Raton pass delays

[alanh]

For at least a week, the Southwest Chief has been losing 45-90 minutes between Raton and Las Vegas, NM, going both ways.

Is there a track issue? As far as I know, BNSF no longer uses it so it can't be freight conflicts.

 

[Cal]

For at least a week, the Southwest Chief has been losing 45-90 minutes between Raton and Las Vegas, NM, going both ways.

Is there a track issue? As far as I know, BNSF no longer uses it so it can't be freight conflicts.

I believe they're working on getting the track to welded rail. Last time I went through it (late July) there was equipment on the grade.

However, it's beyond stupid that they can't schedule track work to not interfere with two trains that go over the pass regularly.

 

[cirdan]

If they're putting money into improving the rails, that is surely a good sign as it makes it less likely that BNSF can threaten to close the route because of poor condition of track.

 

[zephyr17]

I believe they're working on getting the track to welded rail. Last time I went through it (late July) there was equipment on the grade.

However, it's beyond stupid that they can't schedule track work to not interfere with two trains that go over the pass regularly.

They no doubt try to schedule the work gangs so they are not active at the times the Chief is supposed to pass.

However, track undergoing such maintenance typically cannot be done be done in a single shift. The track is left passable, but not at track speed. The work area will be slow ordered, perhaps very slow.

I doubt the Chief is being held up by the work window itself, but rather by slow orders in the zones being worked.

 

[BlackDiamond]

As I recall besides the jointed track there were still some semaphore signals in use on that section. Probably the last main line in North America to be so equipped. I wonder if they will be updating them also. In a way it will be a shame to see them go although the more modern color lights are probably better from a safety standpoint.

 

[Ryan]

(off topic)

Lubec? That's a long way from an Amtrak station!

We visited your fair city on our road trip this summer and fought to be the easternmost person in the US.



(ok, back to much further west)

 

[BlackDiamond]

Yes Ryan, I guess that makes me the Easternmost Amtrak Fan in the US

We get down to Lewiston a lot as we have family there and that is usually my base of operations for train trips e.g. the Downeaster as Brunswick is only 30 min away.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

As I recall besides the jointed track there were still some semaphore signals in use on that section. Probably the last main line in North America to be so equipped. I wonder if they will be updating them also. In a way it will be a shame to see them go although the more modern color lights are probably better from a safety standpoint.

I made it a point to photograph some of the remaining semaphores when I was out west this year.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Also as you can see in the first picture, they seem to be still using the open wire telegraph type lines. Open wire lines can run much longer distances without needing a repeater than the cables mostly used today. Probably an advantage in such a remote area.

 

[alpha3]

I made it a point to photograph some of the remaining semaphores when I was out west this year. View attachment 25206View attachment 25207

Nice, great pics, love that dark sky in the background of the approaching train. I didn't realize there were any semaphores left at all! Which train/line is that?

 

[alanh]

It's the Raton section of the SW Chief. And yes, I'm pretty sure it is the last main line with semaphores.

Did they finally get funding to upgrade the line? Last I heard BNSF wanted to abandon it and it was deteriorating. The potential abandonment is why BNSF didn't want to replace the semaphores.

 

[zephyr17]

It's the Raton section of the SW Chief. And yes, I'm pretty sure it is the last main line with semaphores.

Did they finally get funding to upgrade the line? Last I heard BNSF wanted to abandon it and it was deteriorating. The potential abandonment is why BNSF didn't want to replace the semaphores.

BNSF, Amtrak and local governments reached an agreement that Amtrak and local governments would fund capital improvements to improve reliability and reduce maintenance costs and BNSF would agree to continue to pay for maintenance and keep the line open. Amtrak and local governments are doing so with Federal grants.

That is pretty old news. It is that agreement that Anderson legendarily tried to blow up by refusing the already approved grant and his moronic plan to bustitute the Chief for like 700 miles. That resulted in a specific Congressional mandate to run the Chief.

PS, the remaining semaphores are quite far south of Raton, much closer to Glorietta.

 

[Rasputin]

There was a proposal at one time for this section of track to be purchased by the State of New Mexico. Did that happen?

 

[zephyr17]

There was a proposal at one time for this section of track to be purchased by the State of New Mexico. Did that happen?

The agreement was executed as BNSF had made it a condition in order to sell the the Belen-Lamy segment that is what New Mexico really wanted. The sale was to go in stages.

Once they got possession of Belen-Lamy, New Mexico reneged on the agreement.

NMRX owns Belen-Lamy, which the SWC runs on Isleta-Lamy. BNSF still owns it north of Lamy.

 

[Cal]

The last semaphores are right by wagon mound and I believe there is a set closer to the end of glorieta pass, going east. Other than that I believe they are all gone.

This is what I observed on my last Chief trip going westbound, I may have missed some as I wasn’t just looking out

 

[NSC1109]

They no doubt try to schedule the work gangs so they are not active at the times the Chief is supposed to pass.

However, track undergoing such maintenance typically cannot be done be done in a single shift. The track is left passable, but not at track speed. The work area will be slow ordered, perhaps very slow.

I doubt the Chief is being held up by the work window itself, but rather by slow orders in the zones being worked.

This is exactly right. BNSF actively tries to avoid delays for Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

There was a proposal at one time for this section of track to be purchased by the State of New Mexico. Did that happen?

Richardson was succeeded by Martinez, the agreement with BNSF was reversed, and NM spent the money on highways and tax breaks.

 

[alanh]

Today #3 lost about an hour between RAT and LSV; #4 lost an hour and 20 minutes.

 

[SWRailroadPhotography]

Raton Pass Delays are most likely due to the following

1. BNSF recently dumped welded rail between Raton & Lamy between August to mid September 2021. Also Ballast trains continue to dump new ballast along the line.

2. MOW Crews are working on track between Raton & Las Vegas.

3. recent news I’ve been informed that the signals at Springer at MP706 keep displaying stop indication which is causing delays for both Chief’s

part of the project also mentions BNSF will be replacing numerous grade crossings and 2 bridges along the route. Also what looks like a PTC tower was installed at Glorieta
BNSF does have small select amount of crews qualified to operate between Albuquerque > La Junta and per their contract with NMRX they retain trackage rights and the possibility to take back the line of freight traffic was to increase.

Second
BNSF NEVER SAID they had plans to abandon Raton > Albuquerque. They said in 2011 that IF the Chief was to cease operations on the route. It would be downgraded to Class 2 track. BNSF did file with the states of Colorado and New Mexico in 2009 their intention for the line was to be used a relief route for the Clovis & Hereford Subs. This is also mentioned in the New Mexico State Rail Plan.
BNSF is working with the NMDOT & City of Los Lunas to building a facility on the Glorieta Sub east of Dalies by Isleta, NM. This has been verified & certified by BNSF as operations site.
UPRR is currently using part of the Raton Sub in Trinidad through the Jansen X-Overs for export of the coal out of the former Allen Coal Mine now known as the Elk Canyon Coal mine. BNSF sent a OCS special in July 2021 with bnsf ceo and management on board to view the condition of the track in preparation of UPRR using it.


third
BNSF trackage in northern NM is between MP835 (East Lamy) area to Raton Tunnel.
NMRX Railroad (NMDOT) owns MP835 to MP 915 at Isleta Junction, and to Belen, NM at MP 932.4 at CP Ross.

fourth
semaphores left on the BNSF side are from Springer, NM MP 706 > MP 725.3 Wagon Mound, NM

South Las Vegas, NM MP770.1 > MP791 Bernal, NM

Semaphores on the NMRX side
Isolated to the small town of Los Cerrillos next to Devils throne at MP 854.2 (these I’ve been told are scheduled to be replaced)

 

[Rasputin]

No. 4 scheduled to pass through Raton today is delayed about 7 hours due to a derailment on the Needles Sub.

 

[Barb Stout]

Raton Pass Delays are most likely due to the following

1. BNSF recently dumped welded rail between Raton & Lamy between August to mid September 2021. Also Ballast trains continue to dump new ballast along the line.

2. MOW Crews are working on track between Raton & Las Vegas.

3. recent news I’ve been informed that the signals at Springer at MP706 keep displaying stop indication which is causing delays for both Chief’s

part of the project also mentions BNSF will be replacing numerous grade crossings and 2 bridges along the route. Also what looks like a PTC tower was installed at Glorieta
BNSF does have small select amount of crews qualified to operate between Albuquerque > La Junta and per their contract with NMRX they retain trackage rights and the possibility to take back the line of freight traffic was to increase.

Second
BNSF NEVER SAID they had plans to abandon Raton > Albuquerque. They said in 2011 that IF the Chief was to cease operations on the route. It would be downgraded to Class 2 track. BNSF did file with the states of Colorado and New Mexico in 2009 their intention for the line was to be used a relief route for the Clovis & Hereford Subs. This is also mentioned in the New Mexico State Rail Plan.
BNSF is working with the NMDOT & City of Los Lunas to building a facility on the Glorieta Sub east of Dalies by Isleta, NM. This has been verified & certified by BNSF as operations site.
UPRR is currently using part of the Raton Sub in Trinidad through the Jansen X-Overs for export of the coal out of the former Allen Coal Mine now known as the Elk Canyon Coal mine. BNSF sent a OCS special in July 2021 with bnsf ceo and management on board to view the condition of the track in preparation of UPRR using it.


third
BNSF trackage in northern NM is between MP835 (East Lamy) area to Raton Tunnel.
NMRX Railroad (NMDOT) owns MP835 to MP 915 at Isleta Junction, and to Belen, NM at MP 932.4 at CP Ross.

fourth
semaphores left on the BNSF side are from Springer, NM MP 706 > MP 725.3 Wagon Mound, NM

South Las Vegas, NM MP770.1 > MP791 Bernal, NM

Semaphores on the NMRX side
Isolated to the small town of Los Cerrillos next to Devils throne at MP 854.2 (these I’ve been told are scheduled to be replaced)

Thanks for this information.

 

[SWRailroadPhotography]

Confirmed, Semaphores at 706.2 will be removed to avoid further delays.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Confirmed, Semaphores at 706.2 will be removed to avoid further delays.

Do you have an ETC on this, as in next few days or next few weeks?

 

[SWRailroadPhotography]

It’s happening right now as we speak. I’m driving back from springer semaphores.

 

[MARC Rider]

I'm glad I was able to ride the route back in 2015 and see the semaphores in action.