New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

[MARC Rider]

Also, I was not too impressed with the cafe car menu on either the flex dining trains or the full-dining Texas Eagle. Not all that much variety, and some items were not available on some of the trains. I'm not sure why the national cafe car menu couldn't be closer to that of the Northeast Regional. I believe I've heard that the Northeast Regional cafe cars are not losing money, so it would be a good model for the rest of the system.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

But advocates of decent on-board service also need to explain to skeptical politicians and the public about why decent on-board service standards are an important and even essential aspect of providing passenger rail service.

Thanks for your report and thoughts. I’ve been interested in reading the different members thoughts on the service.

Regarding the quote above... as long as sleeping cars are sold above the cost of domestic first class, I think food service at least as good as domestic first class should be offered. As thirdrail mentioned, taking away the diners completely and lowering the cost of sleepers as was done on the Star, would be a better option for everyone in my opinion.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Yes I know that. I was suggesting the chef position should have not been eliminated but kept instead of the LSA position.

Why does that even matter? If you change the classification so they handle money and serve food, all you've done is convert the position into the current LSA position, who already heat and serve food as part of their job description.

How are you quite sure? Do you know what Amtrak is paying for the frozen meals vs. the previous food?

There is a lot more to the costs than the actual food. Even if you were to think the past food costs the same as the current food, I know what no longer needs support. I also know there was an existing support structure for preheated meals (such as what is being served in the cafe) that supports the current model. The delivery and labor associated are definitely cheaper when you can close down entire buildings and operations that will no longer be used to store or support fresh food operations.

There are a lot more job cuts besides the actually onboard staff.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Why does that even matter? If you change the classification so they handle money and serve food, all you've done is convert the position into the current LSA position, who already heat and serve food as part of their job description.

I was suggesting to keep a chef with food that was at least somewhat cooked on board. I was saying “what if.”

But yeah now I get it, you’re saying the commissary that handles the cafe cars can handle the new diners? So there was a dining car commissary closed down. Or multiples I guess?

 

[user 14106]

I was suggesting to keep a chef with food that was at least somewhat cooked on board. I was saying “what if.”

But yeah now I get it, you’re saying the commissary that handles the cafe cars can handle the new diners? So there was a dining car commissary closed down. Or multiples I guess?

I don’t think it’s really the position/job clarification that matters. It’s how much preparation of fresh food can a single staff member be expected to do. They want the pre heated meals because it’s cheaper all around.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I don’t think it’s really the position/job clarification that matters. It’s how much preparation of fresh food can a single staff member be expected to do. They want the pre heated meals because it’s cheaper all around.

The eastern trains only had 1 chef.

 

[PVD]

Yes, pretty sure it was one chef, but I think there was an additional position called food specialist or food prep specialist (not sure of exact name) that supplemented the chef on some trains.

 

[PVD]

Yes, I think there was an additional position called food specialist or food prep specialist (not sure of exact name) that supplemented the chef.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Yes, pretty sure it was one chef, but I think there was an additional position called food specialist or food prep specialist (not sure of exact name) that supplemented the chef on some trains.

Some trains. But not the eastern trains afaik. Maybe the capitol when it had the real plates and glassware.

 

[Austruck]

I'm diabetic, and typically the diner car breakfasts were my easiest low-carb meals. I ordered simply bacon and eggs and coffee. None of the current breakfast options are diabetic friendly like that. Might have to pull apart a breakfast sandwich and skip whatever bread-item it's housed in... (sigh)

 

[PVD]

I wasn't sure, thought I may have seen one on the LSL when it was operating without the full diner and using the AM-2 diner-lite

 

[Thirdrail7]

Some trains. But not the eastern trains afaik. Maybe the capitol when it had the real plates and glassware.

The eastern trains had a food specialist position until things were scaled back. It was gradual. AS you stated, the Crapitol lost their specialist when they cut back the consist a few years ago. The Late For Sre lost their specialist when they cut the dining car a few years ago. The Pigeon lost its specialist when they went to a simplified dining service, utilizing the LSA for the functions. The Starvation lost everything and everybody. The Crescent quietly lost their specialist when they "rationalized" their consist. After all, you had two sleepers and two coaches, in the winter. They would occasionally add the position in the summer if the numbers called for it.

The Streak retained its specialist until recently. The Auto Pain still has its food specialist positions.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The eastern trains had a food specialist position until things were scaled back. It was gradual. AS you stated, the Crapitol lost their specialist when they cut back the consist a few years ago. The Late For Sre lost their specialist when they cut the dining car a few years ago. The Pigeon lost its specialist when they went to a simplified dining service, utilizing the LSA for the functions. The Starvation lost everything and everybody. The Crescent quietly lost their specialist when they "rationalized" their consist. After all, you had two sleepers and two coaches, in the winter. They would occasionally add the position in the summer if the numbers called for it.

The Streak retained its specialist until recently. The Auto Pain still has its food specialist positions.

I remember riding the Lake Short and Crescent and only seeing 1 chef. Trying to remember if I ever saw more than 1 on the Star and Meteor. It would seem the Meteor might have needed one with the extra sleeper but I don't recall.

When you say "things were scaled back" are you talking about the Simplified Dining Service? (and we all thought the sky was falling then!) or are you talking about more recently?

 

[Chey]

San Marcos, where I went to High School and College as did my darling daughter!( there were no Chain Joints there in those days, just Mom and Pops! And Really Bad Flooding!!!)

Yeah, I remember wondering if we were going to be able to take the Eagle from there to FTW that Spring a few years ago when the rains broke the drought for the 1st time in 10 years [it made it but there were big problems a day or two later]. And BTW, what I saw of the town was really pretty.

 

[Qapla]

I agree that reducing the quality/quantity of the food service should result in cheaper sleeper prices - that said ...

My work and travels take me into many Convenience Stores of various brands. most of them offer breakfast and lunch items. I know these are not "1st class" offerings ... however, there are usually very few clerks in a convenience store and they handle sales, receiving, cleaning as well as keeping the hot foods hot and the cold foods cold and all of them stocked in far more quantities that any train offers.

They manage to offer food that is better than much of what I have had on the train, a wider variety of that food, and in much better condition even when "kept hot" than some of the "freshly heated" food I have had from the cafe car.

They do this and turn a profit!

If a Convenience Store can do this with less employees who are most likely paid less than Amtrak personnel - Amtrak should be able to do this also.

 

[pennyk]

I agree that reducing the quality/quantity of the food service should result in cheaper sleeper prices - that said ...

My work and travels take me into many Convenience Stores of various brands. most of them offer breakfast and lunch items. I know these are not "1st class" offerings ... however, there are usually very few clerks in a convenience store and they handle sales, receiving, cleaning as well as keeping the hot foods hot and the cold foods cold and all of them stocked in far more quantities that any train offers.

They manage to offer food that is better than much of what I have had on the train, a wider variety of that food, and in much better condition even when "kept hot" than some of the "freshly heated" food I have had from the cafe car.

They do this and turn a profit!

If a Convenience Store can do this with less employees who are most likely paid less than Amtrak personnel - Amtrak should be able to do this also.

I do not think it is a fair comparison between a convience store clerk heating up a few items and running a cash register to the LSA in the Sleeper Lounge on the Silver Meteor who may have to feed up to 90 sleeper passengers during a several hour period of time. The LSA heats the food, plates the heated entrees and desserts, gets the beverages/ice from refrigerators/cabinets/ice maker, boxes the meals for consumption in the lounge, bags the meals for delivery, presents the food either to the passenger or SCA (if for delivery), and in the case of elderly or disabled passengers (of which there are many on the Silver Meteor) delivers the meal and beverages to the table.

 

[Qapla]

You may be right ... with the lunch rush in a convenience store running to more than 300 customers in an hours time - it may not be a fair comparison.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I do not think it is a fair comparison between a convience store clerk heating up a few items and running a cash register to the LSA in the Sleeper Lounge on the Silver Meteor who may have to feed up to 90 sleeper passengers during a several hour period of time. The LSA heats the food, plates the heated entrees and desserts, gets the beverages/ice from refrigerators/cabinets/ice maker, boxes the meals for consumption in the lounge, bags the meals for delivery, presents the food either to the passenger or SCA (if for delivery), and in the case of elderly or disabled passengers (of which there are many on the Silver Meteor) delivers the meal and beverages to the table.

Yes and no. The LSA job is still pretty easy compared to most fast paced food service jobs in my opinion.

Hard to directly compare. But at my local coffee shop I never see the employees sitting down at a revenue table just chatting with co-workers. They are always serving customers and if they have downtime they are cleaning tables, brewing more coffee, stocking, etc.

 

[Thirdrail7]

You may be right ... with the lunch rush in a convenience store running to more than 300 customers in an hours time - it may not be a fair comparison.

Yes and no. The LSA job is still pretty easy compared to most fast paced food service jobs in my opinion.

Hard to directly compare. But at my local coffee shop I never see the employees sitting down at a revenue table just chatting with co-workers. They are always serving customers and if they have downtime they are cleaning tables, brewing more coffee, stocking, etc.

You're right...after all, the people at the convenience store employees can leave the store, take a break elsewhere, are typically standing on steady ground and generally have support nearby. There is nothing like those convenience store workers that leave their house and disappear for a week at a time, with LARGE swaths of it being unpaid, while being confined to the store (because they can't step out or anything,) with the customers.

Yes...how rough those 4 to 8 hour shifts must be in comparison. I mean, I know I hate it when my convenience store is 8 hours late and hits a truck while I'm preparing soup, so I imagine the staff must hate it too!

At any rate, enjoy your cuts because ridership and revenue have climbed.

If the year to year train ridership comparison doesn't show a drop on the trains which converted to contemporary/flexible/simplified dining, the trend will continue...and why not? If there are no consequences, why not double down?

Watch out, Auto train!

 

[user 14106]

The eastern trains only had 1 chef.

What I meant is when that one crew member had to do all the preparation, serving, inventory, etc.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

You're right...after all, the people at the convenience store employees can leave the store, take a break elsewhere, are typically standing on steady ground and generally have support nearby. There is nothing like those convenience store workers that leave their house and disappear for a week at a time, with LARGE swaths of it being unpaid, while being confined to the store (because they can't step out or anything,) with the customers.

Yes...how rough those 4 to 8 hour shifts must be in comparison. I mean, I know I hate it when my convenience store is 8 hours late and hits a truck while I'm preparing soup, so I imagine the staff must hate it too!

At any rate, enjoy your cuts because ridership and revenue have climbed.

If the year to year train ridership comparison doesn't show a drop on the trains which converted to contemporary/flexible/simplified dining, the trend will continue...and why not? If there are no consequences, why not double down?

Watch out, Auto train!

And the Amtrak lsa is making at least double what the ground based service jobs are getting paid. Plus benefits.

By the way I’ve prepared and served food on a moving train on a mainline railroad for my job... I’m well aware things are not directly comparable.

That being said you are totally correct...
If ridership is not being affected (and it’s not...) than we will see it expand. Hopefully the quality can get bumped up a little bit still. We know they want to allow pre-order of meals so hopefully that will allow a complete gluten-free meal option, and other improvements.

 

[Thirdrail7]

If the year to year train ridership comparison doesn't show a drop on the trains which converted to contemporary/flexible/simplified dining, the trend will continue...and why not? If there are no consequences, why not double down?

Watch out, Auto train!

Forgive the rant and aside, but how does this keep happening?

They raise the fares and people continue to ride.

They cut the amenities and people continue to ride.

They cancel trains for weeks at a time and people continue to ride.

Perhaps all the hand wringing in the thread and talk of slippery slopes is irrelevant to what the majority of riders are willing to accept.

As a disclaimer, I don't fly. As such, I'm not that familiar with what occurs.

As such, here is my theory:

The bar has been set so low, that what is occurring on the trains is normal. Heck, it may even be a step up for people that aren't accustomed to receiving "value." The company is betting on it and grooming people for the future....and it appears to be working.

Whatever.

 

[Thirdrail7]

And the Amtrak lsa is making at least double what the ground based service jobs are getting paid. Plus benefits.

Source, please? Additionally, I'd like you to quantify that purported salary difference against the quality of life and consider away time (paid versus unpaid), held over time (unpaid) and downtime (unpaid...per trip) and training (under CFR emergency preparedness plan and FDA training, which is a must for LSAs, Chefs and Food specialists) required.

Then, tell me if it is double.

Thanks.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Glassdoor.com says the average lsa salary is $23 per hour. Is that correct or incorrect?

If it is... that’s double what the average coffee shop employee is making.

As for quality of life... that’s a whole different thing. Some may enjoy the so many days on and so many days off (which varies from train to train) schedule more than the typical 40 hour work week and sleep at home always. That’s a personal decision.

 

[pennyk]

In my opinion, on the Silver Meteor, the LSAs are working harder and are making fewer tips. The SCAs are also working harder (as an SCA and a server). I assume their tips are greater but I am not sure. I know many of the crew members and have made 4 trips on the Silver Meteor in a sleeper after October 1st. I do like the ability to spend time in the Sleeper Lounge and chat with other passengers. I have yet to talk to a passenger who likes the flex dining meals better than the traditional dining meals. I have yet to speak to an SCA who likes the flex dining meal service more than traditional dining. Generally, the LSAs do not have to chat.

Because of the age demographics on the Silver Meteor and the difficulty some passengers have carrying food on a moving train, I have offered to assist passengers carrying their food (and cleaning their tables). Although I am a "senior," I have very good balance "for my age."