Senate amendment to eliminate food/beverage on Amtrak (LD too)

[the_traveler]

Per NARP, Senate amendment #1764 (sponsored be Sen Jeff Flake of AZ) would eliminate all food and beverage service from Amtrak!

Could you imagine going from CHI-LAX on the TE/SL (via SAS) and not have food or beverages available for 3 days? :huh: Even the CZ (2 days), EB (2 days) or SS/SM (1 day) is unbelievable!

Contact your Senators ASAP and tell them to oppose Senate amendment #1764!

 

[JoeBas]

Finally, a politician who's aptly named!

 

[gmushial]

What is the supposed logic behind this? Or just has his head where the sun don't shine and the lack of oxygen has aversely affected this cranial functions? [btw I search his site, the GPO site and found no references to s.1764 ?? is that the correct number ??]

 

[Alexandria Nick]

That's not the bill number, its the amendment number.

 

[BrianPR3]

i have the bill #

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:s.1243:

 

[sportbiker]

I really don't get the obsession (and I think that is the correct word) that some in Congress have with kneecaping Amtrak. There's no big anti-Amtrak lobby dispensing million of dollars in bribes contributions to members, or threatening to unseat members who vote to fund Amtrak. The subsidy Amtrak receives relative to the size of the budget is so small that even eliminating it wouldn't get the budget any closer to balance. I don't hear of any public uproar demanding that Amtrak be eliminated. Am I missing something? Where does this obsession come from?

 

[Alexandria Nick]

People labor under the mistaken belief that cut a few billion here and a few billion there and bam problem solved.

People also don't understand how debt functions in the first place. They think its the same as their own debts and its not even close to the same thing.

 

[NW cannonball]

There's not any such obsession. There are several lobbyist groups that want to distract attention from their own multibillion subsidies. Once in a while a congresscrittur puts up an Amtrak-related knee-cap amendement as requested by his/her supporters. These mostly fail. But to get into the politics of it -- off-topic here.

If you support Amtrak as it is, or a better future for rational national transport -- write your concresscrittur. And complain when that crittur proposes amendments that favor his/her biggest dollar supporters at the expense of sensible government policy.

But -- this is not a politics forum - very little so.

 

[JoeBas]

Looks like he's gunning for the sleepers too...

SA 1764. Mr. FLAKE submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1243, making appropriations for the Departments of Transportation, and Housing and Urban Development, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2014, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:

On page 52, after line 24, add the following:

Sec. 155. None of the funds made available under this Act may be used to subsidize costs related to food and beverage and first class services on any route operated by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Looks like he's gunning for the sleepers too...
SA 1764. Mr. FLAKE submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1243, making appropriations for the Departments of Transportation, and Housing and Urban Development, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2014, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:

On page 52, after line 24, add the following:

Sec. 155. None of the funds made available under this Act may be used to subsidize costs related to food and beverage and first class services on any route operated by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation.

That would essentially kill Acela which is Amtrak's bread and butter. Don't worry-this will go nowhere.

 

[Acela150]

Just remember.. Amtrak doesn't serve his state, so says his co-senator John McCain..

 

[Paulus]

Looks like he's gunning for the sleepers too...

SA 1764. Mr. FLAKE submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1243, making appropriations for the Departments of Transportation, and Housing and Urban Development, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2014, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:

On page 52, after line 24, add the following:

Sec. 155. None of the funds made available under this Act may be used to subsidize costs related to food and beverage and first class services on any route operated by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation.

That would essentially kill Acela which is Amtrak's bread and butter. Don't worry-this will go nowhere.

Doesn't kill Acela, that requires no subsidy.

 

[Burrito Lady]

I'm al for this. More sales at stations !!!!

 

[chakk]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

 

[cirdan]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

It's all a question of cost allocation. As long as you don't have a plane that is all first class, you always have some wriggle room to move things around so it looks as if one part is paying its way and anothr part isn't. What percentage of the pilot's salary can you tag to first class passengers? What percentage of fuel? Of airport and security costs? I venture to say that most commercial flights would cease to be profitable if economy class passengers were suddenly eliminated.

 

[Bus Nut]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

It's all a question of cost allocation. As long as you don't have a plane that is all first class, you always have some wriggle room to move things around so it looks as if one part is paying its way and anothr part isn't. What percentage of the pilot's salary can you tag to first class passengers? What percentage of fuel? Of airport and security costs? I venture to say that most commercial flights would cease to be profitable if economy class passengers were suddenly eliminated.

Before you even get to that point, it's not clear that airlines have priced first class services in a way that's favorable to them at this point. They are trying to reduce unpaid upgrades now with a lot of resistance. Some airlines made the decision not to borrow with FC at all. While not all Amtrak FC patrons paid full price (using points, for example) at least Amtrak has a much simpler and more rational rewards program. Airline upgrades on legacy carriers are much more capricious to the carrier and given their difficulties covering costs in the last few years it's not clear that it makes much economic sense.

 

[JoeBas]

That would essentially kill Acela which is Amtrak's bread and butter. Don't worry-this will go nowhere.

I'm not worried, rather bringing full disclosure to the actual suggested impacts.

 

[JoeBas]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

It's all a question of cost allocation. As long as you don't have a plane that is all first class, you always have some wriggle room to move things around so it looks as if one part is paying its way and anothr part isn't. What percentage of the pilot's salary can you tag to first class passengers? What percentage of fuel? Of airport and security costs? I venture to say that most commercial flights would cease to be profitable if economy class passengers were suddenly eliminated.

A northeastern Senator should bring a counter proposal, requiring the same of aircrafts, including subsidies for airports, ATC, etc.

I'm sure this amendment going after LD services has NOTHING to do with this...

US AirwaysFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US Airways is a major U.S. airline owned by the US Airways Group, headquartered in Tempe, Arizona.

 

[gmushial]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

It's all a question of cost allocation. As long as you don't have a plane that is all first class, you always have some wriggle room to move things around so it looks as if one part is paying its way and anothr part isn't. What percentage of the pilot's salary can you tag to first class passengers? What percentage of fuel? Of airport and security costs? I venture to say that most commercial flights would cease to be profitable if economy class passengers were suddenly eliminated.

A northeastern Senator should bring a counter proposal, requiring the same of aircrafts, including subsidies for airports, ATC, etc.

I'm sure this amendment going after LD services has NOTHING to do with this...

US AirwaysFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US Airways is a major U.S. airline owned by the US Airways Group, headquartered in Tempe, Arizona.

But doing such would be much too rational for small-brained corporate-owned "representatives." ... wish America would wake up and understand that our mega-billion dollar elections, inc., allow for only corporate sponsored candidates to run, resulting in the "representation" that we currently have - many many other democracies have long seen this failing and have banded political advertising / or severely limited it (the major cost item in elections), finding no loss in information flow to the electorate, but finding a vast improvement in the quality/representation of the candidates. ... climbing down off his soapbox.

 

[Nathanael]

... wish America would wake up and understand that our mega-billion dollar elections, inc., allow for only corporate sponsored candidates to run, resulting in the "representation" that we currently have - many many other democracies have long seen this failing and have banded political advertising / or severely limited it (the major cost item in elections), finding no loss in information flow to the electorate, but finding a vast improvement in the quality/representation of the candidates. ... climbing down off his soapbox.

At least with the rise of the open Internet, we have soapboxes (like this one!). In the Age of TV and Radio, we didn't, and advertising was completely dominant over, well, real information.

This is probably why so many companies are so hostile to "net neutrality", the idea that we should be able to get to whatever website we want at the same speed.

 

[tonys96]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

It's all a question of cost allocation. As long as you don't have a plane that is all first class, you always have some wriggle room to move things around so it looks as if one part is paying its way and anothr part isn't. What percentage of the pilot's salary can you tag to first class passengers? What percentage of fuel? Of airport and security costs? I venture to say that most commercial flights would cease to be profitable if economy class passengers were suddenly eliminated.

A northeastern Senator should bring a counter proposal, requiring the same of aircrafts, including subsidies for airports, ATC, etc.

I'm sure this amendment going after LD services has NOTHING to do with this...

US AirwaysFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US Airways is a major U.S. airline owned by the US Airways Group, headquartered in Tempe, Arizona.

Cynic. :hi:

 

[gmushial]

... wish America would wake up and understand that our mega-billion dollar elections, inc., allow for only corporate sponsored candidates to run, resulting in the "representation" that we currently have - many many other democracies have long seen this failing and have banded political advertising / or severely limited it (the major cost item in elections), finding no loss in information flow to the electorate, but finding a vast improvement in the quality/representation of the candidates. ... climbing down off his soapbox.

At least with the rise of the open Internet, we have soapboxes (like this one!). In the Age of TV and Radio, we didn't, and advertising was completely dominant over, well, real information.

This is probably why so many companies are so hostile to "net neutrality", the idea that we should be able to get to whatever website we want at the same speed.

Yes, being able to have a voice and realize that others are equally unhappy, is a step forward... but does nothing w/re the cost of getting elected (and the engendered deep pocket connections required to do such and the resulting servitude of "our" representatives). ... but, yes, one step at a time.

 

[fulham]

I have another take on this...

Some experts believe that Amtrak's greatest expense is in maintaining the infrastructure of the NEC. What would it do to Amtrak's bottom line if they were not responsible for that actual upkeep of the corridor. They would continue to own it and operate it but would not have to pay to maintain it.

Who then were take on this expense. Simple, the mid-Atlantic and New England states the NEC serves. Mass/RI/CT/NY/NJ/PA/MD/DE and maybe even Virginia.

How would they pay for it? This is where it gets politically interesting. If it is fact true that the so called "blue-states" of which the NEC is located in pay out more in taxes than they receive in benefits, the Democratic reps in these states need to say, we want to keep more of our tax dollars here in our areas as oppossed to giving them to other parts of the country (ie the "red-states"...the Jeff Flake states). The NEC is a very crucial part of the economy in the northeast. If in fact these states are paying out more in taxes than they are receiving in benefits, they need to point this out to their Republican counterparts. If certain red states have some programs cut, they can simply raise there own taxes to make up the difference.

Without the expense of maintaining the NEC, it would be much easier to get a handle on Amtrak's actual finances, and determine if the LD trains are as much a drag on the system as some maintain.

This is a tough issue but one that needs to be had.

 

[gmushial]

I have another take on this...
Some experts believe that Amtrak's greatest expense is in maintaining the infrastructure of the NEC. What would it do to Amtrak's bottom line if they were not responsible for that actual upkeep of the corridor. They would continue to own it and operate it but would not have to pay to maintain it.

Who then were take on this expense. Simple, the mid-Atlantic and New England states the NEC serves. Mass/RI/CT/NY/NJ/PA/MD/DE and maybe even Virginia.

How would they pay for it? This is where it gets politically interesting. If it is fact true that the so called "blue-states" of which the NEC is located in pay out more in taxes than they receive in benefits, the Democratic reps in these states need to say, we want to keep more of our tax dollars here in our areas as oppossed to giving them to other parts of the country (ie the "red-states"...the Jeff Flake states). The NEC is a very crucial part of the economy in the northeast. If in fact these states are paying out more in taxes than they are receiving in benefits, they need to point this out to their Republican counterparts. If certain red states have some programs cut, they can simply raise there own taxes to make up the difference.

Without the expense of maintaining the NEC, it would be much easier to get a handle on Amtrak's actual finances, and determine if the LD trains are as much a drag on the system as some maintain.

This is a tough issue but one that needs to be had.

Interesting and well thought out point of view.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

I consider the key word in the proposed amendmentn to be "subsidize". Perhaps Sen. Flake is really saying that food and drink services and first class services need to be priced by Amtrak to recover all of their actual costs. I think it is certainly true that most airlines today price their first class services and food and (alcoholic) drink services to cover their costs -- and much more!

It's all a question of cost allocation. As long as you don't have a plane that is all first class, you always have some wriggle room to move things around so it looks as if one part is paying its way and anothr part isn't. What percentage of the pilot's salary can you tag to first class passengers? What percentage of fuel? Of airport and security costs? I venture to say that most commercial flights would cease to be profitable if economy class passengers were suddenly eliminated.

A northeastern Senator should bring a counter proposal, requiring the same of aircrafts, including subsidies for airports, ATC, etc.

I'm sure this amendment going after LD services has NOTHING to do with this...

US AirwaysFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US Airways is a major U.S. airline owned by the US Airways Group, headquartered in Tempe, Arizona.

But doing such would be much too rational for small-brained corporate-owned "representatives." ... wish America would wake up and understand that our mega-billion dollar elections, inc., allow for only corporate sponsored candidates to run, resulting in the "representation" that we currently have - many many other democracies have long seen this failing and have banded political advertising / or severely limited it (the major cost item in elections), finding no loss in information flow to the electorate, but finding a vast improvement in the quality/representation of the candidates. ... climbing down off his soapbox.

But at the same time, plenty of regular people are stockholders in those companies or their retirements depend on it. Why should their voice not carry weight just because they use a proxy mouthpiece?