NYC to LA - $800/person roundtrip in roomette

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My friend wanted to try taking Amtrak from NYC to LAX and back since his wife doesn't like to fly. But it seems a hard sell when airlines cost $300, but Amtrak is charging $800. I booked several months in advance and that seems the lowest fare.

What else can I tell him?
 
You don't have to buy any food for three days. For two people on a four day train ride, you'll easily go through $200 in food in the dining car.
 
You don't have to buy any food for three days. For two people on a four day train ride, you'll easily go through $200 in food in the dining car.

Yes it is expensive, but try this: Go to Expedia.com, and put in a R/T flight FIRST CLASS on a plane-- you'll see its about the same!

Roomettes/Bedrooms on Amtrak are FIRST CLASS, so if you look at it from that point of view, its not bad.

Also, look at the "per hour" charge.....300 bucks (regular plane coach) for 10 hours (5 hour flight each way), or 800 bucks for 120 hours (60 hours each way on Amtrak).

Divide the math: Flying regular coach is about 30 an hour, Amtrak first class is about 6.66 an hour!
 
My friend wanted to try taking Amtrak from NYC to LAX and back since his wife doesn't like to fly. But it seems a hard sell when airlines cost $300, but Amtrak is charging $800. I booked several months in advance and that seems the lowest fare.What else can I tell him?
Keep in mind, you are paying for food (as ALC pointed out) and you are paying for a moving hotel room for 6 nights.

What prices are you getting for what trains?
 
Amtrak sleepers are little hotels on tracks... you have good food, good shower, decent beds. Its better than a hostile and you let the engineer do all the driving for you.
 
You don't have to buy any food for three days. For two people on a four day train ride, you'll easily go through $200 in food in the dining car.

Yes it is expensive, but try this: Go to Expedia.com, and put in a R/T flight FIRST CLASS on a plane-- you'll see its about the same!

Roomettes/Bedrooms on Amtrak are FIRST CLASS, so if you look at it from that point of view, its not bad.

Also, look at the "per hour" charge.....300 bucks (regular plane coach) for 10 hours (5 hour flight each way), or 800 bucks for 120 hours (60 hours each way on Amtrak).

Divide the math: Flying regular coach is about 30 an hour, Amtrak first class is about 6.66 an hour!
That's a very good way to look at the price differential. I am going to use that point of view in future debates with friends regarding air vs rail. :D
 
My friend wanted to try taking Amtrak from NYC to LAX and back since his wife doesn't like to fly. But it seems a hard sell when airlines cost $300, but Amtrak is charging $800. I booked several months in advance and that seems the lowest fare.What else can I tell him?


I prefer not to fly, but yes Amtrak roomettes/bedrooms are expensive. But sometimes you find it necessary to fly out to get to a starting point.

How about splitting the trip? Maybe fly Chicago to New York, and train from Chicago to LA? Or fly to Chicago, spend a night, and continue on the train to New York?

Or, often times what I do, train one way all the way, fly back---cuts down on cost, and time.

Planes and trains sometimes do and have to work together!
 
But here's the other way to look at it: on Amtrak you pay more and it takes longer. If the traveler's goal is mainly to get from New York to Los Angeles, rather than maximize the amount of time spent traveling, that doesn't make much sense.

Some of us like riding the train, but that's a minority taste.

I think it's simple supply and demand. There are many flights from LAX to JFK and EWR, but there's only one Southwest Chief. The prices are higher because Amtrak can get customers to pay them. If Amtrak had more sleepers, I'm sure the prices would be lower, because Amtrak wants to maximize occupancy. After all, most operating costs for a train are fixed.
 
Here's another way to look at it:
Airfare = $300Hotel for 6 nights = $500-$700

Food for 6 days = $300

Total = $1,100-$1,300
Amtrak = $800Hotel for 6 nights = -0- (It's included)

Food for 6 days = $-0- (It's included)

Total = $800
So taking the plane for those 6 days would cost well over $1,000 - while taking the train will cost $800! :)
The OP didn't say the train was their vacation... it is likely they are using the train as a mode of transportation.
 
The OP didn't say the train was their vacation... it is likely they are using the train as a mode of transportation.
Even if it's not a vacation, you still have to stay somewhere and eat someplace, and that's not free. And even if you come home a week or even a few days earlier, are you going to give up eating for a few days? :huh: (I think not!) And food (even at home) is not free - plus the fuel cost to go and get it. That has to be considered too.

Another consideration is parking fees. Depending on your departure location, the train station may be free. As an example, I could depart from TF Green (PVD airport), and the parking is $7 per day or $56 a week. I could leave from the Kingston train station - and the parking is free! So that may save another $50-$100 also!
 
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The OP didn't say the train was their vacation... it is likely they are using the train as a mode of transportation.
Even if it's not a vacation, you still have to stay somewhere and eat someplace, and that's not free. And even if you come home a week or even a few days earlier, are you going to give up eating for a few days? :huh: (I think not!) And food (even at home) is not free- plus the fuel cost to go and get it. That has to be considered too.

Another consideration is parking fees. Depending on your departure location, the train station may be free. As an example, I could depart from TF Green (PVD airport), and the parking is $7 per day of %56 a week. I could leave from the Kingston train station - and the parking is free! So that may save another $50-$100 also!
If they take the plane they'll need to pay for lodging in food in LA.

If they take the train they pay for the roomette AND then food and lodging in LA once they get there.

Food and lodging at your destination and food in lodging while you're going to your destination are totally different expenses and cannot be compared.
 
Yeah but in LAX Phillipes and the Metro Plaza are close by the station and IMHO worth it! I vote with the train guys on this one, flying coast to coast is not fun, only when absolutely necessary due to time constraints, even the traveler had to do this this during his last trip to PDX! :lol:
 
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Also, look at the "per hour" charge.....300 bucks (regular plane coach) for 10 hours (5 hour flight each way), or 800 bucks for 120 hours (60 hours each way on Amtrak).
Divide the math: Flying regular coach is about 30 an hour, Amtrak first class is about 6.66 an hour!
Price per hour is a very bad way to view transportation. Its a great way to compare entertainment, but for most folks transportation is about getting from A to B. Price per mile is a much better comparison, especially if you use a straight line distance for comparison of all options.
 
Also, look at the "per hour" charge.....300 bucks (regular plane coach) for 10 hours (5 hour flight each way), or 800 bucks for 120 hours (60 hours each way on Amtrak).
Divide the math: Flying regular coach is about 30 an hour, Amtrak first class is about 6.66 an hour!
Price per hour is a very bad way to view transportation. Its a great way to compare entertainment, but for most folks transportation is about getting from A to B. Price per mile is a much better comparison, especially if you use a straight line distance for comparison of all options.
By that logic, you may want to look at Greyhound - as that may have the lowest cost per mile! :rolleyes:
 
Here's another way to look at it:
Airfare = $300Hotel for 6 nights = $500-$700

Food for 6 days = $300

Total = $1,100-$1,300
Amtrak = $800Hotel for 6 nights = -0- (It's included)

Food for 6 days = $-0- (It's included)

Total = $800
So taking the plane for those 6 days would cost well over $1,000 - while taking the train will cost $800! :)
Look we are ALL missing the point. You either like train travel, and consider it part of the journey, or you don't, and you just wanna get there. I bet not a single one of us hasn't "had to get there" and gone by air because we "had to".

The dilemma is, "How do you impart the .........'Train travel is PART of your trip'........" thinking or mind-set to those who have NOT YET TRAVELED by train. THAT Is the 64K question.
 
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The OP didn't say the train was their vacation... it is likely they are using the train as a mode of transportation.
Even if it's not a vacation, you still have to stay somewhere and eat someplace, and that's not free. And even if you come home a week or even a few days earlier, are you going to give up eating for a few days? :huh: (I think not!) And food (even at home) is not free- plus the fuel cost to go and get it. That has to be considered too.

Another consideration is parking fees. Depending on your departure location, the train station may be free. As an example, I could depart from TF Green (PVD airport), and the parking is $7 per day of %56 a week. I could leave from the Kingston train station - and the parking is free! So that may save another $50-$100 also!
If they take the plane they'll need to pay for lodging in food in LA.

If they take the train they pay for the roomette AND then food and lodging in LA once they get there.

Food and lodging at your destination and food in lodging while you're going to your destination are totally different expenses and cannot be compared.
BINGO. If you don't get this, and argue this point, you will "not win friends and influence people" (newbie train travelers)........
 
The OP didn't say the train was their vacation... it is likely they are using the train as a mode of transportation.
Even if it's not a vacation, you still have to stay somewhere and eat someplace, and that's not free. And even if you come home a week or even a few days earlier, are you going to give up eating for a few days? :huh: (I think not!) And food (even at home) is not free- plus the fuel cost to go and get it. That has to be considered too.

Another consideration is parking fees. Depending on your departure location, the train station may be free. As an example, I could depart from TF Green (PVD airport), and the parking is $7 per day of %56 a week. I could leave from the Kingston train station - and the parking is free! So that may save another $50-$100 also!
If they take the plane they'll need to pay for lodging in food in LA.

If they take the train they pay for the roomette AND then food and lodging in LA once they get there.

Food and lodging at your destination and food in lodging while you're going to your destination are totally different expenses and cannot be compared.
So if I have to go across the country and spend 4 days in LA to see the family or for business (read not a vacation :rolleyes: ) and:

  1. fly there in 7 hours, stay 4 days in LA, then fly back in 7 hours
  2. take a train for 3 days, stay 4 days in LA, then take a train back for 3 days, or
  3. drive for 5 days, stay for 4 days in LA, then drive back for 5 days,

I should NOT include the cost of food or lodging for #2 or #3 in the cost consideration, since I have to eat and lodging to get there because I am going to spend the same 4 days in LA either way! :rolleyes: So I only need to consider the cost of the airfare, the cost of the rail fare or the cost of the fuel? :huh:

Hey I think I'll drive, because the gas costs less than the airfare! :rolleyes:
 
Let's look at your model then:

fly there in 7 hours, stay 4 days in LA, then fly back in 7 hourstake a train for 3 days, stay 4 days in LA, then take a train back for 3 days, or

drive for 5 days, stay for 4 days in LA, then drive back for 5 days
Plane ticket: 300, 4 days in LA, 800, ticket home 300, total= 1400

train ticket: 800, 4 days in LA, 800, train home, 800, total= 2400

driving I won't even touch because it is more expensive for the above.

The train is not the cost-effective option. It may not be the preferred option, and there are values in rail travel that I like. But you can't say that in this case using this model, the train will actually cost LESS.

On highly-trafficed routes in popular destinations, such as LaGuardia to LAX... the plane will almost always be more cost effective when you break it down to the bottom lines.
 
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Also, who says the OP has to pay for lodging at all when they get to their destination? Just a thought.
Well I suppose if you don't want to sleep in LAX you'll have to find a place. And even if it were the case-- if you're concerned about money the plane will still be cheaper.
 
Also, who says the OP has to pay for lodging at all when they get to their destination? Just a thought.
Well I suppose if you don't want to sleep in LAX you'll have to find a place. And even if it were the case-- if you're concerned about money the plane will still be cheaper.
If you're staying with family or friends, you don't have to pay for lodging.

Here's how I break down the comparisons for a round-trip.

If you're only comparing taking the train and driving, and not considering flying, then you should look at:

getting to/from stations (and parking if relevant) + train fare (including accommodations) + food + lodging, and days of transit

automobile costs (gas + depreciation/maintenance) + food + lodging, and days of transit

Running that calculation, the train will almost always be the cheaper of the two. For me, two people traveling, the comparison would look like this

SEPTA tickets $18 + Amtrak roomettes $1600 + food $0 + lodging $0 + LA pubtrans/taxi $32?, 6 days transit = $1650, 6 days

Intangible advantages to the train: not driving, socializing opportunities.

5422mi*.55/mi $2980 + food 60/day*10days $600 + 80/night*8nights $640, 10 days transit = $3020, 10 days

Intangible advantages to driving: being able to take detours, visit museums, eat local cuisine.

So, it comes down to how you rate (saving $1400 and 4 days, not having to drive, socializing) against (flexibility in itinerary, more local experiences).

If you're comparing taking the train and flying, then it's a totally different equation. It still has multiple numbers to look at, though:

getting to/from stations (and parking if relevant) + train fare (including accommodations) + food + lodging, and days of transit

getting to/from airports (and parking if relevant) + airfare, days of transit

For me, two people traveling would look like this

SEPTA tickets $18 + Amtrak roomettes $1600 + food $0 + lodging $0 + LA pubtrans/taxi $32?, 3 days transit = $1650, 3 days

Intangible advantages to the train: not driving, socializing opportunities, seeing the country, relaxing.

SEPTA tickets $28 + airfare*2 $800 + LA pubtrans/taxi $32?, 1 day transit = $860

Intangible advantages to flying: none, in my opinion, and disadvantages of comfort and jet lag.

So, it comes down to how you rate (socializing opportunities, seeing the country) against (saving $800 and 4 days, with two days of discomfort and jet lag).

A bigger question: do you have a fixed amount of time for a vacation you're trying to fill (14 days total) for transit and destination time, in which case you get either 12 days in LA or 8 days in LA? Or do you have a specific amount of time you want to be in LA (say, 7 days), in which case you're comparing 9 days away from home with 13 days away from home? Those are two very different situations. IF THE FORMER--if it's a 14 day vacation either way--THEN you also have to consider food and lodging for those additional 4 days of your vacation that are in LA when you fly. Add to the cost of flying food 60/day*4days $240 + lodging 100/night*4nights $400 = $640. That cancels out a lot of the cost savings!!! But that doesn't apply if your time at the destination is fixed.

Additionally, if you have to drive to and park at the airport but don't have to do that for the train, of course, you have additional costs. My parents, for instance, would have to do that, so they would be paying something like $10/day for their entire trip to leave their car at the airport, whereas they could park at Kemper St Station for free. That might cut $140 off the savings for flying, for a two week trip.

So, for instance, if my parents were to take a 14 day vacation, the train and flying would cost pretty much the same. The $800 cost savings we worked out at first get reduced by $640 and $140. Then it's only a question of intangibles, not cost. 6 days on the train, or 4 extra days in LA but 2 days of airport/airplane discomfort plus jet lag?

There's no easy answer that fits everyone!
 
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