On time buffer for last stop?

[AC4400]

I noticed that many Amtrak routes have incredibly loose schedule between the second to last stop and their final destination.

For example, on Cascades routes, TUK-SEA (NBs) normally takes 14 minutes, but the schedule says 48 minutes. The same for VAN-PDX (SBs) which normally takes 15 minutes, but scheduled for 50 minutes. Also longer the route, longer the last stop buffer. Like EDM-SEA (SBs), Cascades schedules for 38-minute buffer, but Empire Builder schedules 1 hour 15 minutes buffer, but normal travel time (NBs schedule) is only 27 minutes.

I guess Amtrak would use this to increase the on time performance, though the train is running 30 minutes late until the second to last stop. Am I right?

 

[Fan Railer]

I noticed that many Amtrak routes have incredibly loose schedule between the second to last stop and their final destination.

For example, on Cascades routes, TUK-SEA (NBs) normally takes 14 minutes, but the schedule says 48 minutes. The same for VAN-PDX (SBs) which normally takes 15 minutes, but scheduled for 50 minutes. Also longer the route, longer the last stop buffer. Like EDM-SEA (SBs), Cascades schedules for 38-minute buffer, but Empire Builder schedules 1 hour 15 minutes buffer, but normal travel time (NBs schedule) is only 27 minutes.

I guess Amtrak would use this to increase the on time performance, though the train is running 30 minutes late until the second to last stop. Am I right?

Yes. Schedule padding is used by pretty much every commuter / regional rail agency.

 

[BCL]

Many are for departing passengers only. For instance, I take the 525 occasionally, and the last stop is OAC before they reverse and head back to Sacramento. The OKJ (second to last) stop is marked on the schedule with a D (for departing passengers only). I've noticed it typically arrives well before the scheduled time, and leaves as soon as possible without regard to the schedule.

 

[AC4400]

I noticed that many Amtrak routes have incredibly loose schedule between the second to last stop and their final destination.

For example, on Cascades routes, TUK-SEA (NBs) normally takes 14 minutes, but the schedule says 48 minutes. The same for VAN-PDX (SBs) which normally takes 15 minutes, but scheduled for 50 minutes. Also longer the route, longer the last stop buffer. Like EDM-SEA (SBs), Cascades schedules for 38-minute buffer, but Empire Builder schedules 1 hour 15 minutes buffer, but normal travel time (NBs schedule) is only 27 minutes.

I guess Amtrak would use this to increase the on time performance, though the train is running 30 minutes late until the second to last stop. Am I right?

Yes. Schedule padding is used by pretty much every commuter / regional rail agency.

Thanks! Just did a little search on "schedule padding" and found that airlines also do the same thing to increase performance.

 

[AC4400]

Many are for departing passengers only. For instance, I take the 525 occasionally, and the last stop is OAC before they reverse and head back to Sacramento. The OKJ (second to last) stop is marked on the schedule with a D (for departing passengers only). I've noticed it typically arrives well before the scheduled time, and leaves as soon as possible without regard to the schedule.

For Cascades, this happens even for trains without other same day trips, such as 513 (runs 506 the next day), 508 (runs 507 the next day).

 

[Ryan]

There are some stations along the route that have padding as well. Look at the timetable in both directions one stop away from a major city.

For example, 19 is set for 1h15 from Greenville to Atlanta, but 20 is only scheduled to do it in 55m (going from memory).

 

[AC4400]

There are some stations along the route that have padding as well. Look at the timetable in both directions one stop away from a major city.

For example, 19 is set for 1h15 from Greenville to Atlanta, but 20 is only scheduled to do it in 55m (going from memory).

Yes! I noticed that. 507 SEA-PDX-EUG has padding in both VAN-PDX (15min actual, 50min schedule) and ALY-EUG (40min actual, 59min schedule).

 

[zephyr17]

Officially known as "recovery time"

 

[AC4400]

Officially known as "recovery time"

Thanks.

Saw this on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-time_performance#Improving_schedule_adherence

 

[lstone19]

Thanks! Just did a little search on "schedule padding" and found that airlines also do the same thing to increase performance.

There is no equivalent for airlines. Airline flights are all scheduled as single segments so there is no "next to last stop" to "last stop" segment to pad. However, as someone who does airline scheduling for a living, the idea of "schedule padding" is a chicken and egg issue. Are you adding time to improve performance or are you setting the schedule to be realistic to the conditions actually encountered. Airline schedules are very different because even leaving every thing else out, wind is highly variable and a major factor in the actual flight time for a flight. While the seasonal variability is quite predictable (stronger winds out of the west in winter than in summer), the daily variation is not and can dwarf the seasonal variability (e.g. a flight might be scheduled 15 minutes longer in winter than in summer but on any given day, the daily wind variation could easily make it 30 minutes over or under schedule).

For most airlines, schedules are set to achieve a target level of on-time arrival performance based on the history encountered the last few years. A reliable schedule is far more important than the fastest schedule if it can't be reliably achieved. On the other hand, early arrivals bring their own set of problems such as no gate available or for slot controlled airports (most international airports), "abuse" of the slot.

 

[fairviewroad]

On the other hand, early arrivals bring their own set of problems such as no gate available or for slot controlled airports (most international airports), "abuse" of the slot.

Not to mention the fact that a consistently early arrival equates to more time on the ground for the aircraft which equates to lost revenue for the airline. Airlines have to balance between operational needs and the need to earn as much revenue as possible. If you allowed your jets 5 hours to fly from New York to Chicago, you'd have a near 100% OTP for those flights....but you'd be wasting valuable aircraft/gate space by having the jet sit at ORD or LGA for the next flight to begin.

This is less of an issue with Amtrak (esp for LD trains) since most LD trains sit overnight at their end station anyhow, so arriving "early" doesn't make a difference in terms of potential revenue. That's why corridor trains are less likely to have significant padding (not to mention the competitive need to make the trip seem as fast as possible in the NEC...if you added 30 minutes to every Acela run you'd get a much better OTP but you'd lose customers who want to get there as fast as possible).

 

[the_traveler]

On time records for trains are only recorded for the departure station and the arrival station. (Such as for the SWC, only at CHI and LAX.) So it doesn't matter if the train is 3 hours late at KCY, 2 1/2 hours late at FLG and 1/2 hour late at FUL. As long as it arrives at LAX on time, the run was on time.

That's why you see such long times between the second to last station and the last station.

 

[BCL]

This is less of an issue with Amtrak (esp for LD trains) since most LD trains sit overnight at their end station anyhow, so arriving "early" doesn't make a difference in terms of potential revenue. That's why corridor trains are less likely to have significant padding (not to mention the competitive need to make the trip seem as fast as possible in the NEC...if you added 30 minutes to every Acela run you'd get a much better OTP but you'd lose customers who want to get there as fast as possible).

Aren't there maintenance yards near the ends of many LD train routes? I pass by the Oakland yard often, and sometimes when driving I can see the 6 heading out to Emeryville from the yard, although sometimes it's just stopped on the tracks. I see there's a yard in Chicago, and it looks like yards near the ends of most LD routes. Looks like the CZ and CS are covered, but probably not the Auto Train.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1246041980246

Amtrak owns three heavy maintenance facilities in Wilmington and Bear, DE, and Beech Grove, IN, as well as other maintenance facilities in Washington, DC; New York City, Rensselaer and Niagara Falls, NY; Boston; Hialeah, FL; Chicago; New Orleans; Los Angeles; Oakland; and Seattle.

 

[neroden]

Yes, there are maintenance facilities at Miami (Hialeah), DC (Ivy City IIRC), NY (Sunnyside), Boston (forget what it's called), Chicago, Seattle, Oakland, Los Angeles, and New Orleans, which is the ends of nearly all the long-distance trains. The Portland section of the Empire Builder has to stay in the station overnight, but the station has its own little yard. The Auto Train has its own yards, if not its own maintenance facilities.

 

[jis]

Boston - Southampton St.

Chicago - 14th St

Seattle - King St.

Auto Train - Sanford FL

Sanford also used to support the Sunset Limited when it ran to Orlando. Sanford does some significant overhaul and car reconfiguration work too. However, it does not have a wheel shop. It sends all wheel work to Hialeah.

Other maintenance facilities are at Albany and New Haven.

 

[BCL]

I've heard that the location of the Oakland yard is why #6 originates in Emeryville when Oakland-Jack London would seem to be an otherwise good place to start. It's a fairly new and modern station with baggage handling, but then they'd have to back up the train from where it's prepared for duty. I think #6 used to originate at the old 16th Street Station in Oakland, which is north of the yard.