Odd consist for the Cardinal.

[William W.]

The Cardinal definitely has a lot of potential, but it also has a lot of roadblocks, namely:

-Equipment Shortages

-Single tracking between CHI, and IND.

-Poor track condition between those two points, and on the BBBR.

The biggest obstacle, IMO, is the equipment shortage. That is also the most fixable, thanks to the Viewliner II order. The BBBR is being fixed, so that should be less problematic in the next few years. Longer term, in order to have adequate daily service, and OTP, the section between CHI and IND would have to be improved, and double tracked. Unfortunately, this won't happen unless Indiana steps up.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Let's not forget the tracks between IND and CIN. Those are certainly not a speedway.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Basic upgrades, such as three new or extended bypasses,

could cost $260 million by 2019 and cut Indianapolis-Chicago

trip times by half an hour each way.

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Amtrak_CostBenefitAnalysis_2013.pdf

This study was done for the Hoosier State, but of course

the half hour saved would also apply to the Cardinal.

If we had another Stimulus or even another annual appropriation

for RR capital investment like 2010, a lousy $260 million grant

would not make page 1 of the DOT press release. But with this

Congress, we get nothing. Nothing.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

btw. This "study" calculates an estimated value from reduced highway congestion as passengers are diverted from driving to the train. It does not mention any savings from trains being safer than cars. Well, the Indiana Dept of Highways commissioned the study so why am I not surprised?

The figures they provide don't make it easy for me to cook up a number myself, but I'm gonna try. It says as many as 245,000 riders could be diverted from highways to trains. I take the trip length Indianapolis-Chicago, 183 miles, to get total miles not driven, of 44,835,000. Then "the U.S. average automobile fatality rate of 1.5 per 100 million vehicle-miles for 2000" looks like we might save nearly .75 deaths per year, that is, 3/4ths of a death per year.

Not sure what cash value per death to apply on a highway in Northeast Indiana. This ain't the World Trade Center where an emotional Congress made a special allotment and payments averaged $2 million per person. Families of the shooting victims at Virginia Tech, OTOH, got $180,000.

Let's say $180,000 and use the same 10-year payout the study gives for the capital investment, thats $1,800,000, and for almost ¾ of a death saved per year, about $1,350,000 total.

Well, giving a value to lives saved from highway traffic deaths on the Hoosier State route doesn't close the gap, but it is another $1 million plus in favor of the trains. And there's another sum hiding in there somewhere, because the Indiana study totally and completely ignored any value to anybody from improvements to the Cardinal, which might include, you know, passengers diverted from driving, thus saving their lives.

Perhaps I digress. My main point, the Cardinal could be a much healthier train, and Hoosier State with it, with even minimal investment, and that's worth doing.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Feel free to avoid Indiana, something I do at all costs. My father in law is from there for gods sake.

 

[William W.]

Indiana's state government seems less hostile to passenger rail than Ohio, and other states. I think that if a good case is made, they could come around to some sort of funding agreement.

 

[JayMadison]

Feel free to avoid Indiana, something I do at all costs. My father in law is from there for gods sake.

I'm going through it in a couple weeks. I know zero about the state, so it should be interesting.

 

[Ryan]

Indiana's state government seems less hostile to passenger rail than Ohio, and other states. I think that if a good case is made, they could come around to some sort of funding agreement.

One of those two states passed a law saying essentially "you can have any mass transit you want, as long as it isn't light rail".
I'd say that's pretty hostile to passenger rail, and it ain't Ohio.

 

[afigg]

I am going to boldly predict that revenue on the Cardinal will be up by $150K-$200K over last year for the month of July 2014, based purely on the added sleeper capacity. Extrapolated over the year, loss per passenger-mile could be reduced to as low as 28.2 cents and the loss per seat-mile as low as 16.1 cents (except of course the extra sleeper capacity wasn't present all year). This puts it within striking distance of the financial numbers of the daily LD trains.

Make it daily, who knows what could happen; some back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest that it could have the second-best operating loss among the LD trains. Of course, who knows what capital costs would be needed to do that.

When did the second sleeper first get added this summer to the Cardinal? The June 2014 monthly report shows only a small increase in sleeper sales for the Cardinal. I don't know if the second sleeper on the Cardinal will result in that big of an increase in sleeper revenue because Amtrak did not advertise the second sleeper car or announce that they were adding it, so the Cardinal may not have sold many roomettes in the second sleeper.

As for the CHI-IND part of the Cardinal route, while it does not look that IN will put any capital funding toward track improvements, the Chicago & IL portion should eventually see improvements from the CREATE initiative. The Grand Crossing connector project, which is supposed to provide a faster route for Cardinal, is in the middle of the alternative route selection and EIS stages. But if the FEIS is completed by end of 2014 or early 2015 with a Record of Decision in 2015, the project could get stalled for years while trying to line up funding with little federal funding available for passenger rail projects.

 

[neroden]

When did the second sleeper first get added this summer to the Cardinal? The June 2014 monthly report shows only a small increase in sleeper sales for the Cardinal.

Judging by this thread, it happened on June 29th, certainly not before June 22nd. So it really wouldn't have shown up in the June report.

As for the CHI-IND part of the Cardinal route, while it does not look that IN will put any capital funding toward track improvements, the Chicago & IL portion should eventually see improvements from the CREATE initiative. The Grand Crossing connector project, which is supposed to provide a faster route for Cardinal,

That project won't help the Cardinal by itself. That project is focused on providing a faster route for the Illini/Saluki/CONO, and as a side effect, the Michigan Services, LSL, and Capitol Limited. For it to help the Cardinal, additional agreements with CN are necessary. :-(

is in the middle of the alternative route selection and EIS stages. But if the FEIS is completed by end of 2014 or early 2015 with a Record of Decision in 2015, the project could get stalled for years while trying to line up funding with little federal funding available for passenger rail projects.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think the Cardinal should have two sleepers per consist as soon as the Viewliner II's become available. With excellent scenery and a rural, laid-back atmosphere, the Cardinal could gain a niche market unlike the "bigger" LSL and CL.

 

[pennyk]

FYI - some posts that have crossed the line into politics that have nothing to do with the topic "Cardinal" likely will be hidden or deleted.

 

[William W.]

Thank you, Penny.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Killjoy :lol:

 

[oldtimer]

Killjoy :lol:

Wasn't that from the famous WWII quote "Killjoy was here"

:giggle: :help: :wacko:

 

[andersone]

close, but no cigar

"Kilroy was here" was the slang used in WWII. Graffittie was normally a bald head, eyes and nose over a ledge. Wikipedia says it is on the WWII memorial in DC.

Killjoy is my ex wife

 

[oldtimer]

close, but no cigar.

"Kilroy was here" was the slang used in WWII. Graffittie was normally a bald head, eyes and nose over a ledge. Wikipedia says it is on the WWII memorial in DC.

Killjoy is my ex wife

Apparently you did not catch my sarcasm.

 

[crescent2]

The Cardinal still had two sleepers on July 27.