Safety and environmental issues with Amtrak's Flex Dining concept

[MARC Rider]

When I was coaching Empire State Games Ice Hockey, I remember we were dormed and fed at a different University than most of the other teams and athletes because of the rink location. Sodexo was trying to make a name for themselves in college food service (they had merged with Marriott Food Service to become a major presence in the US and were gradually taking over and phasing out the Marriott name) our athletes and coaches has great food, the majority of the teams at the main university hosting about 80% had very limited institutional offerings. Not a lot of meal plan and dorm action at most schools over the summer, but those Sodexo folks really went all out for us. Games ran late one day and we returned after the contracted hours, the dining hall manager said "don't worry, I'll ask some staff to stay and make sure we get it right" Most summers, the schools we were at would have thrown some slop on a table and gone home.

Sodexo catered the college my daughter attended. I think they had the worst food of all of the colleges she applied to. Unfortunately for her palate, that college had the best academics for her, so that's where she went. Spent 4 years complaining about the food, and when we visited and sampled it, we had to agree. She managed to get along after she discovered a Sheetz and a fancy coffee place near campus. She also had a hotplate and a mini-refrigerator in her dorm room. To be fair, Sodexo put on a reception for the graduating seniors and parents that had pretty decent finger food.

I believe these catering companies can serve up food at a wide range of quality levels, but you get what you pay for. It's possible that the administration at my daughter's college picked the low-cost option.

The college I attended (class of 1976) was catered by ARA services (don't know who owns them now), and the food was pretty good, but I lived off-campus for about half of my time there and thus did my own cooking.

 

[railiner]

Yeah....I could see it now...arrive on the Cardinal at White Sulphur Springs, and the courtesy limo whisks me over to the Greenbrier for a gourmet five course meal... https://www.greenbrier.com/Greenbri...nts/FB-20-MDR-Dinner_Menu-Summer-Fall2020.pdf

What's that you say? The train? Oh, they'll wait for me....for sure!

 

[PVD]

That's sort of the point, it is less a function of which company is providing the service as it is for an organization to contract for a decent level of service and see to it that the contractor complies. Pretty sure ARA is the core predecessor of ARAMARK.

 

[the_traveler]

The EPA, as we knew it, doesn't exist in the current administration.

Neither does the CDC. They may issue “recommendations”, but the Administration says “Do as they say, or do as I say.”

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I had Aramark at work for several years and agree that part of the issue is how much the client is willing to pay, but another important component is how the contract is worded and what level of expectation is set. When first outsourced they put on a big spread with fresh snacks and cookies that honestly tasted really good. It was a big improvement over the previous setup and most folks seemed to appreciate it. The food wasn't free but it was dirt cheap relative to a typical salary, you could make special requests without paying extra and the staff were friendly and accommodating. Nobody ever snapped, shouted, or gave you a stink eye. If Amtrak was anything like that experience I honestly would have nothing to complain about.

 

[PVD]

I was on 2 separate projects where Aramark handled food service, but 2 separate divisions. The second one was employee food service for a very large corporate hq complex, they had a very large subsidized operation for a few thousand employees, and a special dining room for the most senior executives. My group had a dispensation to use their facilities although we were outside service contract employees (6 on full-time telecom service) albeit full time. I echo your sentiments completely. Once a month they brought in a "guest chef" to do a demo of a style of cooking or a new product...(the only one I remember is Paul Wenner, of Gardenburger fame). Before I was there, I spent 11 years (same contractor) running telecom services for a large healthcare and hospital group, Aramark was the food service management. I used to see trailer loads of top shelf food brought in, and I always wondered if there was a magic room where a team of scientists ran experiments on how to remove all flavor from food.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Yeah....I could see it now...arrive on the Cardinal at White Sulphur Springs, and the courtesy limo whisks me over to the Greenbrier for a gourmet five course meal... https://www.greenbrier.com/Greenbri...nts/FB-20-MDR-Dinner_Menu-Summer-Fall2020.pdf

What's that you say? The train? Oh, they'll wait for me....for sure!

Don't laugh! That menu looks like the fare they used to serve on the 20th Century Limited!

 

[20th Century Rider]

Neither does the CDC. They may issue “recommendations”, but the Administration says “Do as they say, or do as I say.”

Or... they do as he says!

 

[Qapla]

Silver Star SB - Washington, Jacksonville, Orlando; NB Orlando, Cary, Washington
Silver Meteor - SB Jacksonville, Orlando; NB Orlando, Jacksonville, Washington

I'm not sure where they could do this in Jacksonville. There are not any food service outlets near the Jacksonville station. There is not any place available for building anything that such food service outlets could use, there is no room to put anything inside the station (the building is not that big) and there is nowhere to watch the trains

 

[MARC Rider]

The deterioration of food service on Amtrak has brought much discussion regarding disappointment. However other more serious issues have surfaced regarding food safety and health; as well as recycling of food product waste. Here is a repost from earlier today. How do others on this forum feel about this???

While the 'Flex Dining' food product itself may be edible for occasional intake in a critical situation, there are three reasons why it is not recommended for human consumption. The first two involve health risk, the last is environmental. I hope Amtrak management is watching our forum and will rethink its responsibilities to both safety and the environment.

1] Carcinogenic and toxic properties of Polyethylene Terephthalate plate when heated.*
2] Sodium at unhealthy level.
3] Food and container waste is not recycled or reused.

* If you will be 'Flex Dining' your food will be heated in the plastic dish. Turn it over and you will see the designation as '1' in the triangular recycling stamp required by law. You owe it to yourself to check this out:

www.madesafe.org
#ChemicalCallout: Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET or PETE)
Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET or PETE) does not readily break down in the environment and it may pose some toxicity risks.
www.madesafe.org www.madesafe.org

Look, I know the flex dining food is not of good quality, but this attempt to demonize it is a little off the wall.

1) PET may be a pontential toxic problem. Think about that every time you drink a Coke from a plastic bottle. Also, it's apparently very common in synthetic fibers, so you might have it in intimate contact with your skin for hours on end every day. The occasional Flex meal might not really make much of a difference to your health. I couldn't find in a quick search exactly how much toxic leachate from PET you would have to consume in order to develop medical problems, but I suspect that even if you were a regular passenger on Amtrak eating the stuff, it probably won't affect you. Well, maybe if you did nothing but take LD train rides in sleeper 365 days a year for 20 years or something, it might.

2) Sodium at unhealthy level. That's probably true for everything served by the food service industry, and probably a lot of stuff that people cook themselves. Traditional Amtrak dining was probably no better in this regard than the Flex meals.

3) Food and container waste is not recycled or reused. The same was true for traditional Amtrak dining, and is more or less true in my own personal kitchen. (I mean, I recycle some, but not the garbage, and not the takeout containers.)

Flex dining could be a perfectly good way for Amtrak to provide low-cost (to them) premium service. Premium service (i.e., the sleepers) is of value to Amtrak only in that it cross-subsidizes the coach service. This provides the relatively short-distance trips that make up most of the passenger load of even the long distance trains and are the basis of the utility of the trains and the justification for taxpayer support of the trains. But Amtrak can't get the desired cross-subsidy if the cost of providing food service is too high. This, it's perfectly reasonable for them to try to provide food service at as low a cost to Amtrak as possible. After all, Amtrak's mission is to provide passenger rail service, not provide a gourmet dining experience.

I agree the the current flex dining food is not of adequate quality. There is a danger that the lousy food will result in reduced revenues from premium service. They're also leaving money on the table by not making the meals available to the coach passengers. It's probably possible to make flex dining meals more palatable than the current ones. It's probably impossible for them to be able to accommodate everybody's special diets (but I was impressed at Penny's account of how they accommodated her needs.) Nonetheless, there is a definite tradeoff between whether food is palatable or healthy. For the relatively low percentage of the meals I eat on passenger trains, I'd prefer palatable.

What we should be demanding of Amtrak is not that they restore some sort of fantasyland revival of the golden age of railroading for the rich passengers, but that (1) they need to provide honest accounting of how much food service really costs, and (2) better quality and more menu variety of the meals being served. We should be demanding of Congress that they repeal the "Mica amendment," thus letting Amtrak not worry about whether their meal service is a strict profit or loss center. But for goodness sake , some the pictures of the "good old days," or menus from fancy restaurants being displayed as some sort of aspirational goal for Amtrak food service is nonsense. Those days are long gone and never coming back.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Traditional Amtrak dining was probably no better in this regard than the Flex meals.

Traditional Amtrak dining had options that you could choose that were much healthier. It varied from menu to menu, but the entree side salads with fruit were quite good and healthy... baked potatoes, steamed veggies, etc.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Look, I know the flex dining food is not of good quality, but this attempt to demonize it is a little off the wall.

1) PET may be a pontential toxic problem. Think about that every time you drink a Coke from a plastic bottle. Also, it's apparently very common in synthetic fibers, so you might have it in intimate contact with your skin for hours on end every day. The occasional Flex meal might not really make much of a difference to your health. I couldn't find in a quick search exactly how much toxic leachate from PET you would have to consume in order to develop medical problems, but I suspect that even if you were a regular passenger on Amtrak eating the stuff, it probably won't affect you. Well, maybe if you did nothing but take LD train rides in sleeper 365 days a year for 20 years or something, it might.

2) Sodium at unhealthy level. That's probably true for everything served by the food service industry, and probably a lot of stuff that people cook themselves. Traditional Amtrak dining was probably no better in this regard than the Flex meals.

3) Food and container waste is not recycled or reused. The same was true for traditional Amtrak dining, and is more or less true in my own personal kitchen. (I mean, I recycle some, but not the garbage, and not the takeout containers.)

Flex dining could be a perfectly good way for Amtrak to provide low-cost (to them) premium service. Premium service (i.e., the sleepers) is of value to Amtrak only in that it cross-subsidizes the coach service. This provides the relatively short-distance trips that make up most of the passenger load of even the long distance trains and are the basis of the utility of the trains and the justification for taxpayer support of the trains. But Amtrak can't get the desired cross-subsidy if the cost of providing food service is too high. This, it's perfectly reasonable for them to try to provide food service at as low a cost to Amtrak as possible. After all, Amtrak's mission is to provide passenger rail service, not provide a gourmet dining experience.

I agree the the current flex dining food is not of adequate quality. There is a danger that the lousy food will result in reduced revenues from premium service. They're also leaving money on the table by not making the meals available to the coach passengers. It's probably possible to make flex dining meals more palatable than the current ones. It's probably impossible for them to be able to accommodate everybody's special diets (but I was impressed at Penny's account of how they accommodated her needs.) Nonetheless, there is a definite tradeoff between whether food is palatable or healthy. For the relatively low percentage of the meals I eat on passenger trains, I'd prefer palatable.

What we should be demanding of Amtrak is not that they restore some sort of fantasyland revival of the golden age of railroading for the rich passengers, but that (1) they need to provide honest accounting of how much food service really costs, and (2) better quality and more menu variety of the meals being served. We should be demanding of Congress that they repeal the "Mica amendment," thus letting Amtrak not worry about whether their meal service is a strict profit or loss center. But for goodness sake , some the pictures of the "good old days," or menus from fancy restaurants being displayed as some sort of aspirational goal for Amtrak food service is nonsense. Those days are long gone and never coming back.

By analyzing all points of view it makes us all stronger in the quality of our conversations. You said many things I totally agree with… and some in which my point of view varies.

1] The issue with the plastic containers is the heating. Heating causes release of gasses and materials that have been proven to be extremely toxic… this is well documented by the American Medical Association and other health watch groups. Heating the meals in plastic must be stopped to protect the public from carcinogenic danger. We must stop heating food in Polyethylene Terephthalate plates.

2] Reusable ceramics would eliminate much waste. Did you know that the plastics crisis is so severe that plastics are found inside of fish caught… even fruits and vegetables for human consumption? Plastics in the environment are carcinogenic and dangerous… the environmental crisis is very real. We all must focus on the importance of 'Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.'

3] Extreme amounts of sodium may not be harmful on an occasional basis, but three meals a day with such high amounts are… especially dangerous for those with diabetes and high blood pressure. The same can be said for sugar and fat content. As others on the forum have stated, food service companies will produce the meals as per the instructions of the purchaser. Institutions such as colleges and entertainment venues that choose to provide a higher quality of food take into consideration healthier ingredients.

I did agree with much of what you said in your last paragraph, but nostalgic pictures and memories that inspire do not deserve such a heavy hand. They are part of the American heritage are not presented as an out of reach aspiration for Amtrak… but as point of reference. Many of us on this forum are not not ‘rich passengers’ as you refer to… we’re just everyday folks who enjoy the thrill of rail travel… including in first class.

Let us all be open minded and look for the positives in our peers as we present ideas to support passenger rail travel.

 

[Exvalley]

There is a LOT of valid criticism of Flexible Dining, Hyperbolic criticism runs the risk of being counterproductive. The dioxins that you need to worry about don’t exist in food grade plastic. Even if they did you would need to heat the plastic up to 700 degrees for their release.
Source: Mixing Plastic and Food: An Urban Legend?

Our plastics are not dumped in the ocean. They are dumped in lined landfills. The plastic in the ocean is generally from Southeast Asia.
Source: Tackling Southeast Asia's plastic waste crisis

The nutritional concerns are quite valid. So is the quality, or rather, lack thereof.

Stick to winning arguments.

 

[20th Century Rider]

There is a LOT of valid criticism of Flexible Dining, Hyperbolic criticism runs the risk of being counterproductive. The dioxins that you need to worry about don’t exist in food grade plastic. Even if they did you would need to heat the plastic up to 700 degrees for their release.
Source: Mixing Plastic and Food: An Urban Legend?

Our plastics are not dumped in the ocean. They are dumped in lined landfills. The plastic in the ocean is generally from Southeast Asia.
Source: Tackling Southeast Asia's plastic waste crisis

The nutritional concerns are quite valid. So is the quality, or rather, lack thereof.

Stick to winning arguments.

You say hyperbolic criticism runs the risk of being counterproductive. Show me more. Why are these not justifiable arguments and tell me why this is Hyperbolic criticism? Hyperbolic criticism means exaggerated. Please explain how these concerning and troubling points are exaggerated and don't address concern for safety and well being of Amtrak travelers... What is exaggerated about these concerns?

1] The issue with the plastic containers is the heating. Heating causes release of gasses and materials that have been proven to be extremely toxic… this is well documented by the American Medical Association and other health watch groups. Heating the meals in plastic must be stopped to protect the public from carcinogenic danger. We must stop heating food in Polyethylene Terephthalate plates.

2] Reusable ceramics would eliminate much waste. Did you know that the plastics crisis is so severe that plastics are found inside of fish caught… even fruits and vegetables for human consumption? Plastics in the environment are carcinogenic and dangerous… the environmental crisis is very real. We all must focus on the importance of 'Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.'

3] Extreme amounts of sodium may not be harmful on an occasional basis, but three meals a day with such high amounts are… especially dangerous for those with diabetes and high blood pressure. The same can be said for sugar and fat content. As others on the forum have stated, food service companies will produce the meals as per the instructions of the purchaser. Institutions such as colleges and entertainment venues that choose to provide a higher quality of food take into consideration healthier ingredients.

Finally, explain and justify your solution to the food service problem.

 

[Exvalley]

Rather than reading the scientific evidence in the articles I linked to, you just hit “copy-paste.”

No point in discussing this further if you won’t take the time to listen. We want the same result but clearly have different opinions on how to get there. All the best.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Rather than reading the scientific evidence in the articles I linked to, you just hit “copy-paste.”

No point in discussing this further if you won’t take the time to listen. We want the same result but clearly have different opinions on how to get there. All the best.

I am listening... and that is why I took so much time and effort to detail my request for you point of view. Show me the scientific evidence you are talking about which disputes troubling issues... perhaps we all can learn something we don't realize... and if indeed eating food from a carcinogenic plastic container when heated is safe... and eating all that sodium on a 3 or four night trip across the country is not harmful, and if there is no actual waste or landfill concern, then so many people, including myself will breathe a sigh of relief. We are all taking the time to listen.

Please be direct and be real in your assertions. Document with reliable empirical studies the scientific evidence which disputes these concerns which you are saying are just 'copy pasted.'

a] the heating of Polyethylene Terephthalate that brings a danger of toxic carcinogens
b] this controversial issue of Amtrak discarding plastics into the environment without proper recycling protocols when the environment is in an elevated crisis
c] the profound damaging effects of cheaply produced meals containing unhealthy amounts of sodium, sugar, and fat eaten three times a day for the duration of a transcontinental trip... when it is possible to contract the food supplier for healthier meals. So, these are the concerns repeated. What is the solution?

1] The issue with the plastic containers is the heating. Heating causes release of gasses and materials that have been proven to be extremely toxic… this is well documented by the American Medical Association and other health watch groups. Heating the meals in plastic must be stopped to protect the public from carcinogenic danger. We must stop heating food in Polyethylene Terephthalate plates.

2] Reusable ceramics would eliminate much waste. Did you know that the plastics crisis is so severe that plastics are found inside of fish caught… even fruits and vegetables for human consumption? Plastics in the environment are carcinogenic and dangerous… the environmental crisis is very real. We all must focus on the importance of 'Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.'

3] Extreme amounts of sodium may not be harmful on an occasional basis, but three meals a day with such high amounts are… especially dangerous for those with diabetes and high blood pressure. The same can be said for sugar and fat content. As others on the forum have stated, food service companies will produce the meals as per the instructions of the purchaser. Institutions such as colleges and entertainment venues that choose to provide a higher quality of food take into consideration healthier ingredients.

With care and concern for our planet, our country, and our passenger rail system.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

What we should be demanding of Amtrak is not that they restore some sort of fantasyland revival of the golden age of railroading for the rich passengers,

I'm not asking for fantasyland I'm wanting this -- all photos I took within the last 5 years -

 

[Thirdrail7]

I'm still interested in knowing what makes this problem unique to the flexible dining program?

What makes this different from the Acela meal program and how is it different from the waste generated from items heated up in the cafe cars, prepared in the full-service dining cars, or from the items brought on board the trains without food service?

What makes this different from previous programs? Crescent-Zephyr mentioned the availability of salads, freshly baked potatoes, and the like but failed to mention how much waste these items generated while it was transported, stored, delivered, or when it wasn't consumed. This doesn't even include what was condemned in commissaries before it hit the trains or after it hit the trains and couldn't be reused. This not only increases waste, but it also increases loss...something that is supposed to END by a yet to be rescinded congressional mandate.

Most of those "cooked" meals on the train are actually heated up in the kitchen. The current nutritional value information on the remaining food that isn't part of the flexible dining program isn't that great either. While you were sure to pick the highest sodium content item for your post in the other thread (the Red Wine Braised Beef), it leaves out the fact some of the items in the flexible dining program are lower in sodium content than some of the items still available on the Auto Train, which isn't a part of the flexible dining program. Nothing about the sodium content in the Garlic Herb Cod, Mac and Cheese( which is listed and children's meal) or the Cubano bowl is particularly impressive, especially when you compare it to the Asian Noodle Bowl or the Creole Shrimp & Andouille.

Even the Acela used to serve Korean BBQ Glazed Salmon, which has a higher sodium content than the aforementioned Red Wine Braised Beef before giving up on hot foods.

It seems like three meals a day on any service not limited to the Kosher meal selection, in particular, may be unhealthful. They all generate waste but the difference but it is easier to see with flexible dining since passengers are basically bussing the tables themselves. Previously, the waste wasn't at the forefront, but it was very much present.

While you and others are pining for higher quality food, you still have ignored the yet to be rescinded congressional mandate that led to a lot of this. It was enacted in 2015. Let's refer to the relevant portion one more time(although you can read the entire reference here.

From:

SEC. 11207. FOOD AND BEVERAGE REFORM.

(a) AMENDMENT.—Chapter 243 of title 49, United States Code,

is further amended by adding at the end the following new section:

‘‘§ 24321. Food and beverage reform

<SNIP>

‘‘§ 24321. Food and beverage reform

‘‘(a) PLAN.—Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment

of the Passenger Rail Reform and Investment Act of 2015, Amtrak

shall develop and begin implementing a plan to eliminate, within

5 years of such date of enactment, the operating loss associated

with providing food and beverage service on board Amtrak trains.


‘‘(d) NO FEDERAL FUNDING FOR OPERATING LOSSES.—Beginning

on the date that is 5 years after the date of enactment of the

Passenger Rail Reform and Investment Act of 2015, no Federal

funds may be used to cover any operating loss associated with

providing food and beverage service on a route operated by Amtrak

or a rail carrier that operates a route in lieu of Amtrak pursuant

to section 24711.

It is 2020 and unless the language is changed (which is suggested in the new appropriation), the reality of the situation is more trains may follow the example of the Silver Star, which at one point, eliminated the dining car outright. You may also see cafe cars disappear as they have on most of the NEC trains, which (according to AmMath,) allegedly covered their costs.

How much people are willing to pay to preserve food is a personal matter but as I have stated, the problem (as described) is not specific to the Flexible Dining program. Sometimes, you just need a label, particularly when you don't like something.

 

[me_little_me]

‘‘§ 24321. Food and beverage reform

‘‘(a) PLAN.—Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment

of the Passenger Rail Reform and Investment Act of 2015, Amtrak

shall develop and begin implementing a plan to eliminate, within

5 years of such date of enactment, the operating loss associated

with providing food and beverage service on board Amtrak trains.


‘‘(d) NO FEDERAL FUNDING FOR OPERATING LOSSES.—Beginning

on the date that is 5 years after the date of enactment of the

Passenger Rail Reform and Investment Act of 2015, no Federal

funds may be used to cover any operating loss associated with

providing food and beverage service on a route operated by Amtrak

or a rail carrier that operates a route in lieu of Amtrak pursuant

to section 24711.

Actually that's pretty meaningless considering that it is up to Amtrak to decide what portion of the accommodation price is to be allocated to food and the cost of providing it. Amtrak also decides what portion of the accommodation is charged for the stations, crew, management, ticketing, use of the NEC, etc. which affects the portion of that price that can be allocated to food. If, in fact, the sleepers subsidize the coach prices, then a lower subsidy could mean more money allocated to sleeper service (including food). And if indeed, as some claim, LD trains are overcharged for their portion of non-direct costs, then that reduced subsidy can be made up by rightly charging LD trains.

I'm not saying all these "ifs" are true, but with Amtrak, a PUBLIC CORPORATION, hiding the costs and allocations from the OWNERS i.e. THE PUBLIC, one can only surmise that there is no way to tell if Amtrak is legitimately following the congressional mandate or is using it as an excuse to get rid of service it doesn't want and is violating its mandate to provide service to the public.

"Figures don't lie but liars can figure"

Citing the mandate to explain that garbage is what congress mandated does not hold water IMHO. Congress set a target. Amtrak can cook the books (if that is what they do) to claim they met that target any way they want.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It seems like three meals a day on any service not limited to the Kosher meal selection, in particular, may be unhealthful.

With the previous menus I had healthy choices.

the reality of the situation is more trains may follow the example of the Silver Star, which at one point, eliminated the dining car outright. You may also see cafe cars disappear as they have on most of the NEC trains, which (according to AmMath,) allegedly covered their costs.

I’d rather be able to choose from the normal cafe car menu than the current flex menu so that would be an improvement.

Why would Cafe cars that are covering their costs be taken out of service?

 

[Dakota 400]

I’d rather be able to choose from the normal cafe car menu than the current flex menu so that would be an improvement.

Why not offer a sleeping car guest the choice between a flex menu item or some items(s) from the cafe car menu?

 

[20th Century Rider]

Here's another idea for this discussion on the food dilemma...

The former LD complete meal service was highly enjoyed by sleeper passengers... they paid for it. Many of us probably ate much more than we otherwise normally would. Then came along the controversial flex meals... monotonous, unhealthy, and highly disliked... especially when they were replacing those angus burgers and steak dinner for the same cost.

Why can't Amtrak just eliminate the sleeper service flex meals and go to an expanded cafe car service that would include more healthy options; and in doing so, bring down the cost of those sleeping accommodations? It would allow the passenger greater choice to order the amount and quality of food desired. The could also choose to bring along their own items to eat.

Bottom line for the passenger... lower fares and food options that could fit with personal choice.
Bottom line for Amtrak... lower food service expenses with the cafe car paying for itself through whatever pricing is necessary.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

As much as I would like to see a return to the Chef Inspired meals at this point I'd probably settle for a selection of fresh fruit and cheese with warm/toasted breads in the morning and some fresh coffee. Big entree-sized salads with lots of flavorful toppings would be nice for lunch. I realize some folks can make do with almost anything but for me the dinner meal really suffers from a lack of cook-to-order options. This new era of reheated pantry foods is really uninspired and a waste of calories in my view.

 

[Exvalley]

Why can't Amtrak just eliminate the sleeper service flex meals and go to an expanded cafe car service that would include more healthy options; and in doing so, bring down the cost of those sleeping accommodations?

Be careful what you ask for if you ever want to see full dining service restored.

 

[Chey]

I'll be okay with whatever they serve because I'm not that concerned with what I eat at home, a lot of takeout that I eat, because either they don't post their ingredients, or because I don't believe them. I don't have Covid-19. And Jesus, for those of you who believe, doesn't have it either.

Sorry if this offends many of you, but I believe I'll die when my time comes and not before. I don't think Amtrak's menu is substantially worse than what I'm eating now. But you woke, please feel free to tell me I'm bound for Hell because you know better than me and everyone else.

I think, in spite of my love for rail travel, that I don't belong here and I will cancel my membership to avoid angering anyone further. I just can't take anymore woke BS.

Goodbye and God bless (for those of you this doesn't offend, for those of you it does please, delete). Thank you and goodbye.

Love,
Chey