No Business Class on the Coast Starlight

[trimetbusfan]

I was looking ahead and saw that business class is no longer available on the starlight between 1/3 and 3/6?

Those dates are for train 14 originating from LA. For the southbound train 11 originating in Seattle, that time frame would be 1/5 thru 3/8 for 11. Has anyone else know anything about this?

 

[F900ElCapitan]

I’m sure it’s just another opportunity to remove another car.
This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Sidney]

I’m sure it’s just another opportunity to remove another car.
This is getting ridiculous.

They also removed BC from the Lake Shore Chicago-Boston earlier this year. Why? Every LD train should have a Business Class Car. It's a step up from Coach and a lot more affordable than a roomette.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

They also removed BC from the Lake Shore Chicago-Boston earlier this year. WHY? Every LD train should have a Business Class Car. It's a step up from Coach and a lot more affordable than a roomette.

That is a great question, and it could be answered very easily with just a little bit of transparency.

i do like to watch the Starlight go by Chehalis and I’ve noticed a few times lately that a regular coach had been subbed in for the biz class car. They only have 5 cars for the 4 trainsets, so maybe they decided to take them off for a MX window. This is when a quick passenger alert that the service is suspended for this amount of time so they can do whatever would be awesome.

 

[PVD]

The lake swapped its split car for a full cafe car, which is probably much more useful for the train than BC. BC is not that much of a step up from coach on a LD train, it doesn't provide better seating, you may gain some privacy or segregation from general population, but not always. BC was tried on the Crescent and failed to sell well enough to stay,

 

[jis]

Indeed LSL needed a full Amfleet II Cafe to serve the large number of Coach passengers. The half cafe in the BC car was inadequate for providing more critical food service.

 

[Steve4031]

What made the coast starlight BC different from coach cars? I though the main perk was a guarantee of having two seats to yourself. Which is invaluable imho.

 

[Maglev]

What made the coast starlight BC different from coach cars? I though the main perk was a guarantee of having two seats to yourself. Which is invaluable imho.

The seats were upholstered in faux leather, but were otherwise identical to Superliner coach seats. There was never a guarantee of having two seats for one person.

 

[Sidney]

The seats were upholstered in faux leather, but were otherwise identical to Superliner coach seats. There was never a guarantee of having two seats for one person.

Ideally,every long distance train should have one car where you are guaranteed both seats,at a premium,of course. Would be a nice bridge between Coach and a roomette. As a solo traveler a guarantee of both seats on an overnight train would be great.

 

[Steve4031]

I would pay double the high bucket coach fare for two seats. Would never pay a supplement and still be subjected to risk of assignment of seats.

 

[wrowland]

I would pay double the high bucket coach fare for two seats. Would never pay a supplement and still be subjected to risk of assignment of seats.

Agreed. If you need or want two seats so badly just buy two. Hell, why not just buy 4-8, still cheaper than a roomette and that way no one is even near you at all!

 

[Sidney]

Amtrak will not sell you the adjoining seat just to keep it empty.

 

[Steve4031]

I understand why Amtrak would not do this. But I do question the value of BC with a seat mate on a superliner car.

 

[zephyr17]

I understand why Amtrak would not do this. But I do question the value of BC with a seat mate on a superliner car.

BC on the Starlight often had fairly light loads and the attendants would not stuff two singles together if they didn't have to (unlike a common practice in coach). In practice this meant singles frequently got two seats in Starlight BC, but it was never guaranteed and if there was a heavy load you would have a seatmate.

 

[rs9]

The lake swapped its split car for a full cafe car, which is probably much more useful for the train than BC. BC is not that much of a step up from coach on a LD train, it doesn't provide better seating, you may gain some privacy or segregation from general population, but not always. BC was tried on the Crescent and failed to sell well enough to stay,

I don't disagree that more cafe seating is needed for the LSL than the half cafe-half BC car. However, the business class service on the LSL was a nice step-up for people like me - a solo traveler who cannot in any way afford the price of a roomette. The seating is better - even if I was on the side with two seats, there is a physical divider between the person occupying the other seat. There is more privacy with only a max of 17 passengers - and frankly, the lack of privacy was only Amtrak's fault when the BC car was not turned for the return voyage BOS-CHI.

Now, these are just one passenger's opinions, and others are free to disagree. What I find a bit mystifying on these message boards is that the reduction of any level of service for sleeper passengers is met with calls for your choice of [Congressional investigation, replace the board, management should resign, etc.]. When service for non-sleeper passengers is reduced, or in this case eliminated, there's always some sort of functional explanation for it.

 

[PVD]

It may well be a nice step up for some passengers, but that does not make it a good business decision to provide it.

 

[rs9]

It may well be a nice step up for some passengers, but that does not make it a good business decision to provide it.

Lake Shore Limited business class fares were about 60-67% higher than coach fares. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here - I am unclear as to why collecting additional revenue would be a bad business decision. To be clear, I don't believe that the question here is half BC/half cafe car or no BC at all.

A normal coach car designated with 1 x 2 seating, with a 60% fare premium, brings in more revenue than a normally priced coach car.

 

[PVD]

At this time there are no single level 2+1 cars, so it would involve adding an additional AM2 car which they don't have any great surplus of and blocking a seat on one side. There is a real question of whether all those added seats would actually sell. If the car is half empty, you are essentially wasting 3 AM2 cars for no gain. That's close to what happened on the Crescent.

 

[rs9]

At this time there are no single level 2+1 cars, so it would involve adding an additional AM2 car which they don't have any great surplus of and blocking a seat on one side. There is a real question of whether all those added seats would actually sell. If the car is half empty, you are essentially wasting 3 AM2 cars for no gain. That's close to what happened on the Crescent.

Yes, of course - but none of us have any data to argue one way or the other. I will note again - when Amtrak parks a sleeper, it is automatically assumed on this board that there is ample demand to fill it - despite no one having any data.

Sorry, I just find it to be a very weird dichotomy.

 

[trimetbusfan]

So I happened to be on 14(3) which was the first coast starlight to run without a business class. IRONICALLY, one of the coach cars was a business class car. ‘Free upgrade’ for passengers in that car!

The consist was as follows -
Engines 160/22, Sleeper, sleeper, diner, SSL, Coach (with business class seats), Coach/bag

 

[zephyr17]

So I happened to be on 14(3) which was the first coast starlight to run without a business class. IRONICALLY, one of the coach cars was a business class car. ‘Free upgrade’ for passengers in that car!

The consist was as follows -
Engines 160/22, Sleeper, sleeper, diner, SSL, Coach (with business class seats), Coach/bag

One of the reasons I read on FB for the "temporary" removal was because the cars were being withdrawn for refurbishment. Kinda hard to do that while in motion.

 

[Cal]

One of the reasons I read on FB for the "temporary" removal was because the cars were being withdrawn for refurbishment. Kinda hard to do that while in motion.

I thought they were going to the Winter Park Express?

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

One of the reasons I read on FB for the "temporary" removal was because the cars were being withdrawn for refurbishment. Kinda hard to do that while in motion.

Refurbish a car that’s already been refurbished. Sounds about right

 

[Kramerica]

Indeed LSL needed a full Amfleet II Cafe to serve the large number of Coach passengers. The half cafe in the BC car was inadequate for providing more critical food service.

From my experience riding coach with my family in August 2022 on the LSL, the full cafe was barely adequate if not inadequate. Coach was packed; they could have easily used a half cafe half BC car in addition. There were long lines at the cafe quite often, and there was a lack of seating as well.

 

[trimetbusfan]

From my experience riding coach with my family in August 2022 on the LSL, the full cafe was barely adequate if not inadequate. Coach was packed; they could have easily used a half cafe half BC car in addition. There were long lines at the cafe quite often, and there was a lack of seating as well.

This discussion is regarding the coast starlight buisness class, a train which had its own dedicated buisness class car in ADDITION to the sightseer lounge and Coach/sleeper/dining cars. A much different operation than LSL buisness class when it was still around.