Planning a December trip! (Discussing SWC/CZ schedule performance etc.)

[Mr.Technician]

I'm planning a long Amtrak trip (for a family of four, I am the 20 year old planning the train component of the family trip ) to California that will probably take place in early December. Earlier is fine but December seems to have lots of low buckets!

Note that I live in the MSP area, so the Empire Builder is close by. However, I would more likely drive to Galesburg and catch the SWC/CZ there. The plan would be:

1. Drive to GBB and catch the SWC the same day.
2. Take the SWC to LAX, then switch to the CS and go to SBP to avoid LA traffic and see the coast by the train.
   1. In the event the SWC is too late to connect with the CS (there window is 2 hours), I would take the Surfliner to SBP. Off the top of my head there is a departure around 3 PM and another around 6 PM. My guess is Amtrak would simply reschedule me on one of these trains in the event I miss the CS.
3. Enjoy ourselves in CA!
4. Catch the CZ somewhere between EMY and SMF and return to Galesburg.

The main question mark with this plan is train performance, as both the SWC and CZ have been performing quite poorly lately. Last I checked, the SWC was 4+ hours late into LAX on average (for the past two months) and the CZ was 6+ hours late into GBB on average for the same period. Looking at the historical data from juckins.net suggests to me that this is a more recent trend.

If the CZ is more than a couple of hours late, it won't make sense to drive home that same day (GBB is about 6.5 hours from MSP), so it might make sense to spend the night in GBB. However, if I already need to spend the night in GBB, it would only increase the trip duration by one night to take the EB to CHI and connect with the SWC/CZ there. The appeal to this alternative is virtually no driving and being able to ride the entirety of the SWC, if not the CZ. However, it is more expensive as two nights in CHI is a lot more expensive than a single night in GBB, not to mention needing 8 tickets between CHI and MSP (4 people 2 ways). Too bad there is no hotel adjoining Union Station!

I do apologize for rambling but I am having a bit of fun planning this.

P.S. How is the scenery on the SWC/CZ in December compared to other months?

 

[Eric in East County]

What accommodations are you planning to book for your various trains? If your family will be making the entire trip in coach, missing a connection probably won’t inconvenience you too much. Missing a connection with reservations in a bedroom, roomettes, or a family bedroom would probably be a different matter.

 

[Mr.Technician]

What accommodations are you planning to book for your various trains? If your family will be making the entire trip in coach, missing a connection probably won’t inconvenience you too much. Missing a connection with reservations in a bedroom, roomettes, or a family bedroom would probably be a different matter.

Sleeper for SWC and CZ. Coach for the rest (which is probably just the short stint up the coast in the CS, assuming we skip the EB).

 

[Bonser]

What accommodations are you planning to book for your various trains? If your family will be making the entire trip in coach, missing a connection probably won’t inconvenience you too much. Missing a connection with reservations in a bedroom, roomettes, or a family bedroom would probably be a different matter.

Inconvenience would apply more to coach people than sleeper folks. For one,it would increase time spent traveling without being able stretch out. Sleeper people at least would have one section of trip in more comfortable accommodations.

 

[Mr.Technician]

Inconvenience would apply more to coach people than sleeper folks. For one,it would increase time spent traveling without being able stretch out. Sleeper people at least would have one section of trip in more comfortable accommodations.

Agreed. The question of how late I am likely to be dictates whether I should plan on spending the night in Galesburg or not. Even being a couple of hours late would mean getting back to MSP late that night.

 

[20th Century Rider]

It all looks good re your reservation... but if and when things go wrong with delays or etc, you can find yourself in a lot of hot water... reliant upon good res people who can make a vast difference in what happens next. The biggest problem with Amtrak travel is that there is very little reliability and everything is so random... one minute everything is fine, the next yer whole trip falls apart.

Be sure to have a back-up plan and if you can sync yourself for being flexibility with the possibility of losing money along the way... you will get through it better.

That is to say... don't count on things going as expected... be flexible, and if there is a bit Amtrak bungle know you have the chance to call customer service when you return.

That said... document everything when things go wrong.

Yup! It's an adventure for sure!

 

[Mr.Technician]

Yup! It's an adventure for sure!

Oh yes! This is unrelated to this trip plan but our 2018 trip out east was set back by our eastbound EB being 8 hours late, resulting in us missing out Capital Limited train. However, we had planned an extra day into the trip so we were still able to pick up our rental car (albeit a day later) once Amtrak scheduled us for the next day's CL.

For this trip, the only concern would be missing the CS up the coast but I think that is low risk as the Surfliner runs to SBP (apparently amtrak calls it SLO not SPB, I was going by airport code) as well.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Oh yes! This is unrelated to this trip plan but our 2018 trip out east was set back by our eastbound EB being 8 hours late, resulting in us missing out Capital Limited train. However, we had planned an extra day into the trip so we were still able to pick up our rental car (albeit a day later) once Amtrak scheduled us for the next day's CL.

For this trip, the only concern would be missing the CS up the coast but I think that is low risk as the Surfliner runs to SBP (apparently amtrak calls it SLO not SPB, I was going by airport code) as well.

Good to plan in lots of flexibility... especially with local frequent running trains.

 

[Mr.Technician]

Good to plan in lots of flexibility... especially with local frequent running trains.

Do you have any idea why the on time performance is worse now than it has been historically?

https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/a...end=08/05/2022&sort=d_ar&chartsize=4&smooth=0
https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/a...end=08/05/2022&sort=d_dp&chartsize=4&smooth=0

 

[GAT]

For this trip, the only concern would be missing the CS up the coast but I think that is low risk as the Surfliner runs to SBP (apparently amtrak calls it SLO not SPB, I was going by airport code) as well.

SLO is San Luis Obispo. SPB is Spartanburg, SC. SBP??? I don't know.

 

[Mr.Technician]

SLO is San Luis Obispo. SPB is Spartanburg, SC. SBP??? I don't know.

Wow, I must be tired to make a mistake in my correction.

However: san luis obispo airport code - Google Search I do think it's the legitimate airport code though not what Amtrak uses.

 

[Mr.Technician]

I am reviving this thread... Car rentals are looking expensive due to picking up the car in SLO and dropping it off in SAC. Aside from that, everything is coming together. We will be buying tickets for the trip out soon, which will give us enough points to purchase the return trip entirely for points. I am hoping the CZ bucket prices will drop soon, but I am not holding my breath.

Unfortunately, what would be a $400 rental for a standard SUV is more like $800-1000 as soon as I choose a different drop off location...

 

[TinCan782]

We will be buying tickets for the trip out soon, which will give us enough points to purchase the return trip entirely for points.

You are aware you will not receive the points (earned from Amtrak) until after you take the trip.
Points earned with the AGR credit card will appear with the next credit card statement after making the purchase.

 

[moselman66]

I am reviving this thread... Car rentals are looking expensive due to picking up the car in SLO and dropping it off in SAC. Aside from that, everything is coming together. We will be buying tickets for the trip out soon, which will give us enough points to purchase the return trip entirely for points. I am hoping the CZ bucket prices will drop soon, but I am not holding my breath.

Unfortunately, what would be a $400 rental for a standard SUV is more like $800-1000 as soon as I choose a different drop off location...

Is it worth the rental savings to start and end the rental in SLO, and take the Coastal Starlight up to the Bay Area the night before you head out on the CZ? It's about a 12 hour overnight connection so your last overnight would be in EMY, but the northbound Coastal Starlight is rarely more than an hour or two late even on bad days. Of course some of the rental car savings is burned by the extra rail fare SLO-EMY but it might be worth considering.

 

[zephyr17]

Okay, now that we have the SLP/SLO confusion straightened out,
1. According to the Surfliner schedule, there isn't any Surfliner going north of LA after the Starlight's 9:50 am departure at all, even one just going as far as Santa Barbara (actually Goleta where the layover facility is) with a bus connection. So the 2:57 pm train is the only alternative. If the SW Chief isn't going to connect, Amtrak will almost certainly rebook you on the 2:57 pm Surfliner. Make sure you can book GBB-SLO as one entry with 3-14 being one of the options. Some of the Starlight's connections have gotten wonky of late in the reservations system. My unscientific take on 3-14 connection (being too lazy to look at ASMAD right now) is 3 will either be early, or quite close to on-time, or miss 14 by a mile. It used to be pretty reliable, I've taken it myself. It's had problems recently, though. Note if it is really late, you will probably be booked on the 7:13 pm train to Santa Barbara with a bus connection to SLO, entirely missing the best of the coast run between Santa Barabara and Guadalupe.
2. In order to save money, I'd consider messing around California's Central Coast (a very scenic area with lots of tourist attractions), returning the car back to SLO and taking the Starlight or the Thruway bus to Emeryville so as to save one-way rental fees. The Hyatt in Emeryville is quite nice and connected to the Amtrak station by pedestrian bridge (although with an elevator that can be less than sanitary at times).
3. I doubt that Galesburg hotels will be entirely sold out. I'd look at making a reservation on a website or by calling when the Zephyr's performance looks like you will arrive too late for comfort. I think driving to GBB is a pretty good option

A couple of other points, we are in now within the 4-6 month window that yield management inventory reallocation happens, if it does. If you are seeing low(er) buckets now, I'd grab them, otherwise keep monitoring, we are in the early part of the window. Also check how much inventory is open at the current bucket. You can do up to 8 rooms (8 passenger max, each with their own room). If you can't get all 8 at the current, higher bucket, inventory may be getting tight at the current bucket and the chances of them allocating some to lower buckets goes down. You may be faced with the prospect of having to live with low(er) buckets on one train and not the other, the reallocation will likely not take place at the same time. Since Amtrak usually only allocates only a couple accommodations of any given type into the lowest allocated bucket, they pretty much ought to be grabbed when they show. You may be faced with the prospect of accepting a high(er) bucket on one train to get a low(er) bucket on the other. You might consider making two reservations, one outbound and one return to grab a good price on one while waiting for the other. There is no round trip discount on Amtrak and this also has the advantage is not having a missed ticket scan wreck a large part of the trip.

Note that in early summer the chances of any inventory being allocated into the lowest bucket on any train is very low to zero. Second lowest would be doing well, and middle may be as far as it ever goes. If you see a bucket drop, grab it even if seems like it may go lower. It probably won't.

Note what @TinCan782 said. You'll only get points for the purchase (which isn't bad with 3x on the preferred card for Amtrak purchases). The other 2x for travel will not be posted until after the ticket is scanned.

 

[Mr.Technician]

You are aware you will not receive the points (earned from Amtrak) until after you take the trip.
Points earned with the AGR credit card will appear with the next credit card statement after making the purchase.

Even the points from the purchase (minus the 2x for the AGR card) should be enough to get us over the edge, and if not we can always buy points to make up the difference.

Okay, now that we have the SLP/SLO confusion straightened out,

Consequences of my tired brain back in August.

Regarding your first point, I was hoping for the 2:57 Surfliner if we miss the Starlight (777 off the top of my head), so we're on the same page there. And I will be sure to ticket the SWC and CS together.

Returning the car in SLO has been on the table as I've discussed the cost and itinerary with the rest of the family. Sequoia National Forest and Yosemite are the two big items on the itinerary, so getting back to SLO vs SAC wouldn't be much different in terms of time. However, there isn't a connection from SLO to EMY that would fit well in the schedule. It would be much easier to drive to SAC from Yosemite and spend the night, then board the CZ around 11 the next morning, than to try to drive back to SLO and board a bus at 12:30 AM to connect with the CZ in the morning.

The only SLO > GBB option that includes the CZ and not the SWC is the second below:



Right now I am seeing lowest bucket for the SWC leg (~$620) and a mid bucket for the CZ (~$1050). Based on what you said I may not get anything better for the CZ, but that's fine especially considering I will use points for that leg.

 

[Alice]

For Yosemite and Sequoia NPs, more or less following your train trips, I'd look at driving from Sacramento. We used to do day and weekend trips to Yosemite from Berkeley, obviously overnight better. If you want to consider other train routes, then renting in Merced or Fresno is pretty convenient to both parks. Be sure to check road closures especially into Yosemite before picking a route, fire and rockfalls are the usual summer culprits. You'd take an Ambus from SLO to Hanford then wait. And wait! I just looked, you can get an Ambus just to Hanford, that is what I'd do if it doesn't screw up your train reservations.

 

[zephyr17]

The only SLO > GBB option that includes the CZ and not the SWC is the second below:

Right now I am seeing lowest bucket for the SWC leg (~$620) and a mid bucket for the CZ (~$1050). Based on what you said I may not get anything better for the CZ, but that's fine especially considering I will use points for that leg.

That is probably about as good as you are going to do. This is a "bird in the hand" situation. There's a chance you may see inventory allocated to a lower bucket on the CZ, but I think the odds of that are very low. In any case, I'd grab the SW Chief low bucket immediately even if you want to continue to take your chances on a lower bucket for the CZ. There is nothing wrong with having separate inbound and outbound reservations and no advantage to round trip.

As to SLO-GBB, I was not suggesting a continuous journey, but rather SLO-EMY and EMY-GBB with an overnight layover in EMY, which is why I mentioned the Hyatt there. I am well aware that a direct connection to the CZ from SLO would require a miserable ride on the overnight bus, that would absolutely put it out if the running, for me at least. SLO-EMY, EMY-GBB is easily bookable through the Multi-City option.

 

[Mr.Technician]

I'm finally back to the trip planning- unfortunately I missed out on the SWC low bucket. There was a single room left at $764 instead of the low $621, but Amtrak forced me to book both at the next higher bucket of $897. I guess I could have split the ticket, though.

They gave me two rooms on the 330 car (base sleeper, if I am not mistaken?) but they are rooms 3 and 12. I would prefer both being on the upper level, I assume I could call and see if there is another open room on the upper level?

Also, I can expect to see the second half of the 2x points for Amtrak purchases on an AGR card to show up after the date of travel, correct?

With the outbound tickets purchased and the CZ as expensive as ever for the return trip, it's a matter of finding the cheapest car rental from SLO to SAC and finding hotels.

 

[Mr.Technician]

Also, if we are boarding the SWC at Galeburg, will we still get dinner?

 

[joelkfla]

Also, I can expect to see the second half of the 2x points for Amtrak purchases on an AGR card to show up after the date of travel, correct?

No, all of the points from the credit card show up at the same time, a day or two after the closing date on the statement. The standard 2 points/$ AGR points, not related to the credit card, show up after completion of travel.