Norfolk service ridership news and schedule change

[afigg]

News article in the Virginian Pilot on the Norfolk service which is meeting ridership forecast and upcoming schedule change: Amtrak ticket sales performing as expected. The short summary is 22K riders so far at NFK, the revenues is covering 97% of expenses, and the weekday departure from NFK will be moved to 5 AM starting on July 29. Not that much of a change, but 5 AM sounds better than 4:50 AM. They hope additional upgrades will allow the weekday departure to be moved to 5:05 AM by the end of the year. Presumably the Sat/Sun departures will be pushed out by 10 minutes to 6:15 AM.

Also, work on the station is expected to be completed this summer. With slightly better trip times to WAS, a completed station, I would ridership to steadily grow.

Excerpts:

The Norfolk-to-Washington line - including its stops between Richmond and Union Station - served 58,226 passengers from January to May. That's slightly more than the 58,160 people the national rail operator assumed in its budget for that time. Another 13,766 rode in June, according to Amtrak.
About a third of the travelers are getting on or off in Norfolk. The line served 73,126 passengers from December to May, and about 22,382 of them boarded or stepped off at the Norfolk platform by Harbor Park, said Kevin Page, chief operating officer for the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation

...

Track and crossing improvements along the route have continued since then. That work soon will allow Amtrak to let the weekday Norfolk train leave slightly later in the morning. Departures will move to 5 a.m. from 4:50 a.m. beginning July 29, said Lynne McCarthy, a spokeswoman for the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transit.

Page said he hopes additional upgrades by the end of this year will allow them to push the weekday departure time to 5:05 a.m.

 

[battalion51]

It's amazing to me that with them calling NFK at such horridly early hours that so many people are using the train. Imagine what would happen if they had some decent end point times, and who knows, maybe even multiple frequencies.

 

[Ryan]

Hopefully we won't have to imagine when these things come to pass.

The times really aren't that bad, there is a strong demand down there for day trips to DC. Driving you have to leave at the same time, and you have to be awake for the whole trip. Better to wake up, hit the train and catch a nice nap for another few hours.

 

[jis]

That is roughly one car full per train from/to Norfolk which is indeed pretty good. But I would expect this to grow a bit even without any changes in schedule, as more people become aware.

I wonder what the O/D traffic is at Petersburg, which of course is served by a bunch of other trains too, but this train actually provides a very decent time for commuting to DC from there too.

Wasn't there a plan to add a stop in Suffolk at some point?

 

[afigg]

I wonder what the O/D traffic is at Petersburg, which of course is served by a bunch of other trains too, but this train actually provides a very decent time for commuting to DC from there too.
Wasn't there a plan to add a stop in Suffolk at some point?

The plans for the route have a Bowers Hill station near Chesapeake. I have not seen any definitive news on when a Bowers Hill stop might get built. Perhaps it will be part of the $80 million allocated for expanding NFK service to 3 trains a day? The $80 million is listed as going for CSX capacity improvements south of RVR to the branch to the NS branch to NFK, but could be other smaller projects included in it.

I checked the Amtrak schedule via the reservation system and the only change I see is the weekday 5 AM departure. The weekend #88 train is still departing NFK at 6:05 AM, the southbound regionals are still arriving at the same times. The padding stays in the schedule for the other trains. The Saturday #71 departs WAS at 7 PM, arrives NFK at 11:48 PM. Works for a day trip to WAS from NFK, but I would be interested to find out what the #71 ridership numbers to NFK are with its almost midnight arrival time.

Petersburg is not a busy station with only 22K passenger in FY12 (with 4 daily trains). If there are people using the NFK train for day trips to WAS, should show up in the FY2013 station numbers when they are released.

 

[calwatch]

One interesting thing is that the Norfolk train also stops at L'Enfant Plaza in addition to Union Station, which allows for better connections to the many government offices on the south side of DC. The early time was sold as great for meetings or trainings for military officials and contractors that need to travel from Hampton Roads to Washington and back.

 

[Anderson]

This was the most interesting portion of the article in some respects (aside from the hard ridership numbers):

Additional track and infrastructure upgrades are needed to bring second and third daily trains to Norfolk. Exactly what improvements need to be made and how much the state should contribute to the upgrades under negotiation with track owner CSX, Page said.The state's six-year transportation funding plan, boosted by revenue from tax increases approved this winter, includes $80 million for track improvements for the additional Norfolk trains.

So it's PTB-RVR that's holding the project up, not anything with NS. Interesting.

Also, on the ridership front: It seems that ridership is up marginally in Hampton Roads, though not by any great amount. What's more interesting is that this implies that ridership is surging RVR-WAS: If overall, ridership is 451,697 vs.397,680 last year, and ridership is stable into Hampton Roads, that puts about 55,000 new riders into the mix on the "upper corridor".

With that said, there's a wrinkle: I think the figures for the "other route" include all four trains NPN/RVR-WAS and don't account for the "lost" train that shifted to NFK-WAS. Based on past years' numbers, 246k off of the Peninsula in five months with those two trains? In my dreams. Last year, NPN/WBG ridership was 136k NPN and 58k WBG for the whole year. Moreover, I get 225,706 when I subtract May YTD from December YTD. December is, of course, when NPN-WAS "lost" a train on the RVR-WAS segment to NFK-WAS.

Honestly, I suspect that NPN probably only "lost" a third to half of those new Norfolk riders, though it may lose more with better times out of NFK (the 0450 departure is going to be a hard sell to non-military types, though technically speaking NFK now has three frequencies per day if you add in the Thruways). At the same time, added Thruway traffic out of a "proper" station (and not a street corner, as was the case before December) and the ability to "loop" trips by both routes (i.e. NFK-NPN-WAS-NFK) may help NPN's numbers.

Also, a note: I expect zero impact on WBG from this. The catchment areas don't overlap between WBG and NFK.

Sliding around to Suffolk: There are plans for a station, but my understanding is that at some point in this process, the NFK trains are going to shift tracks in Suffolk...and nobody wants to build a station that will only see use for a few years before having to be moved.

One other thing I do want to figure out is how the second and/or third trains would be timed out. Extending the last Regional out of DC might make some sense (you'd have a near-midnight arrival on all days), and it would also facilitate business day trips north of DC and/or decently late returns from multi-day trips (i.e. 1500-ish departures from NYP, in line with the Meteor). The jam is the NB times, since right now you have an 0600, an 0715, and an 0800 that are "available" from RVR. The 0715 is already taken...which leaves the 0600 (i.e. an 0400 departure from NFK) or the 0800 (an 0600 departure from NFK). I'm going to have to inquire on this front, since none of those scream "Schedule me!" while the 0400 departure screams "Run away very fast!"* to just about anyone looking at that sort of a schedule...awful times like that may work vaguely well in places where that's the only time available, but...even SLC suffers from that sort of timing. Here, with three or more better times available, it would be a bust and would only make sense if you were basically moving all equipment into Hampton Roads and there were savings to be had on facility consolidation.

*Either that or "Bite the bullet, move the departure to 10/11 PM, and add a sleeper"...the timing on something like that would actually be decent into NYP [and would probably generate some business at RVR as well], but you would need a running pair of some kind, and that isn't as easy to find at the moment.

 

[afigg]

So it's PTB-RVR that's holding the project up, not anything with NS. Interesting....

One other thing I do want to figure out is how the second and/or third trains would be timed out. Extending the last Regional out of DC might make some sense (you'd have a near-midnight arrival on all days), and it would also facilitate business day trips north of DC and/or decently late returns from multi-day trips (i.e. 1500-ish departures from NYP, in line with the Meteor). The jam is the NB times, since right now you have an 0600, an 0715, and an 0800 that are "available" from RVR. The 0715 is already taken...which leaves the 0600 (i.e. an 0400 departure from NFK) or the 0800 (an 0600 departure from NFK).

I think the major component of the $80 million for CSX capacity is a second bridge across the Appomattox river which has a 1 track bridge.

On the schedule for 3 daily trains to NFK, Amtrak and VA DRPT have years to figure it out. The NEC schedules for the Regionals may change or be shuffled around by then.

We need to look at the possible 3 train schedule in terms of the different markets or routes it should support. The current train schedule is designed to support trips from NFK to WAS, especially day trips. But by the time VA gets to 3 daily trains, the state will have spent $114 million (which appears to still being spent on track upgrades) plus an estimated $80 million for $194 million total. That is a lot of money to spend on round trip day trains to WAS and the NEC. Norfolk and VA Beach will want to use the trains to attract tourists and visitors to come to them.

The schedule for the 3 daily trains should in part support the following markets:

1. Day trips from NFK, RVR to WAS with an evening return trip with some schedule flexibility.

2. Trips from NFK to WAS and the NEC with better departure times for multi-day trips.

3. Trips from WAS and the NEC TO NFK and VA Beach for tourists, vacationers, conventions, military personnel. This would suggest a day time arrival in NFK, maybe 4 PM ish, so people can go to their hotel and get diner. Then a mid day to mid afternoon departure that gets to DC by dinner time and NYP at an acceptable hour.

4. Connecting day time trips from NFK to places south of VA - Raleigh to Charlotte, Charleston, Savannah. This might end up being done as it now by taking the bus to NPN, #94 to RVR and connecting to the Palmetto, Carolinian there. But trains to/from NFK providing useful connections at Petersburg to the Carolinian, Palmetto, or if that doesn't work, to the Silver Star would make for faster & shorter trips to NC, SAV, Orlando.

Juggling all of the above may be impossible with only 3 daily trains, 2 NPN trains and the needs of the NEC, but they can try. BTW, for fun try NFK to RGH on a weekday on the Amtrak reservation system. Couple of who would do that? options.

 

[battalion51]

Noooooope. As a method of transportation to get from one place to another I'd have a real hard time justifying a 12 hour trip on the train versus a 3 hour drive. At the same time though this isn't the only place where something like this shows up (although not to the same extreme). Examples that come to mind: DAL-AUS 6:40 on the train, 3 hour drive, JAX-MIA 9:07 on the train, 5 hour drive, EMY-RNO 6:54 on the train, 3:21 drive. It seems like a lot of times you have to get into long haul trips where things start to balance out in train time versus drive time. The train will also start to pick up an edge since you don't have to stop for gas/meals, and if traveling solo sleep.

 

[Anderson]

afigg,

At the moment, at least from what I can tell, the Norfolk train is hauling in a massive amount of business from Richmond north. Actually, all of the Regionals seem to be doing pretty well on that front, particularly with the commuter traffic. Looking at the Norfolk train, take the December-May numbers (73,126) and remove the Norfolk numbers (22,382). You get 50,704. Let's drop that to 50,000 even (for incidental Petersburg traffic). 50,000 from December 12-May 31 translates into somewhere around 100-120k for a full fiscal year (remember, January and February are buried in there, and they're two of the weakest months of the year). That ridership haul (up almost 100% since FY2011) is almost enough to support the train in its own right...and I get the feeling that the two RVR-originating Regionals are in the same general boat (given that there's only so much ridership you can attribute to the Peninsula).

So that creates a bit of a problem: Those three trains are doing bumper commuter business (some of which is thanks to the VRE step-up tickets, mind you), so altering their schedules becomes a dicey proposition at best. If I'm at the DRPT, in the present environment I do not touch those trains under any circumstances, at least between RVR and WAS (switching around trains that go to NPN vs. NFK is another matter).

I think the best case scenario is therefore that VA has to add a sixth train RVR-WAS in order to make realistic use of the three slots into NFK. Otherwise, there's no way they can hope any departures between 9ish AM (#94) and 5-ish PM (#66). Mind you, moving the 0800 departure to either NPN or NFK, having the 0715 departure go to the other one, and then shoving #94 wherever it fits best might be a good move...but that's really the only way I see doing anything...

...and that still leaves you with a train leaving RVR at 0600 which really can't go anywhere else in VA without the hours getting truly obscene (0415 for NPN, 0350 for NFK). You'd probably get more business running it down to Charlotte, NC overnight and giving it a big pad at RVR if you were truly desperate to extend it, but I also don't see that as being a terribly big winner. Best you might be able to do is relieve a bit of stress on the Crescent and Carolinian, really...but that's a better task for a third or fourth train on that route. So you need to get train six and to just let one train with the most obscene morning hours and whatever afternoon/evening hours match it terminate at RVR.

 

[Nathanael]

This was the most interesting portion of the article in some respects (aside from the hard ridership numbers):

Additional track and infrastructure upgrades are needed to bring second and third daily trains to Norfolk. Exactly what improvements need to be made and how much the state should contribute to the upgrades under negotiation with track owner CSX, Page said.

The state's six-year transportation funding plan, boosted by revenue from tax increases approved this winter, includes $80 million for track improvements for the additional Norfolk trains.

So it's PTB-RVR that's holding the project up, not anything with NS. Interesting.

Why does this not surprise me?
Among other things, CSX has always said it didn't want more passenger trains running through Acca Yard unless an Acca Yard Bypass is built.

Regarding the high demand from Richmond, the natural thing to do is to start more trains from Richmond Main St. That requires the Acca Yard Bypass, which for some reason Virginia has been unwilling to fund so far. The plan for the Norfolk trains is *also* to run them through Richmond Main St., which requires a major bridge rehabilitation south of Richmond Main St., which Virginia has also been unwilling to fund so far. (Both projects are also part of SEHSR, which Virginia has also been... well, you get the picture.)

If I were in charge of appropriations in Virginia, I'd purchase from south of Acca Yard to Newport News outright, along with the line south of Richmond Main St. to its reconnection with the mainline, and I'd buy land and build an Acca Yard Bypass which was owned by the state. Of course, if I were in charge of appropriations in Virginia, I would never have sold the *largely state-owned* RF&P to CSX... ah well.

 

[Nathanael]

One other thing I do want to figure out is how the second and/or third trains would be timed out. Extending the last Regional out of DC might make some sense (you'd have a near-midnight arrival on all days),

It is hard to work out what to do for scheduling.
One thing I'd do: I'd switch #66/67 to Norfolk from Newport News. Make use of the existing checked baggage service at Petersburg. Rumors are that #66/67 may get a sleeper back when the new Viewliners arrive. Of course, then you'd want to extend a different Regional to Newport News to compensate, which raises its own issues.

For the longer trips which 66/67 caters to, I think Norfolk is a more appropriate terminus than Newport News. I suppose one should look at how heavy the Williamsburg traffic is on 66/67 before considering this.

Anyway, this gives you a roughly 4:50PM departure from Norfolk and a 7:30AM departure from DC. The current train has a 5 or 6 AM departure from Norfolk and a roughly 4PM departure from DC, so this gives you the "other half", trips from DC to Norfolk.

The real schedule problem here is that, apart from 66/67 and the trains to NC, the entire service through Richmond is structured for people living in Virginia and visiting DC. It seems like a second "contra-peak" service to Richmond (other than 66/67) is necessary, so that there's one for Williamsburg / Newport News and one for Norfolk. Indeed, a "midday" service might also be desirable. But any of this would require extending additional trains from DC to Richmond. At that point, you start running up against CSX requirements for capacity increases along the RF&P.

 

[afigg]

Among other things, CSX has always said it didn't want more passenger trains running through Acca Yard unless an Acca Yard Bypass is built.
Regarding the high demand from Richmond, the natural thing to do is to start more trains from Richmond Main St. That requires the Acca Yard Bypass, which for some reason Virginia has been unwilling to fund so far. The plan for the Norfolk trains is *also* to run them through Richmond Main St., which requires a major bridge rehabilitation south of Richmond Main St., which Virginia has also been unwilling to fund so far. (Both projects are also part of SEHSR, which Virginia has also been... well, you get the picture.)

If I were in charge of appropriations in Virginia, I'd purchase from south of Acca Yard to Newport News outright, along with the line south of Richmond Main St. to its reconnection with the mainline, and I'd buy land and build an Acca Yard Bypass which was owned by the state. Of course, if I were in charge of appropriations in Virginia, I would never have sold the *largely state-owned* RF&P to CSX... ah well.

I don't think Virginia has been "unwilling" to fund an Acca Yard Bypass and to restore service to south of Richmond Main Street station. The issue has been the cost, both parts (RVR to RVM and RVM to the A-line) will be expensive. On the order of multiple 100s of millions. So VA DRPT went after the lower hanging fruit with service to Lynchburg, and now Norfolk.

The good news is that the Tier II FEIS (Final Environmental Impact Statement) for the entire Richmond Main Street to Raleigh segment has been completed and is expected to get an official Record of Decision from the FRA in the fall of 2013 (according to the SEHSR website). That will give VA DRPT the approvals and PE design if they decide to proceed with projects for the RVM to Petersburg segment.

Virginia has a $44 million HSIPR grant for the Tier II EIS and PE process for the Alexandria to RVM segment of the SEHSR. If it is allowed, it would make sense to move up the EIS and PE process for the Staples Mill to RVM segment. Or Virginia goes ahead and spend entirely state funds for an Acca Yard bypass and limited track improvements for faster RVR to RVM trip times for the Newport News trains as a first stage with restoring service south of RVM as a second phase.

The difference is that, thanks to the transportation bill that was passed earlier this year, VA DRPT now has a new direct revenue stream from a slice of the state sales tax for passenger rail that is projected to provide $44 million in FY2014 and grow to $57 million in FY2019. The VA DRPT will have between $66 million to $108 million a year total to spend on passenger rail projects over the next 6 fiscal years. They may have the funds on hand to build an Acca Yard Bypass later this decade.

As for buying the line from Acca Yard to Newport News, why would CSX sell a line they are using for a lot of coal trains for the lucrative coal export business?

 

[Anderson]

afigg beat me to the bit about the RVM-NPN line. It's not like that's a secondary main that CSX could sell off but keep some rights on (or sell outright, a la the BBRR) without disrupting operations.

With that said, it would probably make sense in the long run for VA to do a deal whereby they help restore the old second track in exchange for X passenger slots (which could be used for Amtrak and/or commuter operations) and/or higher running speeds on the line. I think that would make sense...and I'd point out that there does seem to be a (very) long-term push to get commuter rail service more or less all the way from Hampton Roads to DC...the only gap remaining in the proposals that I've heard of would be Toano-Richmond, and I think it's only a matter of time before that happens.*

On RVM, here's the thing: The project to improve RVR-PTB is NOT cheap. A lot of it is that the old S-line tracks are in just awful condition (IIRC, the estimate at the moment is that a re-routed train over the S-line would drop an hour vs. the A-line); it's probably a miracle that the line wasn't at least partly abandoned, but I think there might still be enough on-line business to justify it.

On contra-peak services, I do agree there. I'd point out that in the Hampton Roads plan, the proposal was for 9x daily service. Of course, that plan is a few years old and it assumed that 174/125 would be sent to NPN instead of NFK (I remember seeing a draft timetable in a publicly-posted planning document noting this with times TBD), but that's the plan. This would be in addition to, presumably, 4x daily SEHSR trains heading to CLT...and I /strongly/ suspect at least one additional train terminating at Richmond given that (as usual) I don't see trains in and out of NFK/NPN between about 0100 and 0500 selling in the presence of other alternatives. So assuming 9x daily (and going with the likely 3-NPN/6-NFK breakdown), that would suggest at least one additional later-in-the-day train NB in the mix; a possible breakdown of the trains would be (by RVR time NB):
0600 (RVR)
0700 (NFK-0500)
0800 (NFK-0600)
0830 (NPN-0700)
0900 (NFK-0700)
1000 (NFK-0800)
1300 (NPN-1130)
1700 (NFK-1500)
1900 (NPN-1730)
2000 (NFK-1800)

Basically, it's five Hampton Roads trains in the morning, two towards the middle of the day (one likely being timed to be an after-work train for Richmond), and two evening trains timed for after-work departures (note that even a departure from NFK at 1900, which is also plausible-if-stretching-it, would likely connect to the Meteor right now). I do, btw, figure 30 minutes after 0500 for "commute time" to the station on either side of the water; pushing the evening departures around would likely be necessary. Mind you, I'm assuming that the Carolinian stays where it is (NB at RVR around 1400) to sort-of fill that gap...and I have no idea where the other three SEHSR trains would show up, though I rather expect one of them to be overnight-ish.

*Toano-Newport News has been proposed by the HRTPO. There was actually a VRE connector bus running from Richmond-Fredericksburg for a few years, but I think it only ran once a day...not to mention the number of Amtrak commuters (who could spend more but get there far, far faster...I even ran into a few using the Meteor when it ran around 0500 instead of at 0435). The main issue is that such a system would have to contend with a lot of traffic going "both ways", so it's not like you'd be able to just run it directionally. Bidirectional peak service seems to be the most likely solution there, but that's not going to be cheap to get going.

 

[neroden]

So it's PTB-RVR that's holding the project up, not anything with NS. Interesting.

I think the major component of the $80 million for CSX capacity is a second bridge across the Appomattox river which has a 1 track bridge.

...oh, I see, so the cost is actually entirely within the City of Petersburg. Sigh.

 

[afigg]

So it's PTB-RVR that's holding the project up, not anything with NS. Interesting.

I think the major component of the $80 million for CSX capacity is a second bridge across the Appomattox river which has a 1 track bridge.

...oh, I see, so the cost is actually entirely within the City of Petersburg. Sigh.

Digging up old threads I see. Adding a 2nd track (and maybe a 3rd?) south of Richmond across the Appomattox River and any other improvements south of RVR to the CSX tracks will also benefit the Carolinian, the Silvers, and the Palmetto, not just the trains to Norfolk. So there will be one less bottleneck on their route while waiting on someday starting on the upgrades from RVR to RVM and south of RVM.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Train 84 and 174 will swap slots at RVR to allow for a later NFK start. Train 84 will now originate at NFK at 6:10am, terminating in NYP. Train 174 will originate at RVR and continue to BOS.

 

[Triley]

Train 84 and 174 will swap slots at RVR to allow for a later NFK start. Train 84 will now originate at NFK at 6:10am, terminating in NYP. Train 174 will originate at RVR and continue to BOS.

Thank god. That was a killer trip for us, with the minimal layover, and then followed by such a long trip.

I caught wind of this change a few weeks ago, and I'm still so happy that (at least during the week) we won't have to worry about that train anymore!

 

[John Bobinyec]

Train 84 and 174 will swap slots at RVR to allow for a later NFK start. Train 84 will now originate at NFK at 6:10am, terminating in NYP. Train 174 will originate at RVR and continue to BOS.

When?

jb

 

[afigg]

Train 84 and 174 will swap slots at RVR to allow for a later NFK start. Train 84 will now originate at NFK at 6:10am, terminating in NYP. Train 174 will originate at RVR and continue to BOS.

When?

Checking the Amtrak reservation system, it appears the schedule change will take effect on August 31. The NFK-WAS trip time is getting trimmed as well. #174 currently takes 4:44 NFK to WAS, the new #84 shows a 4:29 trip time (however, #84 does not stop at Woodbridge so that is part of the difference).

 

[jphjaxfl]

I thought they were supposed to add 2 additional trains in each direction from Norfolk funded by Virginia.

 

[west point]

Additional trains to Norfolk probably will need to wait on:

1. CSX slots from Petersburg - Richmond on the ACL line.

2. NS slots appear to already be available because of upgrades for 1st service.

3. Equipment problems. One or two more round trips will require another train set since the present Richmond layovers do not allow enough time to Round Trip present sets to Norfolk. Virginia would probably have to buy 10 - 12 new V-2s to start another train. Do not believe there is enough repairable Amfleet - 1s to make up another train set.
4. Virginia's desire to serve Richmond - Norfolk trains on the downgraded SAL Petersburg - RVM = RVR. Newport News now has quite an on and off at Richmond's Main street station

5.

 

[afigg]

Additional trains to Norfolk probably will need to wait on:

1. CSX slots from Petersburg - Richmond on the ACL line.

Virginia DRPT has $117 million budgeted to be spent (or allocated) spread over FY2016 through FY2019 for "Improvements Richmond to Petersburg for 2 Train Extension to Norfolk and and Lynchburg Second Train". They are lumping the 2 projects together, but the funds are stated as going to CSX. I have not seen a document nor viewgraph presentation that describes what the Richmond to Petersburg upgrades are, but I believe the biggest component is a second bridge across the Appomattox river which currently has a single track bridge bottleneck between RVR and the turnoff to Norfolk.

So the primary holdup on a 2nd and 3rd train to NFK is CSX capacity from RVR to south of PTB, The $117 million is Virginia's contribution, the Six Year Improvement Plan (SYIP) budget shows $15 million in private matching funds which is likely coming from CSX for a total project budget of $132 million. Not small potatoes. Why is the 2nd train to LYH lumped in with RVR to PTB upgrades? My guess is that there are some track upgrades that CSX wants on the WAS to ALX segment in return for allowing a 2nd VA Regional to LYH.

So a 2nd train to NFK appears to be mainly waiting on capacity upgrades on CSX, primarily a complete 2nd track (I think) from RVR to the NS branch off to NFK. The SYIP plan has funding allocated for operating subsidy for a Norfolk Train 2 starting in FY2020, so it is going to be 4 years before NFK gets a second train (Virginia is currently in FY2016 which started on July 1).

BTW, the VA DRPT FY16 SYIP budget has operating subsidies for a 2nd train to Lynchburg and service to Roanoke starting in FY2017.

 

[Anderson]

Something to remember is that 174 was originally supposed to go to NPN, not NFK (there was a sample schedule to this effect some years back). A third NPN train has been a priority for some time (and still nominally is), but when Norfolk Southern suddenly opened up to a deal for service into Norfolk the state dove at it. IIRC the NPN departure would have been (ultimately) sometime closer to 0600. The other reason that 174 was extended to NFK was an unintended consequence of pre-PRIIA 209 policy (e.g. 174 was a "Virginia train" while the other Richmond Regionals weren't...extending another train would have made an even messier soup of shared revenue, triggered renegotiations...the usual).

Edit: McAuliffe has made the Roanoke train a priority, and the second Lynchburg train is a knock-on consequence of that (the Roanoke extension frees up a storage spot at LYH). In Richmond/Norfolk, I think you could run the trains through to NFK; the problem is the crew (though with proper mix-and-match efforts and some swapping with NPN, I'm fairly sure you could work something out without "parking" more than one crew in Hampton Roads for an extra day at a time). The last arrival into Norfolk would be around 0000-ish on weekdays (1900 plus just under five hours) and the first departure around 0400 (0900-ish minus just under five hours), which is theoretically doable in terms of equipment. Trying to turn that crew? Not happening, but if you spin that OBS crew around and put them on the train out of Newport News (last in/last out) you might have a workable system (0000 arrival/0915 departure is probably feasible), though it would involve a sort of railyard parlor game as to who would go on which train and which trains would terminate at NYP vs. BOS.

Moving around, the problem with RVM is that while Roanoke was relatively easily done...there's a lot of work that needs doing on the S-line. This isn't Amtrak's fault (that credit goes to the SCL merger and this piece of line being almost utterly redundant with the A-line across town). On the other end...I've spent a while banging on about the need for a train timed for NPN/WBG-RVM commuters because that actually is a thing. Given the choice I'd add a stop at Norge/Toano as well...the loss of 5 minutes (give or take) should be made up for by generating a few dozen passholders from the upper side of James City County.

Edit 2: On that "stolen" train going to Norfolk, had that happened there is every chance I'd be volunteering in Richmond all through the General Assembly session. I could actually get up in the morning, walk to NPN, board my train, get off in RVM, walk to work...and then do the reverse in the evening. It would actually have been viable! Then again, so would commuting to class on the train when I was at college many days...