More Night Trains for Europe

[Willbridge]

International Railway Journal in the July issue reports that the Dutch and Belgian sleeper line start-ups have agreed to merge as European Sleeper. Cooperating with RegioJet they would start with a Brussels<>Amsterdam<>Berlin<>Prague line. Reading between the lines, both firms were discovering how difficult it is to set up a rail service on someone else's tracks.

In the meantime a private French start-up called Midnight Trains is going through the same struggle.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

International Railway Journal in the July issue reports that the Dutch and Belgian sleeper line start-ups have agreed to merge as European Sleeper. Cooperating with RegioJet they would start with a Brussels<>Amsterdam<>Berlin<>Prague line. Reading between the lines, both firms were discovering how difficult it is to set up a rail service on someone else's tracks.

European Sleeper has the easy part, just hook on to a RegioJet train, and provide service. There biggest issue is RegioJet may replace them at some point.

In the meantime a private French start-up called Midnight Trains is going through the same struggle.

Midnight Trains has a bigger issue, as there selling up-scale service and equipment in France. Best of luck to them.

 

[Mailliw]

OBB just dropped a clip of the new Nightjet interiors on YouTube.

 

[cirdan]

Midnight Trains has a bigger issue, as there selling up-scale service and equipment in France. Best of luck to them.

Providing any independent rail service in France is a nightmare, upscale or not. The entire access system is tilted to favor the incumbent.

 

[Mailliw]

Also Paris doesn't have a central train station they could use as a hub.

 

[Mailliw]

SJ is extending their Stockholm-Hamburg train all the way to Berlin, but apparently their sleeping cars still don't have approval from Denmark. This puts them in more direct competition with Snalltaget (which doesn't have sleepers, but does have a dining car.)
https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/main-line/sj-extends-overnight-train-to-berlin/

 

[BlackDiamond]

SJ is extending their Stockholm-Hamburg train all the way to Berlin, but apparently their sleeping cars still don't have approval from Denmark. This puts them in more direct competition with Snalltaget (which doesn't have sleepers, but does have a dining car.)
https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/main-line/sj-extends-overnight-train-to-berlin/

According to their web site Snalltaget has both private and shared compartments. I was watching a review of this trip a few days ago IIRC they were couchettes but you could reserve the whole compartment for yourself (for a price)

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

SJ is extending their Stockholm-Hamburg train all the way to Berlin, but apparently their sleeping cars still don't have approval from Denmark. This puts them in more direct competition with Snalltaget (which doesn't have sleepers, but does have a dining car.)
https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/main-line/sj-extends-overnight-train-to-berlin/

I think there was once service via Trelleborg and a ferry to Berlin (back when the DDR was infested with Swedish pop stars - much like the Bundesrepublik). I'm sort of somewhat surprised that two EU countries can't agree on an approval.

 

[cirdan]

I think there was once service via Trelleborg and a ferry to Berlin (back when the DDR was infested with Swedish pop stars - much like the Bundesrepublik). I'm sort of somewhat surprised that two EU countries can't agree on an approval.

yes, this wasn't discontinued until quite recently. I can't find the exact date but I don't think it was more than 10 years ago. During the final years the train ran in the summer only and was poorly advertised. The German port was Sassnitz during DDR times and later moved to Mukran. I believe the service was discontinued over tightened safety and fire protection regulations. The ferry still runs, but without passenger trains.

 

[jis]

According to their web site Snalltaget has both private and shared compartments. I was watching a review of this trip a few days ago IIRC they were couchettes but you could reserve the whole compartment for yourself (for a price)

Indeed they do. I watched a video about it the other day done in the 2022 season. It runs March through October I believe:

https://www.snalltaget.se/en/berlin
It runs across Storbelt between Denmark and Sweden.

Here is what Eurail has to say about it:

https://www.eurail.com/en/get-inspired/trains-europe/night-trains/berlin-night-express
Apparently tickets are bookable on both through services from Stockholm to Berlin in late June.

https://www.sj.se/en/kop-resa/valj-resa/Stockholm Central/Berlin Hbf/2023-06-20
Here's the blurb from SJ:

https://www.sj.se/en/travel-info/sj-euronight.html

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I just checked the SJ sajt for booking just for the heck of it. There's a Eurocity in June when Snälltåget Nattåg is running. Interestingly the Eurocity is about an hour quicker/faster than Snälltåget and appears to be double the price - SJ is from 564 SEK to 1060 SEK for Snälltåget. Don't know the difference in service and cost since the SJ train is also a "from" price.

 

[jis]

I just checked the SJ sajt for booking just for the heck of it. There's a Eurocity in June when Snälltåget Nattåg is running. Interestingly the Eurocity is about an hour quicker/faster than Snälltåget and appears to be double the price - SJ is from 564 SEK to 1060 SEK for Snälltåget. Don't know the difference in service and cost since the SJ train is also a "from" price.

The Sleeper price on SJ is also over SEK 1,000. I think the lower price is for Coach.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

The Sleeper price on SJ is also over SEK 1,000. I think the lower price is for Coach.

Oh definitely - I found the way they were listed to be kind of interesting.

 

[jpakala]

This indicates the trains use a tunnel and then bridge whereas highway uses only bridging.
The Great Belt Bridge (Danish: Storebæltsbroen) or Great Belt fixed link (Danish: Storebæltsforbindelsen) is a multi-element fixed link crossing the Great Belt strait between the Danish islands of Zealand and Funen. It consists of a road suspension bridge and a railway tunnel between Zealand and the small island Sprogø in the middle of the Great Belt, and a box-girder bridge for both road and rail traffic between Sprogø and Funen. The total length is 18 kilometres (11 mi).[2]

 

[slasher-fun]

SJ is extending their Stockholm-Hamburg train all the way to Berlin, but apparently their sleeping cars still don't have approval from Denmark. This puts them in more direct competition with Snalltaget (which doesn't have sleepers, but does have a dining car.)
https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/main-line/sj-extends-overnight-train-to-berlin/

Their sleeping cars have been certified a few weeks ago, and are now part of the regular consist

yes, this wasn't discontinued until quite recently. I can't find the exact date but I don't think it was more than 10 years ago. During the final years the train ran in the summer only and was poorly advertised. The German port was Sassnitz during DDR times and later moved to Mukran. I believe the service was discontinued over tightened safety and fire protection regulations. The ferry still runs, but without passenger trains.

This was in 2020, and only because Stena Line ceased operating the ferry route. I was lucky enough to be on one of the latest trains operated via this route in December 2019, on a schedule that had the Berlin-Malmö leg operated during "daytime" (Berlin 11:23 - Malmö 20:57... it got dark around 17:00 )
I didn't plan at that time that the route would be discontinued (or actually rerouted), my main idea was to catch one of the last EC Copenhagen-Hamburg on the Rødby - Puttgarden ferry.

I just checked the SJ sajt for booking just for the heck of it. There's a Eurocity in June when Snälltåget Nattåg is running. Interestingly the Eurocity is about an hour quicker/faster than Snälltåget and appears to be double the price - SJ is from 564 SEK to 1060 SEK for Snälltåget. Don't know the difference in service and cost since the SJ train is also a "from" price.

Not an Eurocity, but an Euronight, which is the train SJ operates (in partnership with DSB for the Danish part, and RDC for the rolling stock).

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

European Sleeper tickets are on sale this week. Not yet open to general public just people on there mailing list.

From Seat61 news:

New Nightjets from December 2023...​

It's reported unofficially that the 3-per-week Brussels-Vienna Nightjet is set to become daily from the timetable change in December this year, combined with a new daily Nightjet from Brussels to Berlin (this is in addition to European Sleeper 's new Brussels-Berlin train starting in May), so yes, TWO sleeper trains Brussels-Berlin!).

Of course, all this is all predicated on ÖBB's new generation Nightjets entering service between Vienna/Munich & Italy as scheduled, releasing the necessary Comfortline sleeping-cars & couchette cars for these new & expanded trains. ÖBB won't confirm all this officially until later this year

https://www.seat61.com/news.htm
Seem OBB Nightjet is also thinking about running on the same route. Not sure if this was a planned route or a response to European Sleepers service. Plenty of routes that could use a overnight sleeper train a bit early for aggressive competition.

 

[slasher-fun]

ÖBB's Bruxelles-Berlin had been planned for a while, so it's not a response to European Sleeper. It will be taking a different route: European Sleeper runs via the Netherlands, ÖBB will run via Frankfurt (and probably Mannheim) to meet and mix with the train to/from Paris.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

International Railway Journal in the July issue reports that the Dutch and Belgian sleeper line start-ups have agreed to merge as European Sleeper. Cooperating with RegioJet they would start with a Brussels<>Amsterdam<>Berlin<>Prague line. Reading between the lines, both firms were discovering how difficult it is to set up a rail service on someone else's tracks.

Seem the merger did not last very long. Only two guys from European Sleeper taken a bow at the start up.

European Sleeper has the easy part, just hook on to a RegioJet train, and provide service. Their biggest issue is RegioJet may replace them at some point.

I was mistaken European Sleeper is not running any yellow (RegioJet) railcars.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Apparently European Sleeper is having trouble with their equipment. Not otherwise specified, but complaining about the age of the equipment, and how there working on getting better equipment.

Due to technical failures, there are problems with some facilities on board our train at the moment. We are dealing with comfortable but relatively old carriages for now, as there are no alternatives available on the market. That is why we are already preparing the acquisition of our own modernized coaches. We are doing everything we can to restore the amenities and further improve the service on board.

Summer time ever serviceable couchette and sleeper is on the road working. Add on bonus a really hot summer and the rental rates for a couchette with AC must be very high.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I've been getting ads on YouTube for purchasing shares in a night train company - which seems to be Netherlands based as the ads are in Dutch. The cars themselves to not appear to be new and have limited destinations (Berlin to Amsterdam iirc) so far. I'm intrigued by the concept, but wonder how far it'll go.

 

[Willbridge]

I've been getting ads on YouTube for purchasing shares in a night train company - which seems to be Netherlands based as the ads are in Dutch. The cars themselves to not appear to be new and have limited destinations (Berlin to Amsterdam iirc) so far. I'm intrigued by the concept, but wonder how far it'll go.

That's the start-up that actually has gotten underway. It's all second-hand equipment; they're raising money to buy new cars. It's a risky venture, but enthusiasts have bought shares.

 

[jiml]

That's the start-up that actually has gotten underway. It's all second-hand equipment; they're raising money to buy new cars. It's a risky venture, but enthusiasts have bought shares.

There's a recent YouTube video showing one of the current trains but I can't find it right now. It's a topic that's sure to attract all the "usual suspects" for reviews however, so more will appear.

 

[JWM]

European Sleeper is using second hand sleeping cars. No compartments have their own showers and toilets. There have been a/c issues and more. If you like casinos, a small investment might be fun. A much better organization, Midnight Trains, is starting from scratch and will start running in 2024. I have included the links for both below. In the meantime, "Nightjet", with the backing of Austrian Federal Railways, is going gang busters and with new equipment coming shortly. Their "Comfortline" sleepers might be a good fit for European Sleeper above.
https://www.europeansleeper.eu/enhttps://www.midnight-trains.com/en/home

 

[cirdan]

That's the start-up that actually has gotten underway. It's all second-hand equipment; they're raising money to buy new cars. It's a risky venture, but enthusiasts have bought shares.

With all the new services starting up, even reasonable second hand equipment must be pretty scarce these days. I'm surprised actually that so much usable second hand equipment could be found at all. But sooner or later the sources will run dry.

That said, it looks like a golden age for railfan photographers, with many consists looking very mixed these days with cars from all sorts of different sources and ages all jumbled up together.

 

[cirdan]

European Sleeper is using second hand sleeping cars. No compartments have their own showers and toilets. There have been a/c issues and more. If you like casinos, a small investment might be fun. A much better organization, Midnight Trains, is starting from scratch and will start running in 2024. I have included the links for both below. In the meantime, "Nightjet", with the backing of Austrian Federal Railways, is going gang busters and with new equipment coming shortly. Their "Comfortline" sleepers might be a good fit for European Sleeper above.
https://www.europeansleeper.eu/enhttps://www.midnight-trains.com/en/home

From what I've been reading on European forums, Nightjet are having problems with getting their new equipment approved, and some of it will probably not be coming online as soon as OBB's bold and optimistic predictions would have us believe. Some of the legacy stuff will have to do at least another season.