Seattle King St. station, walk to Pioneer Square

[rms492]

Hello, I'm arriving on the Empire Builder (10:30am), and I mapped out the walk to my hotel using street view.
It does not look very pleasant, has Seattle changed? Potholes, dirty sidewalks, tents everywhere around the station and on the surrounding streets.

Should I take a cab or Uber? Its slightly less than 3/4 of a mile, hate to have a cab driver get mad at me for short a short trip.

or, is the walk safe enough?

 

[zephyr17]

The area around the station has been Seattle's homeless central for many decades. The original Skid Row was Yesler. There are more homeless there now, but it is not a fundamental change in that particular area.

I just walked down to King Street from the Snohomish County Community Transit stop at 4th and Washington at 9 am to catch the Thruway bus to Vancouver yesterday, fully loaded with backpack, rolling suitcase and cased CPAP and had no issues, as expected.

At 10:30 am it isn't a problem. The area can be visually unpleasant and you may well get panhandled, but it isnt a safety issue. Just put on your "city face" and walk

 

[Acela150]

You can always use the Link 1 line. It's a short walk to the International District/Chinatown Station, and it's about a 2-3 minute trip to Pioneer Square from there, it's the next stop.

 

[Palmland]

It’s been a long time since we spent time (maybe 15 years) in Seattle but I remember a pleasant streetcar ride and short walk to Pioneer square. While I remember Portland having many homeless don’t recall it was an issue in Seattle and we really enjoyed our time there. More recently we just had a quick overnight between trains.

Any chance the streetcar will return and what is being done to find a solution for the homeless.

 

[flitcraft]

No on the streetcar, sadly. They tore down the storage sheds for the cars to make the sculpture park. I think the classic streetcars ended up in Melbourne Australia. At least, they looked identical to me.

The solution for the homeless is anyone's guess. Housing in the area is crazy-expensive, there is a dearth of reasonably priced rental units, and a large percentage of the homeless have problems in addition to housing, including mental health and substance abuse issues. We've spent mega-millions on solutions that are just bandaids. It's tragic that in a country as wealthy as ours, we have permanent Hoovervilles all over the West Coast--anywhere the weather isn't brutal. Unfortunately, I think compassion-fatigue is making it hard to come up with practical solutions, all of which will require substantial public investment.

 

[zephyr17]

It’s been a long time since we spent time (maybe 15 years) in Seattle but I remember a pleasant streetcar ride and short walk to Pioneer square. While I remember Portland having many homeless don’t recall it was an issue in Seattle and we really enjoyed our time there. More recently we just had a quick overnight between trains.

Any chance the streetcar will return and what is being done to find a solution for the homeless.

Well, you clearly did not go through Occidental Park squarely between King Street Station and the heart of Pioneer Square at 1st & Yesler 15 years ago. That has always been a congregation point for the homeless. I guarantee you would have noticed the issue.

I repeat, the Pioneer Square area has always been an area full of the homeless. The difference now is they are all over, not just in the Pioneer Square vicinity, where they've always been. Other parts of downtown look and feel different. Pioneer Square isn't much different than it ever was.

I've lived in the Seattle metro area for 32 years, btw. King Street is one of my home stations. I was just there on Friday.

That streetcar is long gone. There is a new light rail line that goes up to First Hill that goes down Jackson right in front of King Street Station, though. Starts at Jackson and Occidental and goes east.

 

[flitcraft]

Oops, I was wrong about the streetcars. At least, somewhat. Yes, the Sculpture Garden displaced the streetcar sheds for maintenance. And yes, the cars are indeed identical to the Melbourne streetcars. But it seems we bought ours from them, not vice versa. So apparently five of them still exist in limbo in Seattle. Or did two years ago, anyway. Maybe someday they will roll again. Or maybe not...

Homeless issues were a lot different in the past here in Seattle. Yes, we always had a challenge with street alcoholics who hung out during the day in Pioneer Square drinking MD 20/20 out of paper bags. But at night they tended to decamp to the Union Gospel Mission for the night. The difference now is large congregations of tents, and the conflicts that inevitably arise when people are packed into an area with inadequate shelter and sanitation. (Imagine if Woodstock had lasted a month...I shudder to think). Back when I worked in Pioneer Square, we were talking about a few dozen unhoused people. Now the estimate is that there are 12,000 homeless folks within the city limits. And it can only get worse, given the economic forces squeezing people with marginal income into desperate circumstances. I have no solutions to offer, but I do know that the situation is exponentially worse than it was when I arrived in Seattle in the late 70's and even much worse than it was ten years ago.

 

[mgkeihl]

My son picked me up at station and we walked around the area for over 3 hours! Yes, lots of sadness for fellow humans but I never felt unsafe. We went to the public market, complete with travel bags etc. Never was approached by anyone as in Rochester and Chicago. Lol I think we climbed a lot of steep streets and at 64 with not great knees was far worse than a scare! There is a lot to see and do close to the station! We then took the local train to Kent. We came back for 2 more day trips and were all walking. Enjoy the sites!! Take the ferry!!!!

 

[Asher]

Catch an Uber. Short trips are their specialty.

 

[mcropod]

Oops, I was wrong about the streetcars. At least, somewhat. Yes, the Sculpture Garden displaced the streetcar sheds for maintenance. And yes, the cars are indeed identical to the Melbourne streetcars. But it seems we bought ours from them, not vice versa. So apparently five of them still exist in limbo in Seattle. Or did two years ago, anyway. Maybe someday they will roll again. Or maybe not...

(snip)

(snip)

I think the classic streetcars ended up in Melbourne Australia. At least, they looked identical to me.

(snip)

Indeed vice-versa as you state: three surplus superceded Melbourne trams were sent to Seattle after about 50 years' service, as this piece describes...

https://yarratrams.com.au/news/tram-482s-place-in-nba-history
Melbourne - a city of about four million bodies - has a very active, well patronised, and extensive tram system, and is well worth a lookout if you ever get here.

 

[Willbridge]

A couple of footnotes:

Yesler Way and its counterpart in Portland (Burnside) are Skid Road, not Skid Row. The name comes from the practice of skidding logs down to the waterfront. There are some scholarly arguments as to whether the term Skid Row is a corruption of Skid Road or whether it's an Eastern invention.

The waterfront streetcar was pushed through (Seattle politics defined: If it isn't my idea, it's a bad idea.) by city councilman Benson. After he passed away the wolves devoured it.

I had lunch with him in 1983 at an APTA convention and the vision that he supported was to better tie the waterfront together and to connect it with downtown. Visitors to the waterfront tend to come down the hill from 1st Avenue to some specific destination and then climb the hill again. He was quite a salesman on it and convinced me to tour the streetcar line rather than the Metro bus dispatching facility. When I showed up for it, I realized that some of the most noted thinkers in public transit at the time were there to ride it. Apparently, the high-tech bus dispatching center could wait.

Here's a typical hill climb between the waterfront and downtown Seattle.

 

[Danib62]

We were in Seattle last summer and did this walk. It was totally fine. 10:30 in the morning you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[Maglev]

If you're there on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, the Klondike Gold Rush National Historical Park is just two blocks from the station.

https://www.nps.gov/klse/index.htm

 

[Dakota 400]

Here's a typical hill climb between the waterfront and downtown Seattle.

Well remember those hills! Did it many several years ago; could not do it now!

 

[Willbridge]

Well remember those hills! Did it many several years ago; could not do it now!

1st Avenue has its own slope down to Yesler, so with some planning the steepest grades can be avoided. And at least the last time I was on 1st, there were interesting businesses along the way.

 

[flitcraft]

The Lusty Lady is no more, for better or for worse. That section of 1st Avenue was notorious for shady businesses: a donut shop that coordinated teenaged prostitution, tattoo shops, bars that catered to non-English speaking sailors for prices that they didn't fully understand, and a place called Love Beds--with a window to the street on which a young woman lounged on a double bed. Patrons would pay admission, only to discover that what they'd paid for was chaste lying on a bed. If they complained, one of the staff would confidentially in a low voice tell them that they were looking for the "Ballroom," for an extra fee. Of course, the whole thing was a con. We had a few cases that came out of Love Beds, as well as the other seedy establishments, at the public defender--and the city attorney finally had them closed down--afraid that someday a defrauded customer might act homicidally. The Lusty Lady was actually a pretty legit strip joint, though--and treated its staff much better that women in that industry usually were treated, I heard.

All this is long gone though...along with the sailor clientele they depended upon. With container ships you don't need the sailors that used to be involved in shipping back in the day...

 

[frequentflyer]

The Lusty Lady is no more, for better or for worse. That section of 1st Avenue was notorious for shady businesses: a donut shop that coordinated teenaged prostitution, tattoo shops, bars that catered to non-English speaking sailors for prices that they didn't fully understand, and a place called Love Beds--with a window to the street on which a young woman lounged on a double bed. Patrons would pay admission, only to discover that what they'd paid for was chaste lying on a bed. If they complained, one of the staff would confidentially in a low voice tell them that they were looking for the "Ballroom," for an extra fee. Of course, the whole thing was a con. We had a few cases that came out of Love Beds, as well as the other seedy establishments, at the public defender--and the city attorney finally had them closed down--afraid that someday a defrauded customer might act homicidally. The Lusty Lady was actually a pretty legit strip joint, though--and treated its staff much better that women in that industry usually were treated, I heard.

All this is long gone though...along with the sailor clientele they depended upon. With container ships you don't need the sailors that used to be involved in shipping back in the day...

Wow, and to think Boeing, Microsoft and Starbucks comes to mind when I think of Seattle.

If someone steps to you in a wrong way, one can always go "Will Smith" on them.................................too soon?.......................Ok.....................nevermind, call Uber.

 

[Deni]

Lusty Lady had the best lines on their marquee back in the day when I lived in Seattle. They were always puns of some saying or movie title to make them about ***. The Loin King was one I remember back when Lion King was the big movie. Happy Nude Year showed up on new year's eve/day, and I think "Always Open, Never Clothed."

 

[Willbridge]

Wow, and to think Boeing, Microsoft and Starbucks comes to mind when I think of Seattle.

If someone steps to you in a wrong way, one can always go "Will Smith" on them.................................too soon?.......................Ok.....................nevermind, call Uber.

When walking in the Pioneer Square area it's a good place to consider the elements of Seattle's history that influenced the development of those companies. And to note that Boeing's troubles developed when they moved their HQ away.

In the newspaper business, the Hearst chain used the Seattle Post-Intelligencer as Siberia for management employees who were independent thinkers. Other companies that rotated managers into Seattle (or Portland) discovered that they did not to move on when promotions were offered. And, as discussed here, the interface with the waterfront and overseas connections was a part of everyday life. For geographic reasons, north-south connections with California and British Columbia dominated travel and culture. (My mother, who was born in Oregon, didn't leave the Pacific Time Zone till her 30's.) All of this didn't cause the creation of those companies, but influenced their corporate culture.