San Clemente landslide affects Pacific Surfliner 1/24/24

[MIrailfan]

LA-San Diego rail suspended again.
"Pacific Surfliner

@PacSurfliners
·
3h

As of 5:16 PM PT, Due to an unforeseen track closure resulting from previous weather events, all trains traveling between Los Angeles and San Diego can expect lengthy delays and potential cancelations. Updates to follow as more information becomes available. #SurflinerAlert"





"

 

[hmy1]

Unfortunately, here we go again:

https://www.pacificsurfliner.com/plan-your-trip/alerts/travel-advisories/#trackclosures

Tracks Closed near San Clemente Pier due to Falling Debris from Nearby Slope
Effective January 24 until further notice

Due to debris falling on the tracks, train service is temporarily suspended in San Clemente. Passengers are being offered bus connections between Irvine and Oceanside for alternative travel during the closure.

https://metrolinktrains.com/news/alert-details-page/?alertId=1167447https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/...-diego-counties-after-san-clemente-landslide/https://ktla.com/news/local-news/sa...onto-tracks-stalling-passenger-train-service/https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/landslide-in-san-clemente-halts-train-service/
Edit: Deleted one article which was about the reopening last year.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Honestly, this is why you don't build tracks on beaches and at the base of bluffs, even if it is the easiest and flattest route...

 

[joelkfla]

Photo here:
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/sa...vmcw7AFP1qRTPQtP6bkS3hSShHh2FvdwYpeZDkwdmIRYY

 

[GDRRiley]

Honestly, this is why you don't build tracks on beaches and at the base of bluffs, even if it is the easiest and flattest route...

this was done 100+ years ago
We started the plan to move it 20 years ago but it never advanced out of some early concepts
Given the scale of the issue it should be reopen in 2-3 months maybe 1 month if they start working 24/7 instead of the 12/5 they were doing last time

 

[MIrailfan]

We need to streamline the approval process too. Not eliminate it but streamline it.

 

[allanorn]

Given the scale of the issue it should be reopen in 2-3 months maybe 1 month if they start working 24/7 instead of the 12/5 they were doing last time

The weather forecast from February 1st through the 9th is less real than Disneyland but it's trending quite wet. That might delay proceedings, or cause another slide somewhere else while they're fixing this one. While we may need more rain down here, I hope those scenarios don't come to pass.

As for longer-term I expect at least another decade of this on-again, off-again status before it's rerouted and open. I think CEQA and NEPA can probably be expedited, but I imagine lawsuits will hold up construction.

 

[MIrailfan]

The weather forecast from February 1st through the 9th is less real than Disneyland but it's trending quite wet. That might delay proceedings, or cause another slide somewhere else while they're fixing this one. While we may need more rain down here, I hope those scenarios don't come to pass.

As for longer-term I expect at least another decade of this on-again, off-again status before it's rerouted and open. I think CEQA and NEPA can probably be expedited, but I imagine lawsuits will hold up construction.

See that right there is what slows things down. Bureaucracy and redundancy.

 

[moosejunky99]

I am on a train from LAX to SAN and SAN to RIV in 1st week of September. Hopefully they can get it fixed by then. We will see.. If i have a train that does not work. Does Amtrak automatically cancel your trip and refund the money?

 

[Cal]

I am on a train from LAX to SAN and SAN to RIV in 1st week of September. Hopefully they can get it fixed by then. We will see.. If i have a train that does not work. Does Amtrak automatically cancel your trip and refund the money?

I think you will just be on a bus for some of the route. I would check the website and/or call to see their plans if it's out of service for your date.

A friend of mine has shown that work begun on the route yesterday, so I think they're trying to get it open soon.

 

[MIrailfan]

I think you will just be on a bus for some of the route. I would check the website and/or call to see their plans if it's out of service for your date.

A friend of mine has shown that work begun on the route yesterday, so I think they're trying to get it open soon.

September? It will be fixed by March. April llatest.

 

[moosejunky99]

Yes hopefully this does not happen again but i been on those tracks before and it is crazy line when the cliffs and becahes.

 

[Cal]

September? It will be fixed by March. April llatest.

Yeah but to be honest, it's not the most unreasonable idea that another issue may occur later in the year too. Which is why I said "if it's out of service at that date", instead of "still out of service by that date."

 

[MIrailfan]

Yeah but to be honest, it's not the most unreasonable idea that another issue may occur later in the year too. Which is why I said "if it's out of service at that date", instead of "still out of service by that date."

True. They need to bypass this whole area long term.

 

[daybeers]

I would be interested to know how much all these closures cost, between the bustitutions, refunds, lost passengers (some forever), and construction.

I would imagine the total is much higher than what would cost to actually fix the problem.

 

[GDRRiley]

I would be interested to know how much all these closures cost, between the bustitutions, refunds, lost passengers (some forever), and construction.

I would imagine the total is much higher than what would cost to actually fix the problem.

they likely cost 5-10M a month, adding more walls is the near term fix and likely going to cost 50m to protect the most likely slide spots. Also needs CCC approval
the long term fix is a bypass along I-5 which mattering on how much is tunneled would likely be 5-10B.

 

[MIrailfan]

https://www.change.org/reroutePacificSurfliner

 

[George Harris]

Honestly, this is why you don't build tracks on beaches and at the base of bluffs, even if it is the easiest and flattest route...

There is nothing inherently wrong with this concept and route, other than its curvature. Flat is a very good thing, and low cost also was a near necessity at the beginning, as for the original we were talking about private money, not government printing press as a source of finance. What is really needed is an end to end fix of slope reinforcement, preferably with some cutting back to allow a second main throughout. From an engineering perspective this would be fairly easy to do. This could be done to be reliable for the indefinite future and would be far lower in cost that relocation. A program for this to be done should be developed and done asap, and forget all this pontificating about all this relocation relocation plans as these will be bogged down near forever by NIMBYisms and permits.

 

[MARC Rider]

There is nothing inherently wrong with this concept and route, other than its curvature. Flat is a very good thing, and low cost also was a near necessity at the beginning, as for the original we were talking about private money, not government printing press as a source of finance. What is really needed is an end to end fix of slope reinforcement, preferably with some cutting back to allow a second main throughout. From an engineering perspective this would be fairly easy to do. This could be done to be reliable for the indefinite future and would be far lower in cost that relocation. A program for this to be done should be developed and done asap, and forget all this pontificating about all this relocation relocation plans as these will be bogged down near forever by NIMBYisms and permits.

Are the existing tracks at a sufficient height to avoid problems from expected sea level rise and storm surges?

 

[GDRRiley]

Are the existing tracks at a sufficient height to avoid problems from expected sea level rise and storm surges?

No they already get over topped during rough storms

There is nothing inherently wrong with this concept and route, other than its curvature. Flat is a very good thing, and low cost also was a near necessity at the beginning, as for the original we were talking about private money, not government printing press as a source of finance. What is really needed is an end to end fix of slope reinforcement, preferably with some cutting back to allow a second main throughout. From an engineering perspective this would be fairly easy to do. This could be done to be reliable for the indefinite future and would be far lower in cost that relocation. A program for this to be done should be developed and done asap, and forget all this pontificating about all this relocation relocation plans as these will be bogged down near forever by NIMBYisms and permits.

staying in place is a bad idea. Just commit to moving the rail line and start the design work now
you aren't going to get CCC approval to harden both sides of the rail line and have enough space for 2 tracks especially with the trail there

 

[allanorn]

Are the existing tracks at a sufficient height to avoid problems from expected sea level rise and storm surges?

Not at all. I've been on a Surfliner that was sprayed by the sea during high surf.

staying in place is a bad idea. Just commit to moving the rail line and start the design work now
you aren't going to get CCC approval to harden both sides of the rail line and have enough space for 2 tracks especially with the trail there

Exactly. There's no space on the coastline that won't get messed up by erosion, rising tides, or both.

The Del Mar Bluffs realignment project has been planned for a while and they're down to two ideas; they just need money and environmental clearance. The San Clemente realignment is less further along from what I know, and looking at a map it's not going to be easy to place short of a massive I-5 trench expansion through San Clemente. That area's already built up to the foothills and I-5 is a bottleneck there.

 

[hmy1]

The latest Amtrak service alert says that normal operations will resume on Saturday 2/3. Hopefully the storm predicted for later this week won't impact it.

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/service-temporarily-disrupted-between-los-angles-and-san-diego.html

 

[GDRRiley]

The latest Amtrak service alert says that normal operations will resume on Saturday 2/3. Hopefully the storm predicted for later this week won't impact it.

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/service-temporarily-disrupted-between-los-angles-and-san-diego.html

Saturday, February 3rd

• A timeline for reopening has not yet been determined.

They might have just changed the wording but so far we don't know for sure. seems like they are doing this week by week which makes sense

and this is from OCTA the track owner

 

[west point]

Here is a thought. Do any of these mansions have a septic tank system? Also do any have a dry well system for rain water to flow into? Probably not but a question to answer.

 

[hmy1]

They might have just changed the wording but so far we don't know for sure. seems like they are doing this week by week which makes sense

Actually, this was the service alert that was timestamped yesterday 1/28 at 8:00pm:

Friday, January 26 - Friday, February 2nd

Northbound

• Train 573 & 587 are cancelled in their entirety
• Train 761 is cancelled between San Diego and Los Angeles
• Train 765 is cancelled between San Diego and Irvine
• Train 581, 591 & 595 are canceled between San Diego and Oceanside
• Trains 769, 777 & 785 will operate as a bus bridge between Oceanside and Irvine

Southbound

• Trains 572 & 586 are canceled in their entirety
• Train 562 is cancelled between San Juan Capistrano and San Diego
• Train 564 is cancelled between San Juan Capistrano and Oceanside
• Train 580 & 790 are cancelled between Oceanside and San Diego
• Train 794 is cancelled between Fullerton and San Diego
• Trains 770, 774 & 784 will operate as a bus bridge between Irvine and Oceanside

Saturday, February 3rd

• All trains retun to normal operaion.

Maybe it was an Amtrak employee prematurely posting the current optimistic plan or misunderstanding that the bus shuttle plans are being updated in their reservation system on a weekly basis only. Regardless, I noticed that the latest service update timestamped today 1/29 at 1:50pm removes any references to dates and track reopening.

I would also like to add that the service alert text is slightly misleading:
- One might think you would be able to take north-bound trains 581/591/595 from OSD, where in reality they originate in SNC
- Vice versa with south-bound trains 580 and 790
- 794 ends in LAX, not FUL

And they should consider using a spell checker, too.