Resumption of Amtrak service to Canada (2022-2023 Q2)

[jis]

I hear they have designated a track for a "train jail" at Montreal like they have at Vancouver and at least some other preliminary design work for port of entry facilities has been done. But it is not moving fast from what I hear.

Has it actually been fully funded by Quebec or Canada yet? I have not heard anything this way or not. Maybe time to touch base with Carl Fowler in Vermont to get the latest.

 

[zephyr17]

Has it actually been fully funded by Quebec or Canada yet? I have not heard anything this way or not. Maybe time to touch base with Carl Fowler in Vermont to get the latest.

I don't know. I know funding is one of the hold ups, that is about it.

 

[neroden]

I hear they have designated a track for a "train jail" at Montreal like they have at Vancouver and at least some other preliminary design work for port of entry facilities has been done. But it is not moving fast from what I hear.

The design work at Montreal is several years old. I've seen the diagrams, though I don't have them now.

Yes, they designated a track and a platform and preliminary layout for customs facilities, with elevator and escalator. They have to restore a platform in an area currently abused by local employees as automobile parking; I have no idea how much trouble "taking away parking" is causing in this process.

The process was well in hand -- the biggest previous obstacle, the Canadian federal preclearance treaty and legislation, was finished -- when the Quebec government changed and people at Amtrak and Vermont DOT were suddenly unable to find anyone to talk to in Quebec for several years. I hear that the process has restarted but have not heard of any specific progress since then.

 

[jis]

As I alluded to above, I did get in touch with Carl from Vermont who knows the most upto date information about the Vermonter. What he said is not very encouraging.

Apparently the new Quebec Government has pretty much trashed everything that had been done so far and has started a review of the entire project from scratch. So whatever progress had been made towards funding is not there anymore. Neither Amtrak nor VTTRANS has gotten in touch with CN regarding any necessary track upgrade for extending the Vermonter.

CN is likely to want the operation of the Richeleu River Drawbridge to be automated, as it is currently hand operated. They will also want the switch at Cantic to be remote operated instead of hand thrown as now.

While at it CN has also threatened to downgrade the line in the US to both St. Albans and to Rouses Point to 10mph since according to them there are no passenger trains running anymore. Afterall, all of the freight traffic on CP continues on CP at Rouses Point.

Now the Vermont folks are trying to get New York on board to work on getting a grant from the Infrastructure plan to get the necessary track issues at least taken care of. As for when Quebec will get around to doing anything is now anyone's guess. But bottom line is everything is back to square one, if not all the way to square minus one.

 

[Exvalley]

Canada allowed Americans back in a few months before USA allowed Canadians back in. From the article: "Last year Canada reopened its borders to Americans in August, and America reopened its borders to Canadians in November."

Canadians were allowed to fly to the United States well before Canada allowed Americans to enter. The article is addressing the land border.

To really open up travel, Canada needs to drop its testing requirement. As of March an antigen test will be sufficient, but it's still a pain in the neck since a self-reported home test does not qualify.

 

[CJIMI]

So, any idea when service to Montreal will re-start on the Adirondack ?

 

[zephyr17]

So, any idea when service to Montreal will re-start on the Adirondack ?

No.

Rumor has it Amtrak wants to restart the cross border services simultaneously or near simultaneously. This despite the fact that all three are state funded, not National Network trains, so resumption should be largely a state decision once border procedures are hashed out. Also they each have different border procedures (Cascades most everything is done in Vancouver except US Customs inspection, Maple Leaf, inspections in station at border, Adirondack onboard at border). Plus the Maple Leaf has the added complication of being VIA operated in Canada, so restarting that one is not solely an Amtrak decision.

Pretty much no one knows. I do know Washington DOT wants service to resume as early as it can. I do not know New York State's position on its Maple Leaf and Adirondack services.

 

[neroden]

New York's governor changed recently and I doubt the new administration has formed a position. I haven't been very active in Empire State Passengers Association but ESPA is apparently working on it.

 

[williamn]

Am hoping to take Maple Leaf in July...not getting my hopes up!

 

[zephyr17]

Am hoping to take Maple Leaf in July...not getting my hopes up!

I am hoping to take both the Cascades and Maple Leaf in November. I am mildly optimistic about the Cascades, I am not that optimistic about the Maple Leaf.

 

[Amtrak25]

Even though VIA Rail has nothing to do with the Adirondack's revenue operation north of Rousses Pt, they have to haul it to the yard and back, and service it overnight in Montreal. You'll see those little brown VIA Rail garbage backs (and can keep one as a souveneir) at each seat upon boarding in Montreal.

Another quesion is if the Port Kent ferry will ever come back. It didn't run the last two summers, recently scrapped the 107 year old "Adi", and are looking for full time deckhands for the Grand Isle and Charlotte routes, not the Port Kent one.

 

[jiml]

Resumption of cross-border services will require the harmonization of vaccine and mask mandates between the two countries. Ontario and other provinces have removed proof-of-vaccination for most things, but trains are federally regulated and there has been little indication of movement in Canada until later in the year.

 

[Amtrak25]

If Greyhound is any example, the Montreal - Vermont - Boston route of 1 frequency (there were 4 pre-pandemic) that also skipped Burlington for some reason, went back down to 0 after a month or so. Adirondack Trailways from NYC-PABT has their normal 2 frequencies, but Greyhound went from 0 to 2 in January, but then quickly back to 1. There were 3 or 4 pre-pandemic.

Requiring any sort of test within 72 hours is a show-stopper for me, and I thnk a lot of other people. It has to be done by a lab, not a home test, like the CDC rapid test they might have mailed you.

 

[zephyr17]

Resumption of cross-border services will require the harmonization of vaccine and mask mandates between the two countries. Ontario and other provinces have removed proof-of-vaccination for most things, but trains are federally regulated and there has been little indication of movement in Canada until later in the year.

It doesn't require harmonization any more than air or bus travel does. It just requires agreed upon processes to enforce each nation's requirements.

 

[Exvalley]

A source that has been very reliable in the past tells me that the testing requirement for entry into Canada will be abolished altogether starting on March 31st. They say that an announcement will be made very soon. We shall see...

 

[Exvalley]

Requiring any sort of test within 72 hours is a show-stopper for me

The problem for me is that, unless I want to travel and pay a lot of money, there is not a local testing source that can reliably guarantee a test result in 72 hours. This makes it difficult to commit to hotels since the cancellation window closes before you know if your test result will be in on time.

 

[niemi24s]

Requiring any sort of test within 72 hours is a show-stopper for me, and I thnk a lot of other people. It has to be done by a lab, not a home test, like the CDC rapid test they might have mailed you.

And if that test is an RT-PCR CPOVID-19 lab test it can be kind of pricey. Paid $200 for one in NOL three weeks ago but the lab advertised results within 15 minutes. Walgreens and CVS can also take the swab sample but need to send the sample to a lab and claim results only within one to three days. Thiers were $50 to $60 cheaper however.

 

[jiml]

It doesn't require harmonization any more than air or bus travel does. It just requires agreed upon processes to enforce each nation's requirements.

Air travel is effectively harmonized and bus travel is irrelevant. Vaccination is not required to travel on Amtrak but is required for train travel in Canada. Who enforces that? Does Amtrak check status and offload non-compliant Cascade passengers in Bellingham or just wait until restrictions ease before resuming service? The latter makes more sense.

 

[zephyr17]

Air travel is effectively harmonized and bus travel is irrelevant. Vaccination is not required to travel on Amtrak but is required for train travel in Canada. Who enforces that? Does Amtrak check status and offload non-compliant Cascade passengers in Bellingham or just wait until restrictions ease before resuming service? The latter makes more sense.

Amtrak can require an ArriveCan result code of V (Vaccinated but documents require checking) or I (Immunized, no further check required) be displayed either on the ArriveCan app or by paper printout, just like requiring a passport other valid travel document.

Vaccination proof is submitted with ArriveCan application. CBSA does the validating to its satisfaction and determines the result code.

That is what the airlines do, since ArriveCan is required of everyone heading to Canada.

Those without a valid ArriveCan result code can be deboarded in Bellingham, just like people ticketed for Canada without a passport were before all this started. Amtrak conductors made sure all passengers proceeding past Bellingham had a valid document for Canadian entry.

Doesn't really sound like you ever rode the Cascades pre-COVID, and so are unfamiliar with the procedures on it. Deboarding at or before Bellingham or refusal of boarding was normal for those without proper documents to cross the border.

You didn't need a passport to ride Amtrak, either. But you needed one to ride Amtrak to Canada. ArriveCan is just another required travel document.

No "harmonization" is needed any more than for airlines, just a process.

 

[bbappel]

In a minor defense of the OP, your statement: "Doesn't really sound like you ever rode the Cascades pre-COVID, and so are unfamiliar with the procedures on it. Deboarding at or before Bellingham or refusal of boarding was normal for those without proper documents to cross the border," presumes that any of us have a pre-Covid memory bank left. I've forgotten so much over the past two years.

 

[WWW]

Wonder if Amtrak bears the same responsibility as the airlines do ?
If the transport of a passenger without proper documentation happens then that transporting agent is
responsible to return the said passenger (immediately) back to the point of origin.
Or something on that order -
A mistake was made -
The solution correction is to return the passenger back to the point of origin -
Other fines and penalties maybe taken up right then and there or later.
Airlines are particularly keen on this - flying a passenger for 10 hours and then having a return 10 hours later
and perhaps footing the (non-medical) quarantine in the mean time and the loss of a revenue seat.

What is great air travel between Canada and the US is the preclearance so when one is boarding
in Canada you are now on a domestic flight in the US.
How does Amtrak compare in this ?

 

[zephyr17]

Wonder if Amtrak bears the same responsibility as the airlines do ?
If the transport of a passenger without proper documentation happens then that transporting agent is
responsible to return the said passenger (immediately) back to the point of origin.
Or something on that order -
A mistake was made -
The solution correction is to return the passenger back to the point of origin -
Other fines and penalties maybe taken up right then and there or later.
Airlines are particularly keen on this - flying a passenger for 10 hours and then having a return 10 hours later
and perhaps footing the (non-medical) quarantine in the mean time and the loss of a revenue seat.

I am pretty sure the rules apply to all common carriers, irrespective of mode.

Not only do they have to carry the passenger back at their own expense, although they will apply the return ticket if there is one, the carrier gets fined and those fines can be stiff.

Note the fine occurs only if the carrier allows the passenger to be transported when the passenger lacks proper documentation, such as a passport with the proper visa (when required) or in this case, an ArriveCan authorization. If the immigration agent decides to deny entry to a traveler with proper documents for other reasons, say, lack of funds or suspicion of intent to work, the carrier still has to transport the person, but the carrier does not get fined.

 

[wildchicken13]

I apologize if this is a stupid question, by why doesn't Amtrak check passports at the point of departure? I understand that not everyone on the train is going to Canada, but for the people who are, wouldn't it make more sense to check passports before boarding, rather than on the train?

 

[Willbridge]

I apologize if this is a stupid question, by why doesn't Amtrak check passports at the point of departure? I understand that not everyone on the train is going to Canada, but for the people who are, wouldn't it make more sense to check passports before boarding, rather than on the train?

It's not stupid at major stations, but when these trains stop at unstaffed stations the dwell times would go up. And it would be awkward for passengers handling their luggage, kids, pillows, etc. to have to show everyone's passports on the platform, in various types of weather.

 

[Amtrak25]

I apologize if this is a stupid question, by why doesn't Amtrak check passports at the point of departure? I understand that not everyone on the train is going to Canada, but for the people who are, wouldn't it make more sense to check passports before boarding, rather than on the train?

They do in New York Penn, but that's all. Regardless, on every Adirondack trip I have taken, CBSA has pulled a couple of people off in my car, and they got on in NYC. They also spend 50% of their time on 5% of the people for the 90 minutes they typically take.