Engineer
The Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Railroad ran an overnight Chicago-St. Louis train called the Midnight Special, which left Chicago at about midnight. The song "Midnight Special" recalls the passage of the train past the Joliet state prison, which made the prisoners wish they were on that train. (In 1964, the train left Union Station at 11:25 p.m. and stopped at Joliet at 12:12 a.m., making the passage past the prison at around midnight.)
The Wabash Railroad ran an overnight Chicago-St. Louis train called the Midnight Limited.
As long as we're on the subject of overnight Chicago-St. Louis trains, the Illinois Central's entry was the Night Diamond. The daytime train was the Green Diamond, a reference to the IC's famous herald.
The Chicago and Eastern Illinois Railroad once ran an overnight Chicago-St. Louis train called The Silent Knight. Since the C&EI did not run any towns of any importance on its Chicago-St. Louis run, station stops were few and not very noisy, allowing passengers to sleep, at least that's how the railroad advertised the run. It was the first of the Chicago-St. Louis routes to expire, not making it through the 1920's.
As far as Chicago-Florida trains are concerned, my March 1964 Official Guide shows a 10:30 p.m. departure from Dearborn Station for the Dixie Flyer on the C&EI (and eventually L&N and ACL) for Jacksonville.
The Wabash Railroad ran an overnight Chicago-St. Louis train called the Midnight Limited.
As long as we're on the subject of overnight Chicago-St. Louis trains, the Illinois Central's entry was the Night Diamond. The daytime train was the Green Diamond, a reference to the IC's famous herald.
The Chicago and Eastern Illinois Railroad once ran an overnight Chicago-St. Louis train called The Silent Knight. Since the C&EI did not run any towns of any importance on its Chicago-St. Louis run, station stops were few and not very noisy, allowing passengers to sleep, at least that's how the railroad advertised the run. It was the first of the Chicago-St. Louis routes to expire, not making it through the 1920's.
As far as Chicago-Florida trains are concerned, my March 1964 Official Guide shows a 10:30 p.m. departure from Dearborn Station for the Dixie Flyer on the C&EI (and eventually L&N and ACL) for Jacksonville.
trainman74
Engineer
There's a song called "Dixie Flyer," too -- but Randy Newman either used some poetic license or was misremembering (the song is autobiographical) and gave the name to a Los Angeles-to-New Orleans train. (YouTube link to hear the song)
I am going to surprise everybody and give this a slight chance of maybe.
How so?
It is like this, the Chicago and Eastern Illinois ferried the "real" Dixie Flyer on the Chicago to Evansville portion of its run--and then Evansville to Nashville on the Louisville and Nashville. There were other trains which went from Chicago to Nashville to New Orleans on that route.
It is possible, though I do not recall seeing anything about it, there may have been timetables where the Dixie Flyer to Florida ran combined with some other train as far as Nashville from Chicago to New Orleans.
Some trains did that, almost even up to the last.Such as the famed Humming Bird and Georgian streamliners.
It would mean the passsenger might see the name of two trains running combined, one the Dixie Flyer and the other whatever name it might have been, to NOL. And mistakenly thought his train was the Dixie Flyer. But this is all just conjecture. It is easy for passengers to mistake the name of the train they rode.
At one time or another I have probably seen the names of almost all trains from about 1945 forward and I would certainly have noticed this duplication of one of the trains my parents grew up riding.
So, my best bet is that it is a wholly made up title...but I give it some chance of confusion between two trains running combined as one.
the_traveler
Engineer
If there was a Chicago to Florida train and it went thru Georgia, did that make it "The Midnight Train To Georgia" that the song talked about?
Wow, what was I smoking and drinking for lunch? I screwed this up completely. I heard the words Union Station in the song and jumped to the conclusion that this was someone who rode one train from Chicago to NOL and then a separate NOL to LA. Not so. Forget all my stuff about the Dixie Flyer combining with another train to NOL.....I got it all mixed up. Sorry.
trainman74
Engineer
Was wondering about that. :lol: The song "Dixie Flyer" is about Randy Newman's mother taking the family to live with relatives in Louisiana while his father was abroad fighting in World War II -- the family had been living in Los Angeles, but his mother "didn't know a soul in L.A.," as the lyrics go. So the Union Station mentioned is almost definitely the one in Los Angeles.
The name "Dixie Flyer" seems to be easier to fit into a song than, say, "Sunset Limited." A nice pair of trochees (same as with "Midnight Special").
I found that Al Capone was taken to the federal pen in Atlanta in 1932.
The closest timetable I could find at home for that date was a Nashville Chattanooga and ST. Louis for October 1934
It shows:
lv Chicago 11.25 pm (sleepers open at 9.30)
ar Evansville 6.05 am
lv Evansville 6.17 am
ar Nashville 10.35 am
lv Nashville 10.50 am
ar Chattanooga 2.40 pm
lv Chattanooga 2.55 pm
ar Atlanta 7.05 pm
lv Atlanta 9.00 pm
ar Jacksonville 6,30 am
(change trains, at this time, but not always)
lv Jacksonville 8.45 am
ar Miami 6.55 pm
Scheduling changing around as they do on almost all trains, it easily could have had a midnight departure at times. Also at times through the years it definately had through sleeers to Miami. But Capone ws only going to Atlanta.
The closest timetable I could find at home for that date was a Nashville Chattanooga and ST. Louis for October 1934
It shows:
lv Chicago 11.25 pm (sleepers open at 9.30)
ar Evansville 6.05 am
lv Evansville 6.17 am
ar Nashville 10.35 am
lv Nashville 10.50 am
ar Chattanooga 2.40 pm
lv Chattanooga 2.55 pm
ar Atlanta 7.05 pm
lv Atlanta 9.00 pm
ar Jacksonville 6,30 am
(change trains, at this time, but not always)
lv Jacksonville 8.45 am
ar Miami 6.55 pm
Scheduling changing around as they do on almost all trains, it easily could have had a midnight departure at times. Also at times through the years it definately had through sleeers to Miami. But Capone ws only going to Atlanta.
the_traveler
Engineer
Now I know why Atlanta is such a mess!
The train of question was probably just something made up for the script of the movie. "Leavin' out" at Midnight, has a dramatic element to it.
In any event, if it was a C&EI train, it would have departed from Dearborn Station, right? And if it was an IC, or NYC Big Four Route train, it would have left from Central Station. Could have been an Alton train possibly, by most likely, it was a PRR train to Louisville or Cincinnati leaving from Union Station.
In any event, if it was a C&EI train, it would have departed from Dearborn Station, right? And if it was an IC, or NYC Big Four Route train, it would have left from Central Station. Could have been an Alton train possibly, by most likely, it was a PRR train to Louisville or Cincinnati leaving from Union Station.
B
bill haithcoat
Guest
You are correct about the various stations. But growing up where I did, Chattanooga TN, then moving to Atlanta I do know it as a fact that the train was the Dixie Flyer.I have a personal interest in this. Local lore, pictures articles in local railroad employee magazines, many places through the years I remember this because of the personal connection. Somewhere buried deep I even think I have a photo of them letting him stretch his legs in Chattanooga.
I get your point about the movie showing them leaving from Union Station....that part of the movie is incorrect.
Unlike, ssy, figuring out if some particular train in the 40's was the inspiration for Chattanooga Choo Choo this one is provable. Though it would take me awhile to find it, my apartment is so full.
lthanlon
OBS Chief
Seems odd that Randy Newman's mother wouldn't have known anybody in Los Angeles. Weren't Alfred Newman and Lionel Newman already living there and writing half the music in Hollywood?
