Police Activity Aboard California Zephyr

[ColdRain&Snow]

In a recent entry in my travel journal written while riding the westbound California Zephyr, I captured the details of what was a strange experience when we got to Reno. After walking around the trench for a bit, I reboarded and tuned into my scanner as we were preparing to depart. One of the conductors mentioned to his AC that the police had boarded the train. Neither knew where they had gone, so the conductor asked the engineer to whistle off so the cops would know to detrain. Within a minute, the conductor instructed the engineer to highball Reno and conjectured that they may be riding to Truckee. As we pulled out, I recalled reading past trip reports about Reno police boardings similar to this.

About 10 minutes later, I heard knocking on the bedroom doors down the hall from mine. As they got closer to my room, I could discern that they were undercover cops rousting the occupants of each bedroom and asking various questions. My curtain and door were open, and without notice, one of the UCs began to "peek" into my room and then quickly withdraw. Though I found it amusing, it also annoyed me so I called him out and asked him to stop doing it. At that time, both he and his partner walked into my doorway and asked if they could speak with me. Alas, I invited them to "come on in." After showing me his badge, he apologized "for acting sketchy" which I found to be funny since it's usually the cops accusing the perps of as much. He asked me my name and then pulled out a small notepad full of what looked like people's names. After scanning his list, he again apologized and said that I wasn't the guy they were looking for. Though the overall interaction was not a major imposition, it could have been handled with a bit more professionalism. My napping neighbors would later tell me that they were put off by the experience.

But it was the parting comments by one of the UCs that bothered me. Before he left, he took a long, slow look around my room and then warned me to carefully watch over my valuables, elaborating that there has been a serious issue with theft on the Zephyr. Huh? I try to follow Amtrak pretty closely, and I have never heard about a theft problem on this train. So, that leaves me with a few questions and concerns:

1. Has anyone heard of a theft issue on the California Zephyr? Did I miss this somehow?

2. If he made it up, what legitimate purpose would he have to do so? Needlessly alarming Amtrak passengers is bad for Amtrak, regardless of what his rationale might be.

I would like to pass this information on to someone at Amtrak, perhaps the station manager for Reno, just so s/he is aware of what's being communicated during these boardings. And it would also be helpful if we could confirm or repudiate this alleged theft issue on the Zephyrs.

 

[Blackwolf]

Hmm... If it were me, I'd be calling up Amtrak Police in the least and asking some questions, but maybe a letter to Amtrak Chief of Police John O'Connor would not be a bad idea? I take the risk of theft while traveling on Amtrak passively, and follow the "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" motto for personal items. I would have had some issues with the officers, but then again, I have a badge I can flash right back.

 

[pebbleworm]

Reno cops seem to have taken Reno 911 to heart and harass rail passengers whenever possible. I won't even go out on the platform when transiting that god forsaken city... Those boys in blue need something to do.

 

[tp49]

There are issues on the Zephyr but they're not with theft. Been going on for years and every now and then what is uncovered makes the news.

 

[Anderson]

There are issues on the Zephyr but they're not with theft. Been going on for years and every now and then what is uncovered makes the news.

Let me guess: Drugs?

 

[conductor_okj]

Drugs.....and durring the holiday travels theft does occure, usually to valuable electronics left un-attended in coach. PD is just looking out for you....unfortunately with low fares the greyhound crowd seems to ride amtrak more and more.

 

[Steve4031]

As witnessed in Dallas and in a few other places , drugs trafficking is an issue on most routes, not just the cz. Just like we apppreciate not going through security, drug dealers appreciate/use easier forms of travel too. In their minds, it's good business sense. Unfortunately for passengers on Amtrak, they are now subjected to more police activity as they look for the drugs.

In the case discussed above, imho, the police could have been less intrusive by asking the conductor for the manifest. Asking passenger their names, and then writing the name down makes no sense and is intrusive.

If the criminal just boarded, the conductor could help narrow the search by identifying rooms that were open before arrival in Reno. I'm not a police officer, so I don't really know what this was all about.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

1. Has anyone heard of a theft issue on the California Zephyr? Did I miss this somehow?

2. If he made it up, what legitimate purpose would he have to do so? Needlessly alarming Amtrak passengers is bad for Amtrak, regardless of what his rationale might be.

...also be helpful if we could confirm or repudiate this alleged theft issue on the Zephyrs.

I don't follow the CZ specifically, but I've not heard of any theft issues on the CZ either. Whether they had any business doing what they were doing is not my place to say, but it sounds like he was practicing that classic 'rear guard' action known as CYA. :huh:

IMHO actions like his are how rumors get started. Next thing you know we will have another 'unsolved mystery' like the 'theft' issues reported at SAS a while back... :wacko:

 

[jphjaxfl]

Wow! that reminds me of when I took the Direct Orient from Istanbul to Paris in 1971. When crossing the Bulgarian frontier during the middle of the night, the police came on board and woke up everyone in the Wagon Lit to check passports and questioned people. At other frontier crossings, during the night, the Wagon Lit conductor would collect tickets and passports to show to the police and no one was usually woke up. Of course that was when Bulgaria was a communist country and somewhat of a police state.

 

[user 1215]

Funny statement considering that lately many in the press have referred to Amtrak as a Soviet-era operation. I don't think so. We have much better equipment and food than the Soviets had...

From from a perspective of liberty... I degress...

 

[Shanghai]

We were awakend by the Immigration Police when crossing the border

from the Czech Republic into to Germany in the DB sleeper car. They

pounded on the door, looked at our passports and left.

 

[jis]

Funny statement considering that lately many in the press have referred to Amtrak as a Soviet-era operation. I don't think so. We have much better equipment and food than the Soviets had...

From from a perspective of liberty... I degress...

In my experience, the phrase "Soviet-era" is thrown about rather loosely in the US, and most who use it have no clue what Soviet era in Soviet Union was like and how good they have it in the US even in spite of all the bureaucracy and incompetence. We always have a chuckle or two about it with my Soviet era Russian friends.

I had crossed the iron curtain border at Hagyashelom between Austria and Hungary, and that was during daytime and it was certainly more unpleasant than crossing the border between US and Canada anyday. Heck crossing from Finland into post Soviet Russia at Vyborg, was quite an impressive experience too, complete with dogs and officious looking moustacheoed guy with a cap large than his head sniffing around the whole cabin and under the seat etc. It was time consuming but quite comical. In the reverse direction i.e. Russia to Finland the Russians spent more time dicking around in Vyborg. The Finns at Vanaikkala just took a cursory look at the papers and that was it, as long as you were not Russian and young it seemed. They were more interested in interdicting young Russians going to Finland to earn some money in interesting ways.

 

[zepherdude]

We were awakend by the Immigration Police when crossing the border

from the Czech Republic into to Germany in the DB sleeper car. They

pounded on the door, looked at our passports and left.

This makes me think of all the spy movies I have ever seen with ***** type men demanding "Papers". Then the horrible phrase, "Come with me". I have been checked on the LSL at Buffalo and the Sunset Limited somewhere along the route, sometimes in LAX. Never on the Zephyr, however.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I was "checked" ever so briefly by Border Patrol on the LSL in Buffalo. As I was passing from the Sleeper to the Diner, an Agent coming the other way very politely asked me my nationality, thanked me and went about her duty. One other agent even took time to explain for me what they are doing and how they can spot potential problems "on the fly."

 

[Bob Dylan]

In over 50 years of Travel, both in the USA and Internationally, the most hassles and biggest delays Ive experienced were when arriving into the USA, especially since the Security Circus that has been created since 9-11 has been implemented! The friendliest? Mexico and Canada! :wub: The scariest, as has been said, crossing Iron Curtain Borders back in the Cold War Days! The rudest and most officious, the USA wins again! :angry2: (Im not on any "Lists", have a valid Passport and am an Anglo Male that used to be clean cut and well dressed!(not that our guys would profile anyone! :lol: )

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

On one hand, I can fully appreciate that police have a challenging job dealing with a sometimes shadowy opponent. In my own life experience, the scourge of drugs snuffed out the life of my older brother, so I certainly appreciate that efforts are being taken to keep them off the trains I ride.

But my recent experience with the Reno police left me scratching my head. It's hard to know how much of what I saw was real versus ruse. The undercover officer pulled out a notepad which he appeared to check my name against before declaring that I was the wrong guy. This would imply that he already knew the name of his person of interest. As Steve4031 points out, why not simply obtain an advance copy of the manifest from Reno Amtrak and preemptively compare the names against it without invoking the heavy handedness of rousting bedroom occupants?

Regarding the UC's admonition that I should carefully watch over my valuables due to a "serious" onboard theft issue, I am left questioning his sincerity. Forcing bedroom occupants to respond to knocks on their door does not sound like an effort to address theft prevention. And if the intrusions were all about drug interdiction, then they should have said as much. As far as I know, theft in the sleepers has not been an issue, so floating a trial balloon out there that it is only hurts Amtrak needlessly.

I am certainly in favor of keeping Amtrak trains safe and riffraff free. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater by giving law enforcement free reign to speak and act with impunity while onboard Amtrak's trains. In my estimation, the Reno Police Department crossed this line a few weeks ago. 

 

[Bob Dylan]

Were these guys dressed like the idiots in Reno 911?? Perhaps it was an episode of the TV Show or a sequel to the Movie!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Actually, if it was a drug thing, unless it was a "tip" bust, there should have been dogs present to sniff out the drugs! More Security Theater, meanwhile Real Crime goes on all around us!!!

 

[PerRock]

As to the Reno incident, we know they were undercover but do we know that they were specifically on the Narc Squad? They may have been Robbery UCs; looking for a known theif; who intel suggested might be traveling on the CZ that day. I know generally when we civilians think of UCs we think of Narc UCs, but there are other UC departments.

Personally I've only been bothered on board once by CBP, it was on the EB & I was still fairly young (Middle School) so my mom handled them. I've been sniffed by Dogs at BOS, WAS & CHI; but that really doesn't count, the most they say is "keep moving".

The best Border Crossing incident I've dealt with personally (my parents have dealt with some for the family while I was with them) was crossing back into the UK from France. When the UK Border Agency questioned me. I was asked where I was going, so I listed: Oxford, Stonehenge, Portsmouth, and departing out of Heathrow. She then asked me "What do you plan on doing at ...[pause]... Stonehenge?"

peter

 

[The Chief]

As witnessed in Dallas and in a few other places , drugs trafficking is an issue on most routes,

Actually, Steve, there remains no evidentiary support of Dallas Amtrak having any drug trafficking issue. The (internal) investigation continues on DPD killing a passenger, who did not have any drugs, but reportedly had a handgun (drawn). That shooting -- by plainclothes police officers only -- also wounded another PAX and a fellow officer. I'm interested in your intel that drug trafficking is an issue on most routes.

Were these guys dressed like the idiots in Reno 911??

Jim here's a link to my photo and similar CZ-Reno PD thread this board.

But my recent experience with the Reno police left me scratching my head. It's hard to know how much of what I saw was real versus ruse. In my estimation, the Reno Police Department crossed this line a few weeks ago.

Jeff, this indeed sounds a bit heavy-handed by local (Reno) PD. If not heavy-handed, then poor "service." But the days of "To Serve and Protect" are long gone here. Names on a PAX manifest should be available to LEOs who have a valid legal reason.

Dry Cleaners and Local Cops are the only two professions I know who NEVER admit to making a mistake,,,

 

[AlanB]

Regarding the UC's admonition that I should carefully watch over my valuables due to a "serious" onboard theft issue, I am left questioning his sincerity. Forcing bedroom occupants to respond to knocks on their door does not sound like an effort to address theft prevention. And if the intrusions were all about drug interdiction, then they should have said as much. As far as I know, theft in the sleepers has not been an issue, so floating a trial balloon out there that it is only hurts Amtrak needlessly.

I would highly doubt that a cop from Reno would have any clue about theft onboard Amtrak. In most cases, any theft would be discovered after one was off the train, so the odds of a report being filed in Reno would be very small. It would be filed in the city where the person got off.

 

[Steve4031]

I stand corrected on the Dallas incident. However, over the past year or so I recall more reports of drug arrests aboard Amtrak.

 

[leemell]

In over 50 years of Travel, both in the USA and Internationally, the most hassles and biggest delays Ive experienced were when arriving into the USA, especially since the Security Circus that has been created since 9-11 has been implemented! The friendliest? Mexico and Canada! :wub: The scariest, as has been said, crossing Iron Curtain Borders back in the Cold War Days! The rudest and most officious, the USA wins again! :angry2: (Im not on any "Lists", have a valid Passport and am an Anglo Male that used to be clean cut and well dressed!(not that our guys would profile anyone! :lol: )

The rudest, most officious border crossing we ever participated in was from Braunschweig to Berlin in 1981. The train was stopped on West German side of the border, a new crew was put on the engine. The train was then moved about 500 feet to the East side and again stopped. Vopos (Volkspoltizei) on the platform (maybe 10-12) were all carrying submachine guns, other Vopos (maybe 6) were dog handlers who checked the entire outside of the cars and then inside the cars. A team of passport control officials boarded the train and moved through all the cars one compartment at a time demanding "papers" very loudly and very brusquely. ANYBODY who got the least bit out of conformance were in for a really bad time, including being pulled off the train a put in Politizei cars for a trip to the station. You never complain about customs again after that.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Wow, I just reread the previous post that The_Chief cited above and now remember that whole episode reported by OTownDog. I commend him for his patience and restraint on that day. Had they treated me that way, I would in all likelihood have spent an unscheduled day in Reno taking my outrage directly to the police chief.

After watching the

posted in the thread, it's clear that Reno PD Amtrak boardings are all about drug interdiction. One of the UCs in the video (Andy) was the one playing hide-and-seek at my bedroom door.
Why make up security rumors that reflect poorly upon Amtrak rather than state the truth that they're simply checking the train for drugs? Another case of law enforcement running amok.

 

[leemell]

Wow, I just reread the previous post that The_Chief cited above and now remember that whole episode reported by OTownDog. I commend him for his patience and restraint on that day. Had they treated me that way, I would in all likelihood have have spent an unscheduled day in Reno taking my outrage directly to the police chief.

After watching the

I don't know anything about the ruse if any, but I can tell you that the local PD is not interested about how it may affect Amtrak's public image. BTW, the courts have been very clear that the police can lie to suspects and the public with out criminal penalty while attempting to ferret out the truth.

 

[A.J.]

the last time I took the zephyr we had an extra long stop in Reno. the reason was that several men in the lower level roomettes were carrying on them an extraordinary large quantity of marijuana. they got caught because they were stupid, basically. interestingly enough, the SCA later implied that undercover police/federal agents are on the CZ pretty regularly. i had a nice, front-row view out the window of the subsequent goings-on on the platform. some of the uniformed police were a bit more umm, zealous than the undercover fellows, whom I had seen on the train earlier. it was actually an interesting situation and for the most part the officers involved behaved calmly and extremely professionally. that said, i too would be a bit more leery if they were suddenly poking their noses into my compartment.