Rocky Mountaineer discussion

[jiml]

I'll never give a penny to Rocky Mountaineer since they stiffed almost all their customers at the beginning of covid. I don't remember the exact details, but apparently instead of giving refunds they just sent people vouchers good for a year, and wished them luck. I don't know if they extended the vouchers when the pandemic continued on. They said IIRC that they simply didn't have the funds to issue refunds.
To me, if you buy a service, and they don't deliver the service, you should get your money back. They never declared bankruptcy, they just said Canadian law allowed them to hold your money forever.

Unfortunately they weren't the only one who acted in a similar manner. Only the transportation services that took government money during the pandemic gave refunds. I had a stack of airline vouchers that I managed to finally use. RM would have been that much more difficult to redeem from several perspectives.

 

[Brian Battuello]

I don't mind the concept of deposits, it is only fair to place some earnest money to protect an asset that is wasted if unused. However, I've never understood why companies are allowed to put deposits into general cash and spend them for operating expenses. You'd think any decent accounting system would require the funds to be set aside until earned by delivering the service. Saying "Oops, we don't have your money anymore" just doesn't sound right. Even in bankruptcy, the deposits should be available to repay customers.

 

[Gp30sieb]

That would go against their business model of all-daylight sightseeing, wouldn’t it?
On the Canadian, you might miss from 8-15 hours of scenery, depending on the season overnight…

While on VIA Canadian I was in my bed with a full moon going through the canyons knowing I was missing a treat. That is why the next summer I chose the Rocky Mountaineer and saw the great sights I had missed the year before.

 

[Gp30sieb]

Incidentally, apparently the Rocky Mountaineer that operates in the US is a single level train and has none of the fancy bilevel stuff present in the Canadian Rocky Mountaineer.

I rode the Rocky Mountaineer Moab to Denver and return a few days later late August/early September. They are single level cars with big wrap around windows and no porches. They do however, unlike Amtrak on mostly the same route, allow for open Dutch doors (top only obviously) in the vestibule. Great food and commentary along the way. I could have done without all of the "Colorado salutes" from the idiots on the river, but you can't lay that one on RM. I assume they salute California zephyr as well, but since I rode CZ in February mooning was less of an option.

 

[Brian Battuello]

I assume they salute California zephyr as well, but since I rode CZ in February mooning was less of an option.

You ASSume correctly.

 

[cirdan]

I don't mind the concept of deposits, it is only fair to place some earnest money to protect an asset that is wasted if unused. However, I've never understood why companies are allowed to put deposits into general cash and spend them for operating expenses. You'd think any decent accounting system would require the funds to be set aside until earned by delivering the service. Saying "Oops, we don't have your money anymore" just doesn't sound right. Even in bankruptcy, the deposits should be available to repay customers.

Unfortuantely that's not how many companies think.

The most important thing for many companies is working capital. Money that is available to buy inventory and do things on a day to day basis. This is the reason many trading companies reduce their inventory to the absolute minimum as it is better to sit on money than to sit on stock.

This is also the reason many companies such as airlines offer early bird fares at a huge discount. They'd rather have a little bit of your money to spend now than a lot of it later.

Borrowing money from the bank also costs money, and it often works out cheaper to "borrow" it from customers, even if that means giving the customer a sizeable discount.

The risk is of course that if things go wrong, the money is gone and cannot be recovered.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

While on VIA Canadian I was in my bed with a full moon going through the canyons knowing I was missing a treat. That is why the next summer I chose the Rocky Mountaineer and saw the great sights I had missed the year before.

This summer I rode the Canadian from Vancouver to Edmonton and while passing through the canyons from my seat in the coach dome car I was thinking "people pay 10x the price for the same view on the Mountaineer!" - of course I did have to "pay" by sleeping in my coach seat.. but it was worth it! haha.

 

[tgstubbs1]

"people pay 10x the price for the same view on the Mountaineer!" - of course I did have to "pay" by sleeping in my coach seat.. but it was worth it! haha.

How does the coach in VIA compare with coach in Amtrak?

 

[Brian Battuello]

To be grudgingly fair to the Mountaineer, it uses the more scenic original CP track, with the historic spiral tunnels and other attractions, and their daylight only schedule optimizes viewing time. But still plenty of scenery on VIA's CN route.

 

[Bob Dylan]

How does the coach in VIA compare with coach in Amtrak?

VIA still gives you a Pillow and Blanket in Coach, you have your own Dome Car and Cafe, and there is plenty of Leg Room.

The seats are comparable to those on an Amfleet II Coach.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

VIA still gives you a Pillow and Blanket in Coach, you have your own Dome Car and Cafe, and there is plenty of Leg Room.

The seats are comparable to those on an Amfleet II Coach.

No pillow and blanket anymore sadly. - The refurbished coach I was in was a tiny bit more comfortable than an Amfleet with similar seat pitch and recline. Since unlike Amtrak, VIA Rail seated passengers in both available coaches, despite the coaches not being 100% sold out, I had 2 seats for myself as did all solo passengers. (We've all seen Amtrak close off empty coaches.. so big win for VIA here).

Access to the Dome Car is the big win... and for railfans like me, the coach dome car is preferred since it's only a few cars behind the locomotive so you can easily see the signals drop which is always fun.

There is no access to the full dining car for meals and the Cafe service for Coach passengers is VERY limited and way less options than Amtrak has. Also.. the poor guy is literally operating out of a closet - not good for him or the passengers but hey he was friendly! He even took my American money when the credit card machine wasn't working.

To be grudgingly fair to the Mountaineer, it uses the more scenic original CP track, with the historic spiral tunnels and other attractions, and their daylight only schedule optimizes viewing time. But still plenty of scenery on VIA's CN route.

My understanding is they operate different routes. While some of the routes use the CP through the spiral tunnels, some of the routes are the exact same as the Canadian route. Is that correct?

 

[Bob Dylan]

No pillow and blanket anymore sadly. - The refurbished coach I was in was a tiny bit more comfortable than an Amfleet with similar seat pitch and recline. Since unlike Amtrak, VIA Rail seated passengers in both available coaches, despite the coaches not being 100% sold out, I had 2 seats for myself as did all solo passengers. (We've all seen Amtrak close off empty coaches.. so big win for VIA here).

Access to the Dome Car is the big win... and for railfans like me, the coach dome car is preferred since it's only a few cars behind the locomotive so you can easily see the signals drop which is always fun.

There is no access to the full dining car for meals and the Cafe service for Coach passengers is VERY limited and way less options than Amtrak has. Also.. the poor guy is literally operating out of a closet - not good for him or the passengers but hey he was friendly! He even took my American money when the credit card machine wasn't working.


My understanding is they operate different routes. While some of the routes use the CP through the spiral tunnels, some of the routes are the exact same as the Canadian route. Is that correct?

Sorry to hear that the Pillows and Blankets are no longer provided!

 

[jiml]

My understanding is they operate different routes. While some of the routes use the CP through the spiral tunnels, some of the routes are the exact same as the Canadian route. Is that correct?

The Jasper route is almost identical.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The Jasper route is almost identical.

That's what I was thinking. I'd love to ride the other routes both to experience the Mountaineer train itself, and to get the rare mileage and see the scenery. Triple win except for the price. One day!

I would recommend anyone who is on a budget to think about taking the Canadian roundtrip from Vancouver to Edmonton in either coach or look for a deal on a section. It's such a great experience. If you take it round trip your chances of getting in the majority of scenery are pretty good.

 

[TaseMeBro]

I just returned home (literally, a few hours ago), from taking the US route of the Rocky Mountaineer, the Rockies to Red Rocks, eastbound from Moab to Denver.

I don't have the depth of knowledge about financial considerations and railroad operations as many of the others in this thread, and can't really speak on some of the issues above with any use.

That aside, it was an absolutely phenomenal experience.

I went with my mom, who is on the older side, and very seldom travels.

We flew into Moab (into CNY, Canyonlands Airport), after connecting through Denver. If you've been to Moab, you'll know there a number of hotels in town, and Rocky Mountaineer coordinates with two of them, the Hilton Hoodoo/Curio Collection, and the Hyatt Place. We elected to stay at the Hyatt Place, which, while not quite as top-tier luxury as the Hoodoo, was very nice on it's own, with a comfortable lobby, nice pool area, and very comprehensive continental breakfast.

The Rocky Mountaineer staff coordinate *everything*. On the day of departure, the train doesn't leave until about 1:30PM. That day, we booked a 3.5 hour bus tour of Arches Nat'l Park, alongside the RM booking. (The park bus tour was also exceptional). We left the hotel for the bus tour, and dropped our bags for storage with the front desk.

After our park tour, we were dropped off at the hotel (we chose to be dropped at the Hoodoo just to check it out). They had a large reception set in a banquet room, with cookies, drinks, staff to answer questions, etc. When it came time to depart two buses took us to a siding about 10 minutes outside of town.

After the first day of rail travel, before disembarking from the train, we were given our room keys, and we simply walked to our rooms to find the bags already there and waiting. The following morning, again, you simply walk out of the hotel, leaving your bags in the room, and they're picked up and delivered to your final destination by staff.

After the first day of travel, you'll arrive in Glenwood Springs, CO, where RM will put you up in one of two hotels. We were given two rooms in the Hotel Colorado, a historic hotel about a 5 minute walk from the Glenwood Springs station.

While we went into town for coffee in the morning, they set up a small reception at the train station with coffee, tea, and hot chocolate before boarding.

As for the rail trip itself, I honestly couldn't have asked for more.

The train was sparkling clean - the exterior, the seats, the restrooms, the bar, the windows, everything. And upon boarding the 2nd day, it had all been freshly cleaned overnight again.

The staff, again, was great. All smiles, happy to answer any question. Provided commentary and information throughout the route, but also allowed for periods of quiet to simply sit back and enjoy the views. Commentary topic was everything from geology and wildlife to rail and region history. Lots of information and history on the various tunnels you'll pass through.

The food was also great. We went in the "Silverleaf Plus", which I guess is the "First Class" for the RM routes in the US. (As mentioned above, they're single level cars, so dining is at your seat, which seems to be a notable differene from the Goldleaf offered on the Canadian Routes.)

You will be fed nonstop. I mean that. Multicourse breakfasts, lunches with desserts, constant snacks available at the lounge car bar. A beverage cart making constant passes. If I had one very minor quibble it might be that the meal menu was somewhat limited. I very much enjoyed it, but my mom, was is somewhat particular, occasionally wished for a few more options. For instance, on the first day, lunch choices were roast pork or a salmon salad as the only two options.

The seats are two by two, with sturdy tray talbes, electric outlets, and a wide aisle. Each car has a galley and two restrooms, and the "plus" cars have access to two lounge cars with player pianos, board games, and a staffed bar.


Our particular train ran pretty close to schedule, though they did mention that delays due to traffic will sometimes happen.

I've attached some photos below, but to be honest I was so busy with some of the best views I didn't even bother taking pictures.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

@TaseMeBro thank you so much for that wonderful review. It gives us a great idea of the service you get when traveling on the Mountaineer and it helps us to know why there is such a cost difference. That certainly sounds like a true first-class operation.

 

[TaseMeBro]

@TaseMeBro thank you so much for that wonderful review. It gives us a great idea of the service you get when traveling on the Mountaineer and it helps us to know why there is such a cost difference. That certainly sounds like a true first-class operation.

Sure, and I did take additional pictures, as well as brought home copies of the menu and guide as well, in case anyone has questions.

There's no doubt it's a big price disparity between doing the RM, and going by Amtrak. And indeed, most of the route is the same (the first about 90 minutes of the Eastbound, leaving Moab, is a different route).

I think it's a really subjective/values thing - if having that type of "fully catered" experience is worth the additional money to you. If I had gone on my own, I'd have taken Amtrak, but going with my mom, and wanting to show her a really top notch time, the RM was the right choice for us.

If the Amtrak quality, in terms of equipment and service level, is the right match for you, the other major consideration would be travel times. The RM is structured so you're only travelling during daylight hours, for the best views, wheras you might not have that opportunity on the Amtrak route.

One other note is that I mentioned the somewhat limited menu in my earlier comment. It's worth pointing out the RM can absolutely accomodate dietary restrictions - in fact they asked directly in an email, and had lots of options available. I was speaking simply in terms of "ordering off the menu", where there wasn't a lot of choice.

 

[jiml]

Looks like you may have just missed reviewer Simply Railway:

 

[TaseMeBro]

Looks like you may have just missed reviewer Simply Railway:

Thanks much for sharing that. Though I've watched Simply Railway videos before, for some reason I hadn't subscribed, and I now have.

He did such a great job capturing some of the views, especially on the "Western Half" (which was mostly the second day for him, and the first for my trip).

I spent a good chunk of time trying to compare the benefits/drawbacks of East vs West.. and I honestly think it's a wash. Maybe, and this is really splitting hairs, departing from Moab was just a bit easier, since all the bags were managed directly from the hotel, rather than taking them to Union Station in Denver.

What he called "Lemon Herb Chicken", their lunch on Day 1, was actually chicken prepared with a glaze of Colorado apricots - was super good.

I'm a bit jealous of the time he spent in the vestibules enjoying the fresh air and views. I kept meaning to do so, but kept getting distracted and in the end only spent a few minutes here or there.

I think he was completely right about late September/early October being the perfect time. Great weather, great colors from the trees, clear skies, not too hot. I'm not normally attuned to noticing or appreciating that stuff, and the fall colors of the trees were just right, even if the trees had done a bit of shedding between his trip and mine.

 

[BlackDiamond]

After watching that review I was tempted, although I suspect the price would put it in the category of things you would only do if it was on your bucket list.

SimplyRailway along with Doc7Austin are the 2 vloggers that I know of that make videos with no dialog (or annoying musical sound track) and instead just give you the train sounds, which is how I prefer it, although sometimes the captions can be heard to read depending on the background.

 

[Northwestern]

That ~$13K CAD is for 2 people.

VIA no longer uses the traditional rail fare + accommodation charge method Amtrak still uses. All fares are per person.

Sleeper Plus has a 50% single supplement to occupy a Cabin for 2 (Double Bedroom or Compartment). So had you wanted a Cabin for 2, it would have been ~$3300 CAD.

Prestige has a 100% single supplement. So that ~$13K CAD is for one or two passengers.

Just one more thing keeping me out of Prestige, not that it interests me. Off season in a Sleeper Plus roomette with full access to the Park Car and the same meals suits me just fine.

RM made a concerted behind the scenes lobbying effort to take over the Canadian a few years ago. A lot of people, including many VIA OBS crewmembers, were convinced they'd succeed (and were not happy about it). Happily, it didn't pan out and they appear to have stopped trying.

VIA's Prestige really is quite close to what you're describing. Large, well appointed staterooms, concierge service, free premium liquor, exclusive access to the Park Car (dome) during most of the day in peak season. Very high quality meals (although they share the diner with the Sleeper Plus hoi polloi).

I think Prestige is closer to $7K CAD per person Vancouver-Toronto now. While I would not pay it, I do think the product is there. Also, it is nearly 5 days onboard versus 2 days in a coach seat and a couple nights in the equivalent of a Holiday Inn (for Silver Leaf).

As to premium hotels, it doesn't sound like you've ever been to Kamloops. Even RM admits as much.

Just for fun, this morning on the VIA website, I asked about whether or not a Prestige Class booking, from Vancouver to Jasper, would be less than the cost of Prestige Class from Vancouver to Toronto. The reply said that I can't get Prestige for just Vancouver to Jasper. They did say it would work for Vancouver to Winnipeg. At the same time I checked the cost of a "cabin for 1". There were 2 choices, "cabin for 1" and "cabin for 1 discounted". What does "discounted" mean. Do you get a price break if you book for certain months, such as off-season months?

t

 

[joelkfla]

Just for fun, this morning on the VIA website, I asked about whether or not a Prestige Class booking, from Vancouver to Jasper, would be less than the cost of Prestige Class from Vancouver to Toronto. The reply said that I can't get Prestige for just Vancouver to Jasper. They did say it would work for Vancouver to Winnipeg. At the same time I checked the cost of a "cabin for 1". There were 2 choices, "cabin for 1" and "cabin for 1 discounted". What does "discounted" mean. Do you get a price break if you book for certain months, such as off-season months?

I'm assuming you messed up your quotes, and that the above paragraph was your question. Anyhow, this reply will probably be moved to the VIA Canadian thread, but I'll answer anyway.

The only difference between a "discounted" sleeper plus fare and the regular fare is that there are a limited number available and there is a fee for cancellations. It's similar to Amtrak's coach Saver Fare.

Sleeper plus fares overall are lower during the winter, as can be seen here:
https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-o...nto-vancouver-canadian/compare-fares-by-class
In addition, when sleeper space remains unsold, it can sometimes be gotten at approximately half price starting a few weeks before the departure date. At this time, it appears only berth space is available, but that could change as we get into winter. Cabins for 1 are rare at this rate. Current availability can be viewed here:
https://www.viarail.ca/en/offers/sleeper-plus-class-deals/
VIA Rail also offers a small CAA/AAA discount. I believe it applies to "discounted" sleeper plus fares, but I don't know whether it does for the half-price "deals."
https://www.viarail.ca/en/offers/caa

 

[Northwestern]

I am wondering what the difference traveling by the RM verses driving by car from Banff to Jasper?

I drove Canadian national Parkway from Banff (which was way too touristy for me) but the drive by car from Banff to Jasper was such a fabulous experience for me where I was continuously in a valley where is snow covered mountains, close to me on both the right side and the left side and in front of me.

I drove it straight but stopping for many vistas, however, my cousin who is also of retirement age, also did the same trip on the parkway Banff to Jasper it with her husband and selected several campsites to utilize overnight, making it an experience that was stretched over several days whereas my driving time was more like five or six hours having stopped at various vistas.

The final surprise of beauty was when I arrived in Jasper … the Rocky Mountaineer had just arrived, and passengers were being bus or walking to their hotel for the night. I was somewhat dumbfounded, because I knew about this and here I am in front of it without having spent a dime on the trip.
View attachment 33988

It must’ve been fabulous traveling by train. But a passenger could’ve very easily walked a fairly short distance on backpack and rolled out a tent and sleeping bag for a unbelievable night in Jasper like my cousin.

It cost $16 CAD (day pass) for the day of driving on the Canadian Parkway - simply display your receipt on your dashboard. When I arrived in Jasper and saw the rocky mountaineer, I figured it doesn’t get better than this, so I stopped off at a 7-Eleven instead of an eatery and grabbed a bite and headed back to The Canadian Parkway and saw a fabulous sunset that lasted for more than my moneys worth.

My $16 day pass became a two for one!

View attachment 33990
Sunset south of Jasper

*************************************

Banff has become very touristy and no longer a quaint little village, compared to my first visit to Banff in the early 1980's.

My first trip on the Rocky Mountaineer was from Vancouver to Jasper. That was a fantastic experience, especially the overnight at the Jasper Lake Lodge. It's now part of the Fairmont chain and some say the quality of the lodge has somewhat diminished.

After the overnight in Jasper, we rented a car and drove down to Banff via the Ice Field Parkway road. That is a must for all the incredible sights along the way. I recommend, especially, Athabasca Falls and Peyto Lake among others.

My last trip to Jasper was on the Canadian. I stayed in downtown Jasper (the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge is part of the RM package and very expensive otherwise). I wasn't too thrilled with the motel choices in downtown Jasper. The nearby restaurant for dinner. also, wasn't all that great. Jasper is very touristy, but fun the first time if you have never visited Jasper. Any recommendations for lodging in downtown Jasper and nearby restaurants?

Peyto Lake

 

[Rambling Robert]

My cousin told me about the Icefields Parkway and when she drove it, they took about a week because they camped at several spots and hiked mountains all week long. I don’t know how much it cost to camp there but the day pass for driving was $16 CAD. Which, of course includes stopping at many Vistas.

Along the parkway there are a couple of restaurants, but they’re more like cafeterias that sell hamburgers for $25 CAD. The Lodge at Icefields iis gorgeous and also has a restaurant for people just driving by

June 16, 2022 7:50PM

Earlier in this thread I posted a couple pictures and the one above here (by Northwestern) is beautiful and the several hour drive time on icefield Parkway. It is just as beautifulcontinuously in Ba valley of mountains on both your right side and your left side as your drive.