Safety and environmental issues with Amtrak's Flex Dining concept

[Bob Dylan]

I'll be okay with whatever they serve because I'm not that concerned with what I eat at home, a lot of takeout that I eat, because either they don't post their ingredients, or because I don't believe them. I don't have Covid-19. And Jesus, for those of you who believe, doesn't have it either.

Sorry if this offends many of you, but I believe I'll die when my time comes and not before. I don't think Amtrak's menu is substantially worse than what I'm eating now. But you woke, please feel free to tell me I'm bound for Hell because you know better than me and everyone else.

I think, in spite of my love for rail travel, that I don't belong here and I will cancel my membership to avoid angering anyone further. I just can't take anymore woke BS.

Goodbye and God bless (for those of you this doesn't offend, for those of you it does please, delete). Thank you and goodbye.

Love,
Chey

Dont quit, Forums are for different points of view, dont take internet posts personally!!

We all share a Love of Train Travel! I see this on other Rail Forums too, and I dont agree with most of what's posted but:"Everyone has their own tastes said the Old Maid as she kissed the Cow!"

 

[Thirdrail7]

Why can't Amtrak just eliminate the sleeper service flex meals and go to an expanded cafe car service that would include more healthy options; and in doing so, bring down the cost of those sleeping accommodations? It would allow the passenger greater choice to order the amount and quality of food desired. The could also choose to bring along their own items to eat.

Umm...like they did with the aforementioned Silver Star, which was nicknamed the Silver Starvation? Here is the thread that related to that experiment;

Silver Star has new Café menu and no diner

This "test" lasted until earlier this year. I firmly believe other trains would have followed sit of not for the passengers lobbying Amtrak and their representatives to take action. After numerous complaints about this, they returned to the diner-lite concept on a few more train before introducing Contemporary Dining.

At any rate, complaints kept this concept from taking off even though it was headed for a few more trains.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

At any rate, complaints kept this concept from taking off even though it was headed for a few more trains.

So that means our complaints do make a difference correct?

 

[20th Century Rider]

Umm...like they did with the aforementioned Silver Star, which was nicknamed the Silver Starvation? Here is the thread that related to that experiment;

Silver Star has new Café menu and no diner

This "test" lasted until earlier this year. I firmly believe other trains would have followed sit of not for the passengers lobbying Amtrak and their representatives to take action. After numerous complaints about this, they returned to the diner-lite concept on a few more train before introducing Contemporary Dining.

At any rate, complaints kept this concept from taking off even though it was headed for a few more trains.

if I can remember through my aging mind, there was little difference in the fare between meal on this train and meals included on the other. That's why it didn't gain traction... and where are we now??? So flex meals vs non vs the full dining service. Now we are we now hmmm... where??? Pay more for 'full dining service' and get flex meals??? Huh?

 

[20th Century Rider]

Bet they were't "biodegradable" back then. The ones today "biodegrade" in my mouth after a few sips!

We were ahead of where we are now 'back in the day' when biodegradable was realized as important but greed and the quest for wealth has replaced more environmentally sound practices with cheep cheep that is bad for the earth but good for the wallet of those wanting to do anything at any expense to put money in that back pocket. Because plastics are cheeeeeper than recyclable chinaware, that's what Amtrak uses to cut costs. Oh my...

 

[me_little_me]

Why can't Amtrak just eliminate the sleeper service flex meals and go to an expanded cafe car service that would include more healthy options; and in doing so, bring down the cost of those sleeping accommodations? It would allow the passenger greater choice to order the amount and quality of food desired. The could also choose to bring along their own items to eat.

How much cheaper than the Meteor was the Star? Would that even exist if the passengers had no choice of traditional dining vs garbage and both had the same lower cost but "healthy and tasty" food? Would prices go down? NAH! They never go down.
And the way Amtrak runs cafes with so many items that run out or that don't get stocked, what would happen to sleeper passengers who tend to ride long distances if the "better" food was all scarped up by coach passengers? With food reserved for sleepers first (traditional) or only (garbage), there is more of an obligation since meals are promised and separate.
Amtrak has never even solved their basic cafe ood problems on LD trains such as running out or not loading items - both of which mean money left on the table - about as stupid as can be imagined when you are losing money.

Then of course, you might lose more of the sleeper passengers (and their subsidy to coach) and have even more of those passengers who don't want to fight the lines for food only to find out that what they want is sold out.

Given their history of (not) loading food, even for sleepers, I can't imagine how well they are going to be able to handle when they don't load the specific meal you pre-ordered 4 months earlier when you made your sleeper reservation.

 

[bms]

Umm...like they did with the aforementioned Silver Star, which was nicknamed the Silver Starvation? Here is the thread that related to that experiment;

This "test" lasted until earlier this year. I firmly believe other trains would have followed sit of not for the passengers lobbying Amtrak and their representatives to take action. After numerous complaints about this, they returned to the diner-lite concept on a few more train before introducing Contemporary Dining.

At any rate, complaints kept this concept from taking off even though it was headed for a few more trains.

I believe the Silver Star went straight from traditional dining to nothing, which is a major downgrade. This time around, they've been smart enough to downgrade the food to a point where few people will miss it when it's removed.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't have Covid-19. And Jesus, for those of you who believe, doesn't have it either. Sorry if this offends many of you, but I believe I'll die when my time comes and not before. I don't think Amtrak's menu is substantially worse than what I'm eating now. But you woke, please feel free to tell me I'm bound for Hell because you know better than me and everyone else.

 

[me_little_me]

Darn! I thought that was Anderson and Flynn telling people how good the "flex" menus are and how much better Amtrak will become with service cut back.

Of course, I watched it with the volume turned off so I couldn't be sure.

 

[Barb Stout]

Freaky.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Bad news on the food scene... Amtrak's flexible dining is extended through December 15, 2020... according to the website. There have been concerns that it will become permanent... perhaps it will. ☹

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I'll be okay with whatever they serve because I'm not that concerned with what I eat at home, a lot of takeout that I eat, because either they don't post their ingredients, or because I don't believe them. I don't have Covid-19. And Jesus, for those of you who believe, doesn't have it either.

Sorry if this offends many of you, but I believe I'll die when my time comes and not before. I don't think Amtrak's menu is substantially worse than what I'm eating now. But you woke, please feel free to tell me I'm bound for Hell because you know better than me and everyone else.

I think, in spite of my love for rail travel, that I don't belong here and I will cancel my membership to avoid angering anyone further. I just can't take anymore woke BS.

Goodbye and God bless (for those of you this doesn't offend, for those of you it does please, delete). Thank you and goodbye.

Love,
Chey

Chey,

I agree with our Bob Dylan above—please don’t leave. Just like everyone else on AU, you do belong here. We all have different views, and we do tend to get a bit intense about food especially for some reason. But we all have a love of trains, which brings us together. Having been to a couple of Gatherings, I can say firsthand that AU has some of the nicest people anyone could meet.

I have enjoyed your posts and hope you stay.

Sometimes I need a break and disappear for a while or just stick to the nontrain/nonfood threads (like the one with the gorgeous pictures of ferries), then come back when I’m ready.

Msybe consider doing something like that instead of leaving completely? I hope you will and that we will hear from you again.

—Patty

 

[sprague.terplan]

Similar to other Amtrak riders, I recently went cross country by train and selected Amtrak as I thought it was the most environmentally benign travel option. After seeing the incredible volume of packaging waste generated with each meal and due to a lack of a single recycling receptacle for the many plastic water and juice bottles and aluminum cans, I question the carbon footprint of this mode of travel.

Amtrak has to do better for our planet.

 

[rs9]

Similar to other Amtrak riders, I recently went cross country by train and selected Amtrak as I thought it was the most environmentally benign travel option. After seeing the incredible volume of packaging waste generated with each meal and due to a lack of a single recycling receptacle for the many plastic water and juice bottles and aluminum cans, I question the carbon footprint of this mode of travel.

Amtrak has to do better for our planet.

This is a legitimate concern, and personally I try to point this out to the cafe attendant every time I ride. In addition, I do not need 17 napkins with the single food item I purchase.

That said, fuel savings and emissions reductions with the new Siemens LD locomotives have a far greater environmental plus than the negatives of non recycling. Consider that quite a few of the passengers would be generating just as much trash and sadly not recycling if they were not traveling.

 

[tricia]

Similar to other Amtrak riders, I recently went cross country by train and selected Amtrak as I thought it was the most environmentally benign travel option. After seeing the incredible volume of packaging waste generated with each meal and due to a lack of a single recycling receptacle for the many plastic water and juice bottles and aluminum cans, I question the carbon footprint of this mode of travel.

Amtrak has to do better for our planet.

Thanks for posting, and for caring. Welcome to AU!

 

[GAT]

Question: What happens to Amtrak dining trash once it leaves the train? Is it possible that it goes through recycling elsewhere before the dregs are sent to landfill? Maybe Amtrak finds that more cost-effective than setting up separate recycle bins in every car throughout the system.

 

[toddinde]

Similar to other Amtrak riders, I recently went cross country by train and selected Amtrak as I thought it was the most environmentally benign travel option. After seeing the incredible volume of packaging waste generated with each meal and due to a lack of a single recycling receptacle for the many plastic water and juice bottles and aluminum cans, I question the carbon footprint of this mode of travel.

Amtrak has to do better for our planet.

I’ve thought the same for years! It’s a missed opportunity. Amtrak could be the ethical choice and could market itself that way. Not to mention that fresh and tasty food with less packaging would be more enticing. I’m not sure when Americans lost the art of simple, fresh cooking. I’m not hung up on the opulent dining car. Simple, fresh food, cooked fresh, with little waste, would be better.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Question: What happens to Amtrak dining trash once it leaves the train? Is it possible that it goes through recycling elsewhere before the dregs are sent to landfill? Maybe Amtrak finds that more cost-effective than setting up separate recycle bins in every car throughout the system.

Answer: In the US there is no practical mechanism for recycling most single use plastics and no reason to believe that Amtrak is hiding a vast recycling operation behind a charade of indifference.

 

[zephyr17]

Question: What happens to Amtrak dining trash once it leaves the train? Is it possible that it goes through recycling elsewhere before the dregs are sent to landfill? Maybe Amtrak finds that more cost-effective than setting up separate recycle bins in every car throughout the system.

Landfilled. Which is unfortunate since the cups they use are actually compostable.

 

[GAT]

Answer: In the US there is no practical mechanism for recycling most single use plastics and no reason to believe that Amtrak is hiding a vast recycling operation behind a charade of indifference.

I wasn't thinking necessarily an Amtrak operation. Aren't there commercial recycling operations at, at least, major cities where Amtrak routes terminate or pass through?

In an y event, Amtrak's Sustainability Report for 2019 reports on this. (Not too impressive a performance IMO). Look at Page 9.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/environmental1/Amtrak-Sustainability-Report-FY19.pdf

 

[MARC Rider]

It should be noted that washing dishes and linens also has an environmental footprint, too. In fact everything we do has a negative impact on the environment. I tend to agree with the poster who says that the deployment of Tier IV diesel locomotives and rail electrification will do much more for the environment than reducing Amtrak's rather miniscule contribution to the total solid waste stream.

By the way, even those yummy traditional dining meals are for the most part precooked and come in lots of disposable wrappings that are discarded before the meal is plated. Even the few things that are cooked on the train are probably wrapped before being cooked. So traditional dining probably also generates a lot of waste, it's just that the customer doesn't see it.

 

[rs9]

One way to view this issue is through the lens of incrementalism.

For me, long distance train travel instead of flying, when feasible, is an incremental way to reduce my personal carbon emissions. I'm still creating emissions but I'm reducing those emissions. Is it perfect? No. But if everyone worked to reduce their emissions incrementally, imagine the progress that could be made. Though it's worth noting, global warming should not be viewed as a problem for individuals to solve.

Personally, I think some of the issues highlighted above are less Amtrak's problems to solve and more of society in general. We take the use of single-use plastics, like plastic silverware, for granted. When you order a beer from the cafe car on Amtrak, you are automatically offered a plastic cup if you don't want to drink out of the bottle or can. We need a sea change in how we think and operate on a daily basis in our lives - I would hope Amtrak can play a role but it's not on them to lead mass societal change.

 

[sprague.terplan]

This is a legitimate concern, and personally I try to point this out to the cafe attendant every time I ride. In addition, I do not need 17 napkins with the single food item I purchase.

That said, fuel savings and emissions reductions with the new Siemens LD locomotives have a far greater environmental plus than the negatives of non recycling. Consider that quite a few of the passengers would be generating just as much trash and sadly not recycling if they were not traveling.

I appreciate the perspective and your reply!

 

[Siegmund]

Aren't there commercial recycling operations at, at least, major cities where Amtrak routes terminate or pass through?

That will vary by city... but for plastic, probably not.

In the places I spend the most time (all in the northwest), it's still possible to recycle metal and cardboard, though harder to find places to accept them than it was a few decades ago;
paper and glass recycling has scaled back; and plastic recycling has stopped entirely.

Plastic recycling happened primarily in China (kind of shocking that it was economical enough to squash all those empty bottles and ship them halfway around the world) and China stopped importing plastic in 2018. In most parts of the US, nobody has stepped up to fill the void.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

That will vary by city... but for plastic, probably not.

In the places I spend the most time (all in the northwest), it's still possible to recycle metal and cardboard, though harder to find places to accept them than it was a few decades ago;
paper and glass recycling has scaled back; and plastic recycling has stopped entirely.

Plastic recycling happened primarily in China (kind of shocking that it was economical enough to squash all those empty bottles and ship them halfway around the world) and China stopped importing plastic in 2018. In most parts of the US, nobody has stepped up to fill the void.

I think the economics was such that an empty boat going back was bringing in zero revenue whereas a ship hauling a bit of recyclables would bring in something greater than zero in revenue.


There are a few options for east coast plastic recycling based on what I have been told by folks that run the waste reduction in my city as I have them talk to my students in my earth/environmental class. The answer is to get rid of plastics which is easy to type and hard to do. A company up the road from where I live takes soda bottles and converts to textile for clothing. It is still plastic and still going to become microplastics. Glad it has a 2nd life but it is still going to be plastic pollution in a few years.

A shame we can't trust each other to not contaminate glass bottles so they can be washed and reused instead of broken down and reformed. The energy cost has got to be a lot higher for the later option. I know water is not is excess supply but we are really drowning in plastic.
At some point, and it may be soon, we are going to have to come with grips that we as a human society, and especially those of us that use WAY more than our share of resources have to cut dramatically our consumption or energy, resources, and change in a drastic way our life style. Everyone reading this will not be alive to see the bad outcomes without drastic changes so hard to get people to change, and that includes me.

This went from a short explanation of west coast recycling to doom and gloom for all of us. Sorry.