Rutland wye

[dan]

Why do trains stopping at Rutland have engines at both ends when there is a wye there?

 

[fdaley]

I suspect using the wye, which is somewhere east of the station, would be a lot more time consuming than simply reversing direction to go back west to Center Rutland, where the line from Burlington meets the line from Whitehall, NY.

 

[jis]

I suspect using the wye, which is somewhere east of the station, would be a lot more time consuming than simply reversing direction to go back west to Center Rutland, where the line from Burlington meets the line from Whitehall, NY.

Also it would block multiple city streets for some period of time in addition to slowing down the schedule by 15-20 minutes.

This will of course become a non issue with the advent of the Airos.

 

[Palmland]

Why is the wye necessary since the train continues on to Burlington?

 

[jis]

Why is the wye necessary since the train continues on to Burlington?

The train arrives into Rutland facing East from Whitehall, and it departs facing West towards Burlington turning Northwards branching off from the line on which it arrived from Whitehall. That is just the way the track layout is at Rutland.

The Wye is some distance further East/South past the Rutland station, which will add around 15 mins to the already slow schedule if it is used instead of running the train with loco at both ends or loco at one end and cab car at the other end.

 

[fdaley]

Why is the wye necessary since the train continues on to Burlington?

The station in downtown Rutland is a couple miles east of the junction where the line from Whitehall NY and points south meets the line going north to Burlington. Also, there is no way at that junction, in Center Rutland, to proceed from Whitehall toward Burlington without reversing direction. So the Ethan Allen runs in one direction from New York to Rutland and then reverses direction to proceed from Rutland back to Center Rutland and north to Burlington. Hence the locomotives on each end of the train.

 

[Palmland]

Thanks @jis @fdaley. Definitely a train we need to ride. While this is not ideal, I suspect no one heading north is in a real hurry.

 

[Roomette11]

Two Ethan Allen questions:
Speaking of track layouts, I believe the junction in Whitehall, NY is south of the Whitehall station used by the Adirondack. So the Ethan Allen runs through the town of Whitehall without stopping. With a locomotive on each end of the EA, could they begin stopping in Whitehall?

Has Vermont (since they fund the train, I think) ever considered rerouting the train via Manchester and Bennington? Such a move would serve more of the state that pays for the train. (I know the track would need some work. Last time I saw it in Arlington or Manchester, I think it was stick rail, but not in terrible shape.)

 

[fdaley]

Two Ethan Allen questions:
Speaking of track layouts, I believe the junction in Whitehall, NY is south of the Whitehall station used by the Adirondack. So the Ethan Allen runs through the town of Whitehall without stopping. With a locomotive on each end of the EA, could they begin stopping in Whitehall?

Has Vermont (since they fund the train, I think) ever considered rerouting the train via Manchester and Bennington? Such a move would serve more of the state that pays for the train. (I know the track would need some work. Last time I saw it in Arlington or Manchester, I think it was stick rail, but not in terrible shape.)

You are exactly correct about the track layout at Whitehall. So yes, it would be possible to reverse up the mainline into the station. But I'm guessing that Vermont, which is footing the bill for the service, would be less than keen on adding a potentially time-consuming maneuver to serve a station in New York that would add few riders. The station in Castleton, Vt., is only about 15-20 minutes from Whitehall, and the Fort Edward station is about 25 minutes' drive to the south.

And yes, there has been a lot of discussion over the past 10-15 years about providing rail service to Manchester. Vermont actually spent some money about 15 years ago to upgrade the track between Manchester and Hoosick Junction, NY, supposedly in part to prepare for future passenger service (though there also were freight rail benefits). There was a lot of local support for the idea in southwestern Vermont, and there was a bi-state study 10 years ago that showed strong potential ridership. But Vermont transportation officials backed away from the idea and instead supported development of a new Thruway bus service between Manchester and Albany-Rensselaer. There are a couple of daily frequencies each way for this service in Amtrak's reservation system.

Although the track up to Manchester is in good shape, the line from there to Rutland is really rough, with a lot of 10 mph running, so a major capital expenditure would be needed to reroute the Ethan Allen as a through train on that route. Also, the route from Hoosick Junction to the Empire Corridor is rather circuitous, requiring a jog west to Schenectady and then back to Albany. The historical direct route through Troy was abandoned in the 1970s.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Why do trains stopping at Rutland have engines at both ends when there is a wye there?

What is the turn around time to head back?

 

[jis]

What is the turn around time to head back?

I have seen figures that suggest that using the Wye would add 20-30 mins to the schedule given the low speed limits on the trackage to and from the Wye which is some distance from the station away from the direction one goes to both Whitehall and Burlington.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I have seen figures that suggest that using the Wye would add 20-30 mins to the schedule given the low speed limits on the trackage to and from the Wye which is some distance from the station away from the direction one goes to both Whitehall and Burlington.

The Piedmonts run with engines or control units to avoid using a wye and it helps. The 20-30 minutes you mention may be less than the turn around time but if the train arrives late there may not be cleaning time or even getting the train moving again without the next run being late.

 

[jis]

The Piedmonts run with engines or control units to avoid using a wye and it helps. The 20-30 minutes you mention may be less than the turn around time but if the train arrives late there may not be cleaning time or even getting the train moving again without the next run being late.

We are discussing Ethan Allen at Rutland which is an en route reversal of direction and not turning at the end of a trip for a subsequent trip.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

We are discussing Ethan Allen at Rutland which is an en route reversal of direction and not turning at the end of a trip for a subsequent trip.

Thanks for t clarifying. Time to pull up Google earth and check this our.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I haven't been on the Ethan Allen but I seem to recall back when the Vermonter used to reverse at Palmer it took about 15 or 20 minutes as they had to do a brake test after moving to the other engine. The move also involved the conductor having to manually throw switches which took time.

 

[fdaley]

I haven't been on the Ethan Allen but I seem to recall back when the Vermonter used to reverse at Palmer it took about 15 or 20 minutes as they had to do a brake test after moving to the other engine. The move also involved the conductor having to manually throw switches which took time.

At least at Rutland, the engine crew can move while the train is in the station and passengers are boarding and detraining. They seem to be accomplishing the task in more like 5-10 minutes. Unlike at Palmer, they are not moving from one railroad to another, and there's no hand-thrown switch.

 

[jis]

I haven't been on the Ethan Allen but I seem to recall back when the Vermonter used to reverse at Palmer it took about 15 or 20 minutes as they had to do a brake test after moving to the other engine. The move also involved the conductor having to manually throw switches which took time.

You have to do all of that plus go to the Wye and back. The additional Wye time is over and above the standard brake test for reversal, and BTW, the Wye involves two reversals, and a couple of hand thrown switches, and blocking two or three city streets for a while.

 

[edwardjtracey]

I haven't been on the Ethan Allen but I seem to recall back when the Vermonter used to reverse at Palmer it took about 15 or 20 minutes as they had to do a brake test after moving to the other engine. The move also involved the conductor having to manually throw switches which took time.

The ending of the Palmer Shuffle ..... has been a most welcome development!