A revised sleeping car upgrade policy was issued, effective 10/1/12. The basic difference appears to be that the price onboard will be whatever the current bucket price is showing in the Arrow system (including any applicable discount). That and it specifically states that the Pax. must decide immediately, no holds for decisions later.
Onboard sleeper upgrades
- Thread starter OBS
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
This is exactly the opposite of what airlines do regarding upgrade. But since Amtrak has no competition (or so they think) for that sort of service..... Oh well....
Last edited by a moderator:
amamba
Engineer
I wonder if they will be actively pushing the prices down right before boarding, though?
I have noticed this on some acelas recently - the price will be high and then drop 48-24 hours before departure. So I just cancel and rebook at the lower price.
I have noticed this on some acelas recently - the price will be high and then drop 48-24 hours before departure. So I just cancel and rebook at the lower price.
Sleepers have been selling at high rates for a while. When a room or two remains unsold, some people (even encouraged occasionally on here) would check availability right before boarding, then wait until on board to pay a lower fare.
This eliminates any incentive to wait until boarding/disincentive to buy at the station (if ticket agent available).
This eliminates any incentive to wait until boarding/disincentive to buy at the station (if ticket agent available).
Cho Cho Charlie
Engineer
IMHO, that's the purpose.
Cho Cho Charlie
Engineer
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2003
- Messages
- 8,526
At checkin or at the gate.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2003
- Messages
- 8,526
The new lie-flat international seats in Business and First are pretty close to the comfort of a roomette, have some degree of privacy, and offer far more bells and whistles.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
That is exactly why I try to get upgrade on international flights. lie-flat seats are really wonderful and the food is excellent too. Checkin and gate upgrades are usually offered if any seat up front is going unoccupied.
JoeBas
Conductor
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2011
- Messages
- 1,214
Yes, but these upgrades are often based on status and points, not actual cash-in-hand.
The comparable thing would be an AGR Select Plus member holding a coach ticket getting a "free" roomette upgrade if there were an empty roomette.
However, due to the nature of Amtrak's business, this is a policy that would make no sense. Rooms would be scarfed early in a run, and a Select Plus member with much higher point totals who boards later in a run would find all the freebies already scrounged.
Not to mention that this would sorely cut into people booking rooms in the first place.
I'm sorry to see this going away, as I've never had a chance to benefit from it... but given current capacity constraints on the rooms it probably makes sense.
The comparable thing would be an AGR Select Plus member holding a coach ticket getting a "free" roomette upgrade if there were an empty roomette.
However, due to the nature of Amtrak's business, this is a policy that would make no sense. Rooms would be scarfed early in a run, and a Select Plus member with much higher point totals who boards later in a run would find all the freebies already scrounged.
Not to mention that this would sorely cut into people booking rooms in the first place.
I'm sorry to see this going away, as I've never had a chance to benefit from it... but given current capacity constraints on the rooms it probably makes sense.
trainman74
Conductor
United, for one, has the capability of selling their extra-legroom "Economy Plus" coach seats on board. They can't do on-board upgrades to first/business class, though.
fairviewroad
Engineer
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 3,396
Given the frequent reports seen here of conductors refusing to process on-board upgrades, I'm not sure how much potential revenue Amtrak
is losing with this policy change.
But, assuming conductors do their job, there is the possibility of this being a net revenue gain, as some people who do manage to buy an on-board upgrade will do so even
with the higher price. I'd be interested in seeing the numbers after this new policy has been in place for a year or so.
sitzplatz17
Lead Service Attendant
Yes, but the price for an international upgrade is still usually pretty hefty.
At least on Delta, which is my airline of choice, I've never seen an international upgrade go for less than $1500 at the gate.
And you need to book an upgrade 24+ hours in advance if you're going to use miles.
If could be different on other, non-skyteam, airlines though.
Domestic flights are a different story though...
Actually, this might be an effort to get pax away from asking conductors (except in unusual situations) given the issues with a number of conductors refusing to do upgrades. Considering that even at an unstaffed station, you can still upgrade with a phone call and a smartphone ticket (or with a Quik-Trak and a phone call), I think they're basically trying to get around the "conductor problem" by getting as many folks to not bother the conductor.
JoeBas
Conductor
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2011
- Messages
- 1,214
I don't know, in all my trips I've yet to see anyone even ASK the conductor for an upgrade en route. I have a sneaking suspicion that the incidences related on this board are at a much higher proportion than overall incidences on board. I think it's just a matter of "If we have so few rooms available, and just 1 in 4 of them that we're selling now still sells at the high bucket to someone who finds their overnight coach experience less than idea, then we're breaking even. If 2 in 4 do, then we're way ahead. Why give away what you can sell?".
Mackensen
Lead Service Attendant
I've seen it ONCE in 40,000 miles, and it was a young mother with several children. The conductor was very helpful, but I think he was also anxious to get the whole family out of coach (Lake Shore Limited-Boston section). This would seem to be another change flowing from eticketing and ought to improve operational efficiency.
NAVYBLUE
Lead Service Attendant
Went LAX-CHI-WAS last year, asked conductor in all (4) segments for upgrade, ignored by (2) but got an upgrade form roomette to bedroom for $50 twice on SWC to CHI and CL to CHI. If it is there I will ask. if it's not there , I won't ask. Just like just about all hotels offer 10% off on rooms to seniors (55+), most fast food restaurants have a senior price for drinks and of course AMTRAK has a senior (62+) discount for the rail part of a coach or sleeper ticket. Doesn't hurt to ask NICELY.
NAVYBLUE
NAVYBLUE
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 4,893
On a flight to Europe, Delta offered $500 cash if people would take a later flight due to overbooking. We had paid about $400 so I walked up to the counter and asked if they would give us upgrades to Business Class on later flight instead of cash. They said they would think about it. About 15 minutes later, the agent came by and asked if we were still willing to do that and I said we would. Later flight (better because we arrived when we could check in to the hotel instead of too early to do so) cost me $500 to upgrade as that's what they would have given me in cash.
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 4,893
I think few people know about trying to upgrade and few know that meals are included which increases the value of the room (and lowers the "effective" cost of the room if you are going to buy meals anyway.
I would imagine that most people don't even know that you can get an onboard upgrade.
The "sell at low bucket" price was really an artifact of the old offline system. By having a fixed price list, the conductor wouldn't have to radio or telephone Amtrak HQ to get the current price. With the new online system, this information is immediately available.
The "sell at low bucket" price was really an artifact of the old offline system. By having a fixed price list, the conductor wouldn't have to radio or telephone Amtrak HQ to get the current price. With the new online system, this information is immediately available.
Im just home from the Gathering after riding 7 LD Trains and not a Single Conductor I talked with was aware of the new Policy about Upgrades while aboard the Train! The Eagle Conductor from FTW-SAS today said "I wish someone would tell me about this, we're always the Last To Know about things like this!" :wacko:
The days of the $50 Upgrade has probably gone the way of the AGR Loophole Trips!
The days of the $50 Upgrade has probably gone the way of the AGR Loophole Trips!
Last edited by a moderator:
Alan: I can believe that, actually. As it was, I think the conductor on the SWC the one time I did upgrade had to radio in to check the price for me. 'course, I also remember this ineffable look on his face when he came back with the price that just screamed "You've done trains enough that I know you're going to jump at this offer considering the situation on the train right now."
(For reference, we were about five hours behind and falling further behind at every meet...I think we were losing about 15-20 minutes per scheduled hour; we had dinner before LMY and hit FLG at about 4:00 AM; I just pulled the status updates for it, and the train made a very nice afternoon arrival at LAX the next day around 4 PM)
(For reference, we were about five hours behind and falling further behind at every meet...I think we were losing about 15-20 minutes per scheduled hour; we had dinner before LMY and hit FLG at about 4:00 AM; I just pulled the status updates for it, and the train made a very nice afternoon arrival at LAX the next day around 4 PM)
Nope, not at all. Originally the deal was 50% off the current bucket for many years. Then Amtrak changed things to it always being the low bucket for that segment.
However, in all cases since cell phones became common, was that the conductor had to call up to get the price and to have that space blocked off from sale at downline stations.
One would think that with the new eTicketing system that the process would actually be easier now than in the past. Yet rumor has it that part of the reason for the change is that apparently its now harder to do an onboard upgrade, not to mention that it does distract the conductor from doing his primary duties, so for those reasons the policy was changed so as to discourage onboard upgrades.
Of course now with eTicketing one can still call Amtrak at the 800 number and do your own onboard upgrade if you so desire, however there is no incentive for doing it that way. You might as well just visit with an agent if you are boarding from a staffed station.
- Status
