Possible disposition of Amfleets and Horizons after ICTs are deployed

[MARC Rider]

When the new Siemens ICT sets arrive, I hope they consider retaining the Amfleet 1 and Horizon cars to offer a similar cheap service on the various corridors, and maybe some new corridors, too.

 

[jis]

When the new Siemens ICT sets arrive, I hope they consider retaining the Amfleet 1 and Horizon cars to offer a similar cheap service on the various corridors, and maybe some new corridors, too.

Have you seen those black roofed Amfleet Is? I am told that coating is to seal leaks. I don't think most Amfleets will be in any shape to be meaningfully retained without incurring significant midlife fixup costs including fixes to some structural elements. They will be over 50 years old by then.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Have you seen those black roofed Amfleet Is? I am told that coating is to seal leaks. I don't think most Amfleets will be in any shape to be meaningfully retained without incurring significant midlife fixup costs including fixes to some structural elements. They will be over 50 years old by then.

But it still will be a good idea to keep a Supply of those in the Best Mechanical Shape in Reserve.

 

[jis]

But it still will be a good idea to keep a Supply of those in the Best Mechanical Shape in Reserve.

Only if it does not cost too much to do so.

I agree that it would be a good idea to keep a dozen or twenty cherrypicked ones in relatively good shape that do not require too much work though.

 

[John Bredin]

When the new Siemens ICT sets arrive, I hope they consider retaining the Amfleet 1 and Horizon cars to offer a similar cheap service on the various corridors, and maybe some new corridors, too.

The Amtrak 5-year plan is clear that they're going to keep the Horizons for new corridor services "until they are replaced in the early 2030s by additional ICTs beyond the initial 83 trainset base order."

 

[jis]

The Amtrak 5-year plan is clear that they're going to keep the Horizons for new corridor services "until they are replaced in the early 2030s by additional ICTs beyond the initial 83 trainset base order."

Yes, now that you mention it, at least a part of that fleet will be retained. I suppose they will be demothballed /transferred to specific ConnectUS services that they can get the states to pony up for. I doubt that they will find their way into the LD network in a big way, though as short distance cars they could contribute mightily if they were allowed to.

 

[west point]

IMO Amtrak should keep 500 - 600 of the various single level cars that can be refurbished / rebuilt for an average of $1M - $1.25M a piece. That will provide both a reserve fleet and also allow all trains to meet all available dean. As well provide sellable space for various charter possibilities.

These cars and locos as well will need to be spread around the eastern part of the country however that hits the wall of lack of yard space. Western storage at LAX, OAK, SEA, DEN, PDX

Let us look at the various locations that those posters with more info area asked to provide corrections. Only locations with some form of maintenance personnel considered to keep rolling stock immediately roadworthy.
1. BOS - Space limited with maybe a few spots available at the yard and station at BON.
2. New Haven very limited with more MNRR = M-8s on order.
3. Springfield, Ma maybe a few?
4. NYP//SSY probably none.
5. Albany, maybe some but what routes would need more there?
6. PHL - does have some room
7. WASH - Additional AX-2 service will strain storage space. However, once the proposed VRE storage spaces SE of present tracks finally constructed will free up space. Note: VRE already sends some capacity to VA for storage.
8. Richmond not likely in near future
9. CLT - Once new station and storage maybe some but if NCDOT has more train sets unlikely.
10. ATL - No
11. JAX - MIA lots of storage but no need except for Silvers. If Palmetto extended to MIA then definitely some more.
12. NOL - Plenty of space but present and proposed services do not call for many spare cars. Now if Sunset to at least San Antonia became single level and daily then definitely needed more.
13 - IND / Beech - Of course for longer storage unlimited.
14. CHI - Limited storage space @ 14th street. Unknown at Brighton Park.
15. TOL - Some tracks could easily be restored.

The addition of more storage tracks at most of these locations will be very slow if permits and environmental reports are generally required.

 

[Cal]

I definitely think a sizable portion of it should be kept for any new routes that might be ready to launch before ICT's are available.

 

[MisterUptempo]

IMO Amtrak should keep 500 - 600 of the various single level cars that can be refurbished / rebuilt for an average of $1M - $1.25M a piece. That will provide both a reserve fleet and also allow all trains to meet all available dean. As well provide sellable space for various charter possibilities.

These cars and locos as well will need to be spread around the eastern part of the country however that hits the wall of lack of yard space. Western storage at LAX, OAK, SEA, DEN, PDX

Let us look at the various locations that those posters with more info area asked to provide corrections. Only locations with some form of maintenance personnel considered to keep rolling stock immediately roadworthy.
1. BOS - Space limited with maybe a few spots available at the yard and station at BON.
2. New Haven very limited with more MNRR = M-8s on order.
3. Springfield, Ma maybe a few?
4. NYP//SSY probably none.
5. Albany, maybe some but what routes would need more there?
6. PHL - does have some room
7. WASH - Additional AX-2 service will strain storage space. However, once the proposed VRE storage spaces SE of present tracks finally constructed will free up space. Note: VRE already sends some capacity to VA for storage.
8. Richmond not likely in near future
9. CLT - Once new station and storage maybe some but if NCDOT has more train sets unlikely.
10. ATL - No
11. JAX - MIA lots of storage but no need except for Silvers. If Palmetto extended to MIA then definitely some more.
12. NOL - Plenty of space but present and proposed services do not call for many spare cars. Now if Sunset to at least San Antonia became single level and daily then definitely needed more.
13 - IND / Beech - Of course for longer storage unlimited.
14. CHI - Limited storage space @ 14th street. Unknown at Brighton Park.
15. TOL - Some tracks could easily be restored.

The addition of more storage tracks at most of these locations will be very slow if permits and environmental reports are generally required.

Regarding storage in Chicago, I've wondered whether there's any chance Amtrak would consider acquiring the Canal Street Yard that currently belongs to UP?

It's located along the NS Chicago Line/Metra -Southwest Service tracks, where Canal St/23rd St/Archer Ave. intersect, just south of the former Pennsy South Branch Bridge. Probably a mile or so from Union Station.

UP no longer lists Canal Street Yard as an active intermodal yard on their website.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I think it's mostly trucks now - I assume you mean this one?

 

[MisterUptempo]

I think it's mostly trucks now - I assume you mean this one?

That's the one. Is it being used at all at the moment?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

That's the one. Is it being used at all at the moment?

Admittedly, its been a long time (4 years +/-) since I was close to it to get a good look - I did get some shots of the UP shield iirc - but I recall it being a truck yard, especially the south end of it. If you look at the aerial shot closely it looks like the tracks except the easternmost have been removed.

I'm too lazy to look up who owns it, but it would be a useful yard since it's raised and could be made relatively secure from vandals pretty easily.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

That's the one. Is it being used at all at the moment?

Not really, at least not by a railroad. Odds and ends. Mostly empty space. But only caught a glance while driving by.

 

[NSC1109]

IMO Amtrak should keep 500 - 600 of the various single level cars that can be refurbished / rebuilt for an average of $1M - $1.25M a piece. That will provide both a reserve fleet and also allow all trains to meet all available dean. As well provide sellable space for various charter possibilities.

These cars and locos as well will need to be spread around the eastern part of the country however that hits the wall of lack of yard space. Western storage at LAX, OAK, SEA, DEN, PDX

Let us look at the various locations that those posters with more info area asked to provide corrections. Only locations with some form of maintenance personnel considered to keep rolling stock immediately roadworthy.
1. BOS - Space limited with maybe a few spots available at the yard and station at BON.
2. New Haven very limited with more MNRR = M-8s on order.
3. Springfield, Ma maybe a few?
4. NYP//SSY probably none.
5. Albany, maybe some but what routes would need more there?
6. PHL - does have some room
7. WASH - Additional AX-2 service will strain storage space. However, once the proposed VRE storage spaces SE of present tracks finally constructed will free up space. Note: VRE already sends some capacity to VA for storage.
8. Richmond not likely in near future
9. CLT - Once new station and storage maybe some but if NCDOT has more train sets unlikely.
10. ATL - No
11. JAX - MIA lots of storage but no need except for Silvers. If Palmetto extended to MIA then definitely some more.
12. NOL - Plenty of space but present and proposed services do not call for many spare cars. Now if Sunset to at least San Antonia became single level and daily then definitely needed more.
13 - IND / Beech - Of course for longer storage unlimited.
14. CHI - Limited storage space @ 14th street. Unknown at Brighton Park.
15. TOL - Some tracks could easily be restored.

The addition of more storage tracks at most of these locations will be very slow if permits and environmental reports are generally required.

Brighton Park has no storage space.
You also have storage options on the AML in at least one, potentially three different places.

Michigan City
Battle Creek (NS uses a small portion of the yard)
Ypsilanti (I believe it’s at/near CP Townline).

 

[MisterUptempo]

Two other potential Chicago storage spaces come to mind-

1) The remnant of the Root Street Yard on the South Side, along the Rock Island mainline.

The site is only 8 or 10 acres, the yard tracks would need to be relaid, and trains would have to back out of the yard onto the main, but it's doable.

2) An even longer shot, but, again, likely doable, is to restore the southern half of Metra's Western Avenue Yard (former Milwaukee Road), located at Sacramento Blvd., just south of Chicago Ave, just west of the A-2.

The site is over 20 acres. Again, the yard tracks would have to be relaid.

The site is currently being used by the City of Chicago as a Streets and Sanitation auto pound. There's no real benefit to the pound being located there. The city has plenty of other empty lots to choose from, plus an auto pound has no large structures that would have to be rebuilt if it relocated. Maybe a trailer or two?

Perhaps the cost of restoring the yard could be folded into the Fulton Market Metra Station/A-2 De-tangling project that's finally in the planning stages.

Granted, neither of these are ready-made, "move in tomorrow" options, but something to keep in mind.

 

[frequentflyer]

Amtrak would rather the Amfleet for sure go bye bye. Less Mx inventory to keep. Can’t be easy sourcing parts for a 50 year old product

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Two other potential Chicago storage spaces come to mind-

1) The remnant of the Root Street Yard on the South Side, along the Rock Island mainline.

The site is only 8 or 10 acres, the yard tracks would need to be relaid, and trains would have to back out of the yard onto the main, but it's doable.

Are you talking about the site at 43rd & State or on the west side of the Dan Ryan?

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2016/06/rock-island-and-nyc-root-street-yards.html
Norfolk Southern's new yards could be grown to provide some space I suppose.

Of course, maybe we should just keep the trains on the move and in the yard less?

 

[Cal]

Of course, maybe we should just keep the trains on the move and in the yard less?

We're talking about where amfleets and horizons would go after they are replaced by Venture cars and before new routes are made where they might be needed. They wouldn't be in revenue service.

 

[MisterUptempo]

Are you talking about the site at 43rd & State or on the west side of the Dan Ryan?

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2016/06/rock-island-and-nyc-root-street-yards.html

You've got the right yard, former Rock Island/NY Central. East of the Ryan, along the Rock Island mainline. The western half of the yard was obliterated to make room for the Dan Ryan Expressway. But there is still a portion of the eastern half of the yard that remains, which is the space I was suggesting.

Ralph Metcalfe Park occupies the space immediately east of the yard, though the yard is elevated while the park is not. The park runs along State St, between Root and 43rd.

As far as the NS 47th Street Yard extension is concerned, how far along are they with that project?

I know it took them a while to get the last residents to move out. The extension is supposed to continue south all the way to 61st Street. If the yard is intended for intermodal use, there will be far fewer storage tracks available than with a purpose-built storage yard.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

You've got the right yard, former Rock Island/NY Central. East of the Ryan, along the Rock Island mainline. The western half of the yard was obliterated to make room for the Dan Ryan Expressway. But there is still a portion of the eastern half of the yard that remains, which is the space I was suggesting.

Ralph Metcalfe Park occupies the space immediately east of the yard, though the yard is elevated while the park is not. The park runs along State St, between Root and 43rd.

My guess would be that won't fly - the development in that area would probably not lend itself well to "industrial" uses. However, west of the Dan Ryan, probably less objections. I haven't been near the new yards for a while but I think nearer the rest of Amtrak's facilities would be better or out in the burbs or Rochell or something. Or, as I said earlier, keep the cars out on the road and moving more.

 

[Mailliw]

Presumably some portion will end up as private varnish. That could lead to some interesting Amfleet configurations.