MNRR and LIRR award PTC contract

[jis]

Since this will affect Amtrak NEC service through Connecticut and New York, thought I'd post it here just FYI....

MNRR and LIRR have just awaarded contracts to Bombardier and Siemens to install PTC in the form of ACSES II on all their tracks, which would include the MNRR part of the NEC.

See http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/metro-north-and-mta-long-island-rail-road-ptc-contract-awarded.html

 

[MattW]

What systems already exist from NYP-NRO and NRO-NHV? I was under the impression that this already had ACSES. So if that's true, then was it ACSES-I?

 

[jis]

NRO - NHV just has cab signal. No ACSES.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

both have cabsignal/atc.

 

[MattW]

Ok, first, please forgive me for asking so many questions, but now I'm a little confused about terminology and technology here. I understand that ATC does not necessarily mean ACSES, but does ACSES count as a form of ATC? Why isn't the ATC in place per Dutch a form of PTC?

 

[jis]

The classic ATC does not enforce a stop at Home Signals at Stop. PTC specifications requires it. ACSES enforces a complete stop.

 

[MattW]

Ok, thanks for the clarification!

 

[jis]

Ok, thanks for the clarification!

You're welcome. BTW, ACSES (Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System) also plays the important role of Civil Speed Enforcement which is its primary raison d'etre, as spelled out in its name. For doing so it uses both track mounted transponders (Eurobalise) and a radio link for feeding of TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction), and possibly other transient information of import to the onboard system. It allows finer granularity speed enforcement than is possible with the CTC Cab Signal based speed control.

So for example, at the Elizabeth S Curve, the desired speed limit is 55mph for normal trains and possibly 65 mph for Acelas. However, at present the cab signaling system is used to enforce a 45 mph speed limit (AFAIR) on all by providing all approaching trains with a signal aspect that translates to 45mph. Under full ACSES operation the curve would be protected by transponders with PSR (Permanent Speed Restriction) set for normal trains at 55mph and Acelas at 65 mph and the signaling system would display cab speed or some such. The ACSES system will enforce the transponder specified PSR. Thus Acelas would probably be able to save a minute through the curve. The details of the numbers in this example may be a bit off, but the principle is illustrated.

 

[Thirdrail7]

It looks like there is trouble in paradise. It seems Bombardier and Siemens made quite an error, which jeopardizes the timetable:

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/positive-train-control-deadline-lirr-1.27749548

MTA: LIRR's crash prevention installation slams into problem with improper calibration

MTA committee members hammered representatives from its PTC vendor, a joint venture of Bombardier Transportation and Siemens Rail Automation, for a host of problems. Chief among them: more than 4,000 installed "scanner antennas" recently recalled because of a mistake by the contractor, which is being paid nearly a half-billion dollars — of the $1 billion — to design and manufacture the technology. As a result of the recall, and other new challenges, MTA positive train control project director Deborah Chin said the LIRR and its sister railroad, Metro-North, “do not have a lot of confidence” that the contractor, which operates out of Pittsburgh, will meet its schedule. 

We're in a very bad place right now," acting MTA Chairman Fernando Ferrer said of the latest PTC setbacks. "We need to be in a much better place very soon."

Bombardier and Siemens notified the railroads last month that the scanner antennas already installed on LIRR and Metro-North trains were being recalled because it was recently discovered that the machine used to test the devices at a manufacturing plant had not been calibrated since 2016. 

Ummm...why is this in the Amtrak forum?

 

[Acela150]

Oh lovely....  :unsure:  

If I'm wrong someone can feel free to correct me. But the "antennas" in question are what read the transponders that are installed in the gauge of the tracks. 

Septa, LIRR, Metro-North, etc. Decided to install a version of ACSES for their PTC as either they use Amtrak ROW or Amtrak uses their ROW. 

On a side note how far along to activating PTC on the New Haven and Hudson Lines is the MTA??? 

 

[jis]

Ummm...why is this in the Amtrak forum?

Ummm ... read the first sentence of the first post of the thread. It is explained succinctly. :hi:

 

[west point]

Why is it iin the Amtrak  forum?  Mayb because Amtrak  rides on MNRR  both New Rochelle - New Haven and the Hudson river portion of MNRR.

 

[cpotisch]

Why is it iin the Amtrak  forum?  Mayb because Amtrak  rides on MNRR  both New Rochelle - New Haven and the Hudson river portion of MNRR.

Yes, that's what he already said.

Since this will affect Amtrak NEC service through Connecticut and New York, thought I'd post it here just FYI....

 

[jis]

In my mind the bizarre thing is, even after six years they are still all screwed up. Oh well....

How many Siemens and Bombardier engineers does it take to screw a bulb - err... antenna? :lol:

 

[Thirdrail7]

Ummm ... read the first sentence of the first post of the thread. It is explained succinctly. :hi:

Why is it iin the Amtrak  forum?  Mayb because Amtrak  rides on MNRR  both New Rochelle - New Haven and the Hudson river portion of MNRR.

Yes,   you know that the ACSES  that they are installing is quite different than the ACSES Amtrak installed, which is why there are problems at Harold interlocking.

In this respect, I suppose all of the freight PTC information should go into the Amtrak forum since Amtrak traverses freight railroads....or vice versa? Maybe the LIRR derailment should be in this forum since it did impact Penn Station, which is operated by Amtrak?

This should be in the commuter forum ...you know since it is their territory.

 

[jis]

Heh. Maybe you need to apply for becoming a moderator at AU so that you can correct all this malarkey [emoji849]

Personally I don’t care much where it goes. I just posted it where I did because it seemed like a reasonable thing to do and of course the moderators could move it to wherever they want. Sorry for upsetting you so much [emoji57]

Please accept my humble apology Oh exalted one![emoji1374]

 

[Thirdrail7]

Heh. Maybe you need to apply for becoming a moderator at AU so that you can correct all this malarkey

What a splendid idea.  You DO need a lot of work.