NYP interlocking

[City of Miami]

I was in NYC this morning and after I walked the length of the High Line Park I was looking for that interlocking between the tunnels and NYP. All I could find was what looked like a NJT yard at 33rd and 10th Ave but there was no activity.

Where is the place you can stand and look down on that interlocking and the trains passing in out of Penn Station/Jersey?

By the way, with Windows 8 I am not able to post to the forum with the 'Metro' mode; I can only do this in the 'desktop mode', which is an inconveneience.

 

[Ryan]

Looking at Google Maps, it looks like 9th between 31st and 33rd:

http://goo.gl/maps/ZUtV0

 

[AlanB]

I've never walked around that particular block area, so I'm not sure if there is actually any place where one can look over a wall and down to the tracks. But that said, it would be 31st and 33rd and between 9th & 10th Avenues.

Based upon what you describe, you were looking in essentially the correct area, as there is a small holding yard for a few NJT trains on the southern or 31st Street side of that open area where the trains all see the light of day for a few seconds, prior to either entering the tunnels or NYP depending on travel direction. You can see the roofs of 2 NJT trains in that Google Maps shot that Ryan linked to at the bottom of the picture. The tracks in the middle lead to the various tunnels (North River and Empire Connection) and the tracks at the very top of the picture lead to the LIRR West End yard between 10th & 12th Aves.

 

[railiner]

Not sure what you are looking to see, but the division train dispatcher's office is in that modern looking building at the southwest corner of ninth avenue and thirtyfirst street. And you can see 'A' Tower from the west end of the center platforms in Penn Station....

 

[jis]

The modern looking building actually holds both PSCC (Penn Station Control Center) and the NY CETC (Several CETC desks plus Sections A, B and C AFAIR) which controls Holmes (exclusive) to Bergen (exclusive) [Need to look up the detals, but AFAIR that is roughly area], and in addition, the Empire Connection and the Hell Gate Line, and will now also control Poughkeepsie to Hoffmans on the Empire Corridor, the Niagara Falls Bridge and the Post Road in Renssalaer. The famous Harold area and Sunnyside is controlled out of PSCC and Section A, and not CETC.

A Tower has no dispatching or control function anymore. That is all done out of PSCC.

 

[kbmiflyer]

My son and I tried to look around the area last year while waiting to board the LSL. We were looking for the same thing (watching NEC and NJT going in and out of NYP). Everywhere we went at street level we ran into a wall along the sidewalks (31st and 33rd and 9th avenue) and couldn't see anything.

 

[jis]

If you want to see the NEC traffic that passes by A interlocking a much better place to see it is a Secaucus Jct. What you won't see there are the LIRR moves to West Side Yard and the Empire Connection trains. But everything else that apsses through the west throat of Penn Station passes by Secaucus jct. And trust me, it is an impressive sight during rush hours. 2.5 min headway is impressive no matter where you see it. The quick change of signal aspects at the home signals at Secaucus due to the very short high density blocks used on the High Line never ceases to catch my attention whenever I am there. The choreography between some trains stopping at Secaucus while other trains overtake them on the outer track is also fun to watch.

 

[John Bobinyec]

The quick change of signal aspects at the home signals at Secaucus due to the very short high density blocks used on the High Line never ceases to catch my attention whenever I am there.

The interlocking signals that you can see at Secaucus have basically two indications:

1. Stop

2. Follow your cab signal

They don't indicate block occupancy in the traditional way.

jb

 

[jis]

They cycle through stop, approach, approach medium, cab speed At least that is what I see when I am standing at the platform.

 

[railiner]

The modern looking building actually holds both PSCC (Penn Station Control Center) and the NY CETC which controls Holmes (exclusive) to Secaucus (inclusive) [Need to look up the detals, but AFAIR that is roughly area], and in addition, the Empire Connection and the Hell Gate Line, and will now also control Poughkeepsie to Hoffmans on the Empire Corridor. The famous Harold area is controlled out of PSCC and not CETC as is Sunnyside.
A Tower has no dispatching or control function anymore.That is all done out of PSCC.

'A' Tower closed? How sad!

But that's progress.....

You can tell I am way out of touch....the last time I was there, 'A' Tower and the others were still thriving, and the New York Division train dispatcher's had just moved from the old '40 Office' in Penn Station to that new facility which IIRC is named for Graham Claytor and Daniel Scannell....

 

[TimePeace]

I was in NYC this morning and after I walked the length of the High Line Park I was looking for that interlocking between the tunnels and NYP. All I could find was what looked like a NJT yard at 33rd and 10th Ave but there was no activity.
Where is the place you can stand and look down on that interlocking and the trains passing in out of Penn Station/Jersey?

By the way, with Windows 8 I am not able to post to the forum with the 'Metro' mode; I can only do this in the 'desktop mode', which is an inconveneience.

I was in New York and walked the High Line on Sunday! Wasn't thinking about trains then, although over the weekend between commuter rail and subways, I was on 10 trains!

 

[AlanB]

The modern looking building actually holds both PSCC (Penn Station Control Center) and the NY CETC which controls Holmes (exclusive) to Secaucus (inclusive) [Need to look up the detals, but AFAIR that is roughly area], and in addition, the Empire Connection and the Hell Gate Line, and will now also control Poughkeepsie to Hoffmans on the Empire Corridor. The famous Harold area is controlled out of PSCC and not CETC as is Sunnyside.

I'll admit that I haven't listened in on my scanner now for maybe 2 or 3 months, or rather I haven't heard anything from K Tower on the occasions that it has been on, but then I don't spend hours listening to the scanner when I'm home. But last I knew K Tower still controlled the actual Sunnyside yard tracks. PSCC only controlled the approach tracks to/from the yard.

Has there been some recent change that you've heard of that retired K Tower?

 

[jis]

What happens within Sunnyside is a mystery to me. There are supposedly two "Towers" 'Q' and 'R' which are locally controlled but currently under Section A authority. They will move to PSCC authority in the post ESA world. These two control the two ends of the yard, 'Q' the west end and 'R' the east end. It is possible that both are actually located in K Tower. But I don't really know for sure.

Looking at the post ESA plans, what I find really fascinating is that Wood interlocking (Woodside) comes under the Section A dispatcher's control. Section A controls CP Gate (inclusive) to CP216 (ex-Shell, exclusive) on the Hell Gate Line.

 

[AlanB]

Looking at the post ESA plans, what I find really fascinating is that Wood interlocking (Woodside) comes under the Section A dispatcher's control. Section A controls Harold to CP216 (ex-Shell) on the Hell Gate Line.

That is really interesting! I'm surprised that the LIRR would have turned over control over the newly built WOOD, which is on their tracks, to Amtrak.

I can only assume that it was felt to be the best idea so as to increase flexibility at Harold, without Amtrak & LIRR dispatchers having to constantly talk and coordinate moves. It also makes me suspect that the LIRR will turn over control of the new interlocking being built just east of the mouth of the 63rd Street tunnel for the East Side Access project to Amtrak. That way Amtrak dispatchers could put trains onto the best approach track to Harold for mixing into the overall traffic pattern.

And thanks for the update on the yard, and it was Q tower that I was thinking of. That's the one I hear most often, not sure why I said K. Must have been a momentary lapse of reason.

 

[jis]

I can only assume that it was felt to be the best idea so as to increase flexibility at Harold, without Amtrak & LIRR dispatchers having to constantly talk and coordinate moves. It also makes me suspect that the LIRR will turn over control of the new interlocking being built just east of the mouth of the 63rd Street tunnel for the East Side Access project to Amtrak. That way Amtrak dispatchers could put trains onto the best approach track to Harold for mixing into the overall traffic pattern.

Yes. Plaza Interlocking (just east of the mouth of the 63rd Street tunnel, adjacent to - well ahem -- actually sort of partly under, the new LIRR Yard) is to be controlled out of PSCC. Actually there is no way to get into or out of the new ESA GCT station without passing through PSCC control. Coming in from LIRR you pass through Harold and Plaza both controlled from PSCC. Coming out from there to the new Sunnyside LIRR (Belvedere) Yard you pass through Plaza, Loop, R2 and Belvedere which are, in that order, Plaza and Loop are controlled directly by PSCC, R2 is controlled by R using PSCC authority and Belvedere is under Section A authority.
Plaza sends indications to GCT which I suspect is controlled by LIRR Jamaica Control Center. So GCT ESA level is operationally more like an extension of Penn Station than a completely new station! Wierd! But turns out that is what makes the most sense operationally.

But also remember that PSCC is run jointly by Amtrak and LIRR, with half the shifts led by LIRR and the other half by Amtrak. I don't know exactly how they divvy up the work. But in all cases there is a liaison person from the other present, and of course there is always a liaison person from NJT present too at the PSCC dispatcher desk. But Section A is intersting because it is truly under full Amtrak control.