problems on the Zephyr

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manderson

Service Attendant
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Feb 23, 2010
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Seattle
I'm on the Zephyr eastbound. They took us off at Winter Park yesterday and bussed us into Denver for the night. Apparently a car or truck driver hit a railroad bridge just west of Denver, causing enough damage that the repair will take 3 days. At least that's the story that's going around among passengers and crew.

The plan is that when the west bound train arrives this morning, those passengers will be bussed to the train sitting up at Winter Park, to continue on the CA. The WB train turns around to take us into Chicago.
 
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Mostly correct! A few clarifications...

-It was a backhoe or a bulldozer (unclear which) on a flatbed/wide load truck that struck the bridge. 3 days is the current estimate so far, and even then it may be a 10 MPH speed restriction; estimates on repair are still preliminary.

-6(16) made it as far as Winter Park, CO where passengers detrained and were bussed to Denver. That train set then reversed to Glenwood Springs where it was Wye'd and will wait.

-5(17) will detrain all passengers at Denver who will be bussed to Glenwood Springs to board the waiting consist there to head west; 5(17)'s consist will wye in Denver and turn to represent the continuation of 6(16) east to Chicago.

-6(17-18) and 5(18) are all slated detour through Wyoming between Denver and Salt Lake City with alternate transportation provided to the missed stops.

Rafi

UPDATE: Looks like service restoration on the normal route is going to be May 21 at the earliest.
 
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Wow.

I just returned home from a trip on #6 of the 15th from Sacramento to Denver.

We were on-time or early at nearly every station. Food was good, service good, the scenery on this route never gets old....just an all around great trip.

We may have been the only #6 to get through unscathed in the last week.

Trains 5 and 6 of the 14th encountered bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction. The 'new' #5 of the 14th met my train on Soldier Summit about 6:15am Sunday. That #5 was about 10 hours late.
 
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Wow.
I just returned home from a trip on #6 of the 15th from Sacramento to Denver.

We were on-time or early at nearly every station. Food was good, service good, the scenery on this route never gets old....just an all around great trip.

We may have been the only #6 to get through unscathed in the last week.

Trains 5 and 6 of the 14th encountered bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction. The 'new' #5 of the 14th met my train on Soldier Summit about 6:15am Sunday. That #5 was about 10 hours late.
I was on #6 from the 13th through the 15th. I rode with my mom from Sacramento to Chicago. We had slow orders through Iowa and arrived in Chicago a little over 2 hours late but nothing too bad. We were on time or early before hitting Iowa. Glad my ride worked out ok.
 
Wow.
I just returned home from a trip on #6 of the 15th from Sacramento to Denver.

We were on-time or early at nearly every station. Food was good, service good, the scenery on this route never gets old....just an all around great trip.

We may have been the only #6 to get through unscathed in the last week.

Trains 5 and 6 of the 14th encountered bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction. The 'new' #5 of the 14th met my train on Soldier Summit about 6:15am Sunday. That #5 was about 10 hours late.
I was on #6 from the 13th through the 15th. I rode with my mom from Sacramento to Chicago. We had slow orders through Iowa and arrived in Chicago a little over 2 hours late but nothing too bad. We were on time or early before hitting Iowa. Glad my ride worked out ok.

Hi is there any chance that the work won't be finished by Sat 29th? I'm scheduled to be on the CZ eastbound beginning on the 29th from EMY. THanks for any info.
 
I'm on the Zephyr eastbound. They took us off at Winter Park yesterday and bussed us into Denver for the night. Apparently a car or truck driver hit a railroad bridge just west of Denver, causing enough damage that the repair will take 3 days. At least that's the story that's going around among passengers and crew.
The plan is that when the west bound train arrives this morning, those passengers will be bussed to the train sitting up at Winter Park, to continue on the CA. The WB train turns around to take us into Chicago.
What time did the buses arrive, and what time did you get into Denver?

I was also on this train but chose to take the Greyhound bus which another passenger flagged down rather than wait for the Amtrak buses to arrive.
 
What time did the buses arrive, and what time did you get into Denver?
I was also on this train but chose to take the Greyhound bus which another passenger flagged down rather than wait for the Amtrak buses to arrive.
The busses departed around 9:15 PM; with no traffic, that would have put them into Denver around 10:30, I suppose.

Hi is there any chance that the work won't be finished by Sat 29th? I'm scheduled to be on the CZ eastbound beginning on the 29th from EMY. THanks for any info.
Nothing's 100% for sure at this point, but given that the last estimate for service reinstatement on the normal route was the 21st, I'd say that at this point your trip on the 29th will likely happen as planned. But your best bet is to call Amtrak a day or two ahead just to make sure. That said, if something does change that will affect your trip, Amtrak will be in touch with you in any case (assuming you gave them your phone number when you made the reservation).

Rafi
 
Here's hoping it's all clear come the 28th. I'm heading westbound on the Zephyr all the way to Sacramento. I've been looking forward to going through the Rockies! I guess though, making it there on the train is better than being stuck on a bus.
 
The busses departed around 9:15 PM; with no traffic, that would have put them into Denver around 10:30, I suppose.
Then I'm glad we opted to take the Greyhound; we arrived in Denver around 2015.

Given that, according to a news report I've seen online, the bridge was damaged around 1330, the best part of 3 hours before the train arrived at Winter Park, I find it crazy that it took so long to get the buses there. I'm just glad that a fellow passenger had the presence of mind to flag the Greyhound down, and that we happened to see it and went over to see if it was going to Denver. The Amtrak conductor simply made an announcement that the Greyhound bus wasn't there to pick us up - he didn't suggest it as an option for passengers to get to Denver. About a dozen passengers did catch the bus, but I think others may have if only they'd known about it.

I see that on the Amtrak website there appears to be absolutely no information about this delay or the route changes. When checking status for the train it says no information because of a service disruption, but then there's nothing about it on the service disruption page. Are they always this bad at providing information?

If someone has booked the trip specifically to see the Glenwood Springs-Denver section, as presumably many do, then surely they should be told they won't see it and so they can make an informed decision on whether to cancel. Similarly, if the re-routing affects timings, then people should know so they can make different arrangements if necessary.
 
1) Passengers affected by the reroute are being called by Amtrak's call center.

2) The reroute is faster than the normal route, so anyone not traveling to/from points between Denver and Salt Lake will not have their schedules changed.
 
Given that, according to a news report I've seen online, the bridge was damaged around 1330, the best part of 3 hours before the train arrived at Winter Park, I find it crazy that it took so long to get the buses there.
As I understand it, Amtrak was waiting on UP to get an engineering expert out to the bridge for an inspection. There was hope that your train would be allowed to cross the bridge at a restricted speed, and that's why they waited to call the busses. Once they determined that the bridge was indeed impassable, then Amtrak had to not only determine bus availability, but they had to determine the complete run of the busses (would they just go to WTP and back, or were they going to handle bussing pax both ways between both trains, how many busses express vs make intermediate stops, etc) before the busses were dispatched. My understanding is that Amtrak worked feverishly and the people involved in this disruption were not resting on their laurels.

I'm just glad that a fellow passenger had the presence of mind to flag the Greyhound down, and that we happened to see it and went over to see if it was going to Denver. The Amtrak conductor simply made an announcement that the Greyhound bus wasn't there to pick us up - he didn't suggest it as an option for passengers to get to Denver. About a dozen passengers did catch the bus, but I think others may have if only they'd known about it.
I doubt the conductor knew where the bus was going, obviously. From Amtrak's perspective, they were occupied trying to get dedicated, paid-for busses for the passengers; coordinating with Greyhound for a single bus would have added another level of complexity/distraction.

I see that on the Amtrak website there appears to be absolutely no information about this delay or the route changes. When checking status for the train it says no information because of a service disruption, but then there's nothing about it on the service disruption page. Are they always this bad at providing information?
There was a service disruption alert on Amtrak.com when it happened. I agree they should have probably left something up, but in fairness, they have been contacting affected passengers to let them know about the missed stops this week.

If someone has booked the trip specifically to see the Glenwood Springs-Denver section, as presumably many do, then surely they should be told they won't see it and so they can make an informed decision on whether to cancel. Similarly, if the re-routing affects timings, then people should know so they can make different arrangements if necessary.
I agree with you here, but from Amtrak's perspective, they are a transportation service provider first and foremost--not a tour cruise. The onus is on them to get you to your destination. Scenery is a selling point, but their perspective is that transportation comes first and scenery is a bonus. Would it be nice if they called every passenger on the train to tell them they're not going through the canyon? Sure. But that takes valuable resources away from what Amtrak sees as its primary mission for the reservation call centers: generating revenue (ie booking reservations).

Rafi
 
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I have been impresed with Amtrak's efforts to reach me in the past when some change would affect a trip that I had booked.

Neither call was 'good news'..... one was to notify me that my train the following day would be cancelled due to the threat of a hurricane and the other was when the sleeper was pulled off the short-lived Kentucky Cardinal....... but in both cases Amtrak notified me soon enough that I could either make other arrangements or so that I wasn't angry when I learned the bad news standing in a station somewhere.
 
As I understand it, Amtrak was waiting on UP to get an engineering expert out to the bridge for an inspection. There was hope that your train would be allowed to cross the bridge at a restricted speed, and that's why they waited to call the busses. Once they determined that the bridge was indeed impassable, then Amtrak had to not only determine bus availability, but they had to determine the complete run of the busses (would they just go to WTP and back, or were they going to handle bussing pax both ways between both trains, how many busses express vs make intermediate stops, etc) before the busses were dispatched. My understanding is that Amtrak worked feverishly and the people involved in this disruption were not resting on their laurels.
I do realise it was a complex operation to organise but something I would expect Amtrak to have contingency plans in place for when such situations arise - indeed, they'd dealt with a similar situation within the last couple of days. Amtrak staff may well have been working feverishly elsewhere but on site at Winter Park the staff seemed less than interested in the welfare of their passengers.

I don't understand your reference to "both trains" - on Monday afternoon there was just the one train, at Winter Park. The westbound wasn't due in to Denver until Tuesday morning. Also don't understand your reference to express or intermediate stops - there were no scheduled stops between Winter Park and Denver. On Monday they just needed to get everyone from Winter Park to Denver.

I doubt the conductor knew where the bus was going, obviously. From Amtrak's perspective, they were occupied trying to get dedicated, paid-for busses for the passengers; coordinating with Greyhound for a single bus would have added another level of complexity/distraction.
The conductor could easily have found out where the bus was going, as some of his passengers did, by walking across the road and asking the driver. I was not suggesting he co-ordinated with Greyhound, simply that he could have informed his passengers that there was an option for getting to Denver earlier, if they wanted to pay for it.
 
I do realise it was a complex operation to organise but something I would expect Amtrak to have contingency plans in place for when such situations arise - indeed, they'd dealt with a similar situation within the last couple of days.
It's virtually impossible in the transportation industry to have contingency plans for every conceivable service disruption. The best you can do is to draw broad contingencies and adapt as required by the scenario. In this case, Amtrak has relationships (sometimes contractual, sometimes not) with various bus and taxi companies across the US (some are part of the thruway operations, others are there only as backups in the case of service disruptions). In this case, the Denver company was contracted to take care of your train, but there is no way to have the company "on-call" 24/7 365 days a year with contingency plans for what to do when a train is stopped at Winter Park, CO, with any given number of passengers, given any time of the day, obviously. These things have to be worked out on the fly.

Amtrak staff may well have been working feverishly elsewhere but on site at Winter Park the staff seemed less than interested in the welfare of their passengers.
That's something that would be worthwhile to bring up with Customer Relations at 800-USA-RAIL. They actually do pay attention to feedback like this and it would be worthwhile for them to hear from someone that can speak first-hand about staff problems that day.

I don't understand your reference to "both trains" - on Monday afternoon there was just the one train, at Winter Park. The westbound wasn't due in to Denver until Tuesday morning. Also don't understand your reference to express or intermediate stops - there were no scheduled stops between Winter Park and Denver. On Monday they just needed to get everyone from Winter Park to Denver.
I should have given some more context. Arranging the busses from Winter Park to Denver was a small part of a more complex issue in planning for the days ahead. The operator Amtrak chose to handle the bussing from WIP-DEN would also be responsible for the next day's bussing of the westbound train's passengers from DEN-GSC, and ultimately part of bussing passengers DEN-PRO and points inbetween. All of that had to be worked out before an agreement could be reached on how many busses would be provided, where they would go, etc etc, and that had to happen before the first bus could be dispatched to WIP.

The conductor could easily have found out where the bus was going, as some of his passengers did, by walking across the road and asking the driver. I was not suggesting he co-ordinated with Greyhound, simply that he could have informed his passengers that there was an option for getting to Denver earlier, if they wanted to pay for it.
True. Again, something to tell Amtrak Customer Relations. Although, again, from Amtrak's perspective, that technically wasn't his duty. That crew's duty was to make sure the passengers got safely off of the train and onto the chartered bus. If he had gone the extra step to find out where the Greyhound bus was going, that would have been great. It's the way employees should be thinking. But again, that wasn't required of him, so it's hard to necessarily fault him.

Rafi
 
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I do realise it was a complex operation to organise but something I would expect Amtrak to have contingency plans in place for when such situations arise - indeed, they'd dealt with a similar situation within the last couple of days.
It's virtually impossible in the transportation industry to have contingency plans for every conceivable service disruption. The best you can do is to draw broad contingencies and adapt as required by the scenario. In this case, Amtrak has relationships (sometimes contractual, sometimes not) with various bus and taxi companies across the US (some are part of the thruway operations, others are there only as backups in the case of service disruptions). In this case, the Denver company was contracted to take care of your train, but there is no way to have the company "on-call" 24/7 365 days a year with contingency plans for what to do when a train is stopped at Winter Park, CO, with any given number of passengers, given any time of the day, obviously. These things have to be worked out on the fly.

Amtrak staff may well have been working feverishly elsewhere but on site at Winter Park the staff seemed less than interested in the welfare of their passengers.
That's something that would be worthwhile to bring up with Customer Relations at 800-USA-RAIL. They actually do pay attention to feedback like this and it would be worthwhile for them to hear from someone that can speak first-hand about staff problems that day.

I don't understand your reference to "both trains" - on Monday afternoon there was just the one train, at Winter Park. The westbound wasn't due in to Denver until Tuesday morning. Also don't understand your reference to express or intermediate stops - there were no scheduled stops between Winter Park and Denver. On Monday they just needed to get everyone from Winter Park to Denver.
I should have given some more context. Arranging the busses from Winter Park to Denver was a small part of a more complex issue in planning for the days ahead. The operator Amtrak chose to handle the bussing from WIP-DEN would also be responsible for the next day's bussing of the westbound train's passengers from DEN-GSC, and ultimately part of bussing passengers DEN-PRO and points inbetween. All of that had to be worked out before an agreement could be reached on how many busses would be provided, where they would go, etc etc, and that had to happen before the first bus could be dispatched to WIP.

The conductor could easily have found out where the bus was going, as some of his passengers did, by walking across the road and asking the driver. I was not suggesting he co-ordinated with Greyhound, simply that he could have informed his passengers that there was an option for getting to Denver earlier, if they wanted to pay for it.
True. Again, something to tell Amtrak Customer Relations. Although, again, from Amtrak's perspective, that technically wasn't his duty. That crew's duty was to make sure the passengers got safely off of the train and onto the chartered bus. If he had gone the extra step to find out where the Greyhound bus was going, that would have been great. It's the way employees should be thinking. But again, that wasn't required of him, so it's hard to necessarily fault him.

Rafi
with the greatest respect to passengers who made their own way into Denver, this is not the responsibility of Amtrak staff, their responsibility is to get Amtrak passengers to their destination safely , if passengers decide to seek alternative means to do this, then it at their own risk and not that of Amtrak and certainly not the resposibility of Amtrak personel to organize a few passengers who cannot wait patientley for them to do their job
 
Judging from negative complaints on this and other forums, apparently budget cuts have eliminated Amtrak's Department of Psychic Service Disruption Planning.

Probably the best stopgap action would be to add a bus and rested driver on a flatcar on the rear of all LD trains.

Then beef up the 24/7 All Weather One Hour On Call Standby Bus Divison. :)
 
Judging from negative complaints on this and other forums, apparently budget cuts have eliminated Amtrak's Department of Psychic Service Disruption Planning. Probably the best stopgap action would be to add a bus and rested driver on a flatcar on the rear of all LD trains.

Then beef up the 24/7 All Weather One Hour On Call Standby Bus Divison. :)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Aloha

But would that option not have a number of service Hours issue :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Amtrak staff may well have been working feverishly elsewhere but on site at Winter Park the staff seemed less than interested in the welfare of their passengers.
That's something that would be worthwhile to bring up with Customer Relations at 800-USA-RAIL. They actually do pay attention to feedback like this and it would be worthwhile for them to hear from someone that can speak first-hand about staff problems that day.

Rafi
I disagree that train staff seemed uninterested in passenger welfare. The reality is that they simply didn't know what arrangements were being made, and once they did know, update announcements were made. There was a group of overseas visitors occupying most of the roomettes on the train, and some of them were very vocal and insistent that staff give them answers *now.* On the next day's trip on into Chicago, I overhead at least two instances where these passengers positively berated staff (once the conductor and once our SCA) for the delay and lack of definite answers about their missed connection. From what I saw the staff remained patient and courteous under very trying circumstances, and I intend to write Amtrak to commend the staff as soon as I return from this trip.
 
Does anyone know if the CZ is running again through Colorado? Is the bridge work done? THanks!
 
I enjoy Amtrak, I agree with the case for it's potential efficiency, and I try to ride it whenever it makes sense in my travels, but Amtrak won't truly succeed unless it's willing and able to move far beyond the expectations of the 1970's. This story sounds very similar to my own experiences on Amtrak, with the minimum expectations of staff being the best you can hope for. That works fine for airlines but it needs to change for Amtrak. We are a country of free thinkers and innovators, or at least we once were, and now is the time for Amtrak to rise to the occasion in order to build on the many stumbles of our aviation market. I don't doubt that some folks were working as hard as possible to get alternative transportation arranged, but among the Amtrak employees we interact with everyday there needs to be a serious re-focus on customer service. Following the indifferent path of the airline world isn't going to win any new converts over to Amtrak. There are some really good, extremely dedicated souls working for Amtrak, but there are also plenty of lazy bums who can't be bothered to even look busy, even when the **** is hitting the fan. I know that nothing is ever Amtrak's fault, but if they want to win back America's trust for the future they'll need to start following the lead of other modern rail systems and stop using their contract of carriage as their best case scenario. It's going to be hard, thankless work, but that's what it will take to get our passenger rail system back into contention for long-haul traffic. Like most of you I want Amtrak to succeed, but I'm not willing to accept that what we currently get is the best we can expect.
 
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