Train 40-41 Floridian Miami - Chicago via Washington DC 2025

[railiner]

There are no HOS regulations governing rail onboard service crews.

Any limits that might exist would be the result of Union agreements. I do not know whether there are or are not such clauses in the contract.

I do know on the turn of a late train at the OBS away terminal, if the crew normally turns with the train, such as 8's OBS crew at Chicago, they'll go out on the turned consist no matter how little rest they have. Also, OBS crew usually has to report significantly earlier than scheduled departure, like 1 to 2 hours.

So basically, the DOT disregards their utility in emergency evacuation or other safety roles…

 

[Cal]

So basically, the DOT disregards their utility in emergency evacuation or other safety roles…

Are they trained for evacuation or anything like that?

 

[zephyr17]

So basically, the DOT disregards their utility in emergency evacuation or other safety roles…

Well, yeah. Also consider OBS crew are off duty from about 10 pm to 6 am. Coach attendants are usually out of their cars in their sleeping accommodations during those hours, unless there's a big late night stop, and SCAs often are. On Superliners, at least, in my experience, about half the time they'll go to transdorm accommodations during their overnight off-duty hours and do not stay in Roomette 1. A lot of the time only conductors are in the body of the train in the late night and early morning hours. The OBS crews are in their sleeping accommodations, often every single one of them in the transdorm.

T&E crews are forbidden from sleeping onboard. OBS crews are expected to sleep onboard and have off-duty time to do it.

 

[ScotiaBound]

When tracking you need to consider crews as well. 40/41 are run by Toledo crews, not Chicago crews. So if 40 is really late getting into Chicago, 41 will have to wait for the same crew to get its rest before it can take 41.

jb

A) Winter
B) Late arrival
C) Chicago

If your track a train you need to track the inbound not just the outbound, and yes maybe there holding the train for the Empire Builder. It’s not policy but maybe someone notice the amount of transfer occurring and had the authority to do something about it.

Actually, I am tracking both directions. The 41 because the only car rental closes two hours after scheduled arrival and if it's that late I'll need a backup plan as I still have a long drive to my destination. Similar reason returning on the 40 as I have a long drive home and need to budget for a hotel if it is extremely late.
The outbound journey is most critical which is why I am concerned seeing such late departures from CHI and not seeing time being made up at longer scheduled stops. I thought the schedules were padded to allow for that.

Also, why the 45-minute stop at Savannah now? The Silver Star only stops there for 5 minutes, as did the Meteor, but the Floridian stops for 45.

 

[TrainAttendantLady]

Sorry to take advantage of you to ask a job related question, but when we board at midnight in Pittsburgh are the beds in the roomette likely to be made up or will the attendant need to be asked to do that? I can understand that the staff may not want to guess what the passengers want until they talk to them. Thanks.

We are supposed to have the beds made prior your arrival. If fo some reason that was missed, kindly let the attendant know and he/she will get it done right away.

 

[OBS]

N

Crews don't sit overnight?

Not always

 

[bearcruzer]

Does anyone know what's going on in Chicago with the Floridian?
I began tracking it a few days ago and it's departed from 1 1/2 to over three hours late each day. The reason given is "Late equipment servicing".
I noticed, the last two nights, that it wasn't departing until after the Empire Builder arrived - very late. Could be a coincidence, but either way, it raises questions.

We haven't seen the Builder most days these past couple of weeks. I live a block and a half from the tracks.

 

[railiner]

Well, yeah. Also consider OBS crew are off duty from about 10 pm to 6 am. Coach attendants are usually out of their cars in their sleeping accommodations during those hours, unless there's a big late night stop, and SCAs often are. On Superliners, at least, in my experience, about half the time they'll go to transdorm accommodations during their overnight off-duty hours and do not stay in Roomette 1. A lot of the time only conductors are in the body of the train in the late night and early morning hours. The OBS crews are in their sleeping accommodations, often every single one of them in the transdorm.

T&E crews are forbidden from sleeping onboard. OBS crews are expected to sleep onboard and have off-duty time to do it.

On long transglobal flights, flight attendants rest in crew rest areas, in shifts, but a minimum number are always on duty.
I had thought that was similar on transcontinental trains, with some attendants covering for others during the night.

 

[railiner]

Are they trained for evacuation or anything like that?

Pretty sure they do receive at least some of that in their training. How to operate all doors, escape windows, and use of any fire extinguishers or other emergency equipment on board, as well as evacuation procedures.
Possibly, first aid and CPR.

 

[MARC Rider]

On long transglobal flights, flight attendants rest in crew rest areas, in shifts, but a minimum number are always on duty.
I had thought that was similar on transcontinental trains, with some attendants covering for others during the night.

Maybe someone knows the details, but I was under the impression that flight attendants (and pilots) are the equivalent of the T&E crew on trains, and thus subject to hours of service regulations. Perhaps airline crew are under a different legal authority than train crews, but I think the concept is the same. OBS crew don't fall under those rules.

Now it would be in interesting concept to have all of the T&E crew of a train ride aboard for the whole trip. You'd probably need to get an extra dorm car, but you wouldn't need to have intermediate crew bases or have delays caused by having to transport fresh crew to a train stuck in the middle of nowhere. Not sure if it's practical, but it's an idea.

 

[zephyr17]

On long transglobal flights, flight attendants rest in crew rest areas, in shifts, but a minimum number are always on duty.
I had thought that was similar on transcontinental trains, with some attendants covering for others during the night.

Nope, not on Amtrak. Many people these days seem to assume airline practices extend to Amtrak. By and large they don't and never have.

On VIA the SM and ASM spell each other overnight so someone is always on duty. But on VIA there is no one in T&E service in the body of the train, VIA abolished conductors in the 1990s. Even so, Canada's HOS regs only apply to T&E, someone always being on duty is a VIA rule, not a regulation. BTW, the train cannot move until the SM or ASM confirm to the engineer the train is closed up.

Not sure whether some attendants are also on duty overnight on VIA.

 

[west point]

All F/As required to be at stations for take off and landings and any emergency.

 

[Cal]

Now it would be in interesting concept to have all of the T&E crew of a train ride aboard for the whole trip. You'd probably need to get an extra dorm car, but you wouldn't need to have intermediate crew bases or have delays caused by having to transport fresh crew to a train stuck in the middle of nowhere. Not sure if it's practical, but it's an idea.

Getting qualified on a 2,000+ mile route seems extremely challenging.

 

[west point]

Getting qualified on a 2,000+ mile route seems extremely challenging.

Is that what Australia does?

 

[trimetbusfan]

Also, why the 45-minute stop at Savannah now? The Silver Star only stops there for 5 minutes, as did the Meteor, but the Floridian stops for 45.

Two night trains require a mechanical checkpoint mid-route. Savannah is the mechanical checkpoint for the Floridian. (The same way that Minot ND is on The Builder).

The Meteor is only a one night train, so its mechanical checks can be done at the end of the line in the yard.

 

[railiner]

Maybe someone knows the details, but I was under the impression that flight attendants (and pilots) are the equivalent of the T&E crew on trains, and thus subject to hours of service regulations. Perhaps airline crew are under a different legal authority than train crews, but I think the concept is the same. OBS crew don't fall under those rules.

Now it would be in interesting concept to have all of the T&E crew of a train ride aboard for the whole trip. You'd probably need to get an extra dorm car, but you wouldn't need to have intermediate crew bases or have delays caused by having to transport fresh crew to a train stuck in the middle of nowhere. Not sure if it's practical, but it's an idea.

They’re all under the DOT, but FAA governs air, and FRA, rail.
Pilots are roughly equivalent to Engineers, and Conductor’s fall under hours of service, as well, but Flight Attendants are apparently also, but not Train Attendants.

I agree it would be impractical to qualify engineer’s at such a long distance. Flights have no choice but bring extra relief pilots for long nonstop trips, and there is no extra qualifying requirement.

Sorry to keep this off topic going so long, perhaps it can be moved to another thread?

 

[Cal]

Two night trains require a mechanical checkpoint mid-route. Savannah is the mechanical checkpoint for the Floridian. (The same way that Minot ND is on The Builder).

The Meteor is only a one night train, so its mechanical checks can be done at the end of the line in the yard.

I thought they just kept the checks at the places the Capitol and Star had them?

 

[Bonser]

Boarding late at night the room will be made up in night mode with the berths down. That's pretty much anything after about 8 or 9.

Unfortunately, this hasn't been my experience when boarding LSL in Chicago for a 9:30PM departure. I've always had to wait for the attendant to set up the room. Perhaps most wouldn't want it made up that early.

 

[trimetbusfan]

I thought they just kept the checks at the places the Capitol and Star had them?

The Capitol and Star were 1-night trains, so they didn't need the mid-route (extended) mechanical check..

 

[zephyr17]

Unfortunately, this hasn't been my experience when boarding LSL in Chicago for a 9:30PM departure. I've always had to wait for the attendant to set up the room. Perhaps most wouldn't want it made up that early.

I think that's because it's the origin and people want a chance to settle in. Intermediate stations they tend to do it earlier.

 

[ScotiaBound]

Two night trains require a mechanical checkpoint mid-route. Savannah is the mechanical checkpoint for the Floridian. (The same way that Minot ND is on The Builder).

The Meteor is only a one night train, so its mechanical checks can be done at the end of the line in the yard.

WAS-MIA is less distance than the Meteor's NYC-MIA route, so it seems to me that would be the more logical and closer to mid-route than Savannah.
I know that SAV is the terminus for the Palmetto, so there would be a crew there. Is that why it is chosen over the already lengthy stop at JAX and what occurs during that stop?
I'm afraid my curiosity knows no bounds and I appreciate everyone who is kind enough to satisfy it.

 

[Palmland]

At one time I believe the inspection was required by 1500 miles. Both Savannah and Jax are close to that. I suspect there may be more mechanical personnel at Savannah since a train originates there.

 

[MARC Rider]

I think that's because it's the origin and people want a chance to settle in. Intermediate stations they tend to do it earlier.

Whenever I've gotten on the eastbound Capitol Limited in Toledo (about midnight), the bed was always made up. More recently, when I boarded a late Empire Builder out of Seattle (turned out to be 7:30 PM departure), the bed was already made up. I hung out in the diner, where they had an abbreviated cafe car menu available.

 

[ScotiaBound]

At one time I believe the inspection was required by 1500 miles. Both Savannah and Jax are close to that. I suspect there may be more mechanical personnel at Savannah since a train originates there.

I see.
They must have strange working hours. The Palmetto arrives at 9pm and departs at 8:20 am, then they have to be up and 1am and 3am for the Floridian.
JAX would certainly be of more benefit to the passengers than SAV, given the hours it arrives there.

 

[OBS]

I see.
They must have strange working hours. The Palmetto arrives at 9pm and departs at 8:20 am, then they have to be up and 1am and 3am for the Floridian.
JAX would certainly be of more benefit to the passengers than SAV, given the hours it arrives there.

Not strange at all. They obviously work overnight to service the Palmetto, so, easy to service the Floridian while on duty.