Significant former routes

[rail sale]

I have a history question and this seem to be the place to ask.

It seems like the 2035 plan emphasizes corridor development but it makes a nod to the value of LD trains in connecting the system together.

My question is, what historical routes (or alternative new LD routes) could complement the 2035 plan but are not included.
to me the low hanging fruit are the Dixie Flagler (with a new name) (CHI, Nashville, ATL, MIA) and the Desert Wind (CHI, Ogden, LV, LA).

Any thoughts about plausible LD that should have been brought in to the mix.

 

[Cal]

The Pioneer would be a good train to bring back, connecting Denver and Salt Lake City to the Pacific Northwest without having to go through California or Chicago.

 

[rail sale]

The Pioneer would be a good train to bring back, connecting Denver and Salt Lake City to the Pacific Northwest without having to go through California or Chicago.

I think you are right. Salt Lake through Sun Valley are growth areas, a route up that way could be good, perhaps some throughways to connect in to Montana is a more modern response than the North Coast Hiawatha option. (btw my map is starting from work by @yfreemark)

 

[railiner]

Amtrak era National Limited would be nice, but would require an alternate route Pittsburgh to Columbus.
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0033
Pre-Amtrak era, I would like the Rock Island Twin Star Rocket...
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/twinstar195707.html

 

[rail sale]

Amtrak era National Limited would be nice, but would require an alternate route Pittsburgh to Columbus.
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0033
Pre-Amtrak era, I would like the Rock Island Twin Star Rocket...
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/twinstar195707.html

Whoa, I didn't know Indy to St. Louis was a thing in the Amtrak era! Is the Pittsburg - Columbus route abandoned? Pitts-Columbus-Indy seems like a corridor to me.

 

[rail sale]

Whoa, I didn't know Indy to St. Louis was a thing in the Amtrak era! Is the Pittsburg - Columbus route abandoned? Pitts-Columbus-Indy seems like a corridor to me.

Is this a fair representation of the National Limited?

 

[Willbridge]

Is this a fair representation of the National Limited?
View attachment 22784

Given the constraints of a schematic system map it looks right. Perhaps someone familiar with the alternate route for Pittsburgh<>Indianapolis will offer ideas of how to squeeze it in.

It isn't a big deal on the map scale but this illustrates how all sorts of connections factor up with added service. At the unlabeled station in Effingham, Illinois a friend made a National Limited connection in the early days of Amtrak from Kansas City to a point in southern Illinois.

 

[railiner]

I was never a fan of 'schematic' maps...in the example above, it would show the Effingham junction north of Champaign-Urbana, when it is well south.
The New York MTA at one time used schematic maps of the subway, but have since gone back to more geographic ones...

 

[railiner]

I much prefer the index map used in the Amtrak National Timetables...
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0028http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0027

 

[jiml]

Amtrak era National Limited would be nice, but would require an alternate route Pittsburgh to Columbus.
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0033
Pre-Amtrak era, I would like the Rock Island Twin Star Rocket...
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/twinstar195707.html

These are definitely two I'd like to see, and will also second both the Desert Wind (my favorite Amtrak train) and the Pioneer - which were part of the same train most times, although sometimes just as far as Denver and other times to Salt Lake City or Ogden (depending on the era).

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I of course am partial to the Broadway Limited/Three Rivers. Technically that is part of the Amtrak system but requires the dreaded connection.

Service to actual San Francisco and not Emeryville or Oakland.

Agree with more East/West service through Columbus, Ohio but the fact that Amtrak is considering service to Columbus at all tells me they are finally waking up.

 

[rail sale]

Thanks for the feedback I think I got the invisible Effingham in the right place,

 

[MikefromCrete]

I of course am partial to the Broadway Limited/Three Rivers. Technically that is part of the Amtrak system but requires the dreaded connection.

Service to actual San Francisco and not Emeryville or Oakland.

Agree with more East/West service through Columbus, Ohio but the fact that Amtrak is considering service to Columbus at all tells me they are finally waking up.

Broadway Limited, of course, is one of the first trains that should be reinstated. It served a number of large markets and the rail routes still exist. The National limited is more of a problem such part of it has been abandoned or turned into a slow moving short line. There's probably a way to do it, but I'm not sure what that would be.

How would you route the California Zephyr and/or Coast Starlight into San Francisco? Via San Jose? That would add an extra couple hour to the route and I don't see how it would be more convenient than the current bus route,. Via a tunnel under San Francisco Bay? There's not enough money in anybody's transportation budget for that.

The Pioneer and Dessert Wind get a lot of love here, but they traveled through a lot of unpopulated territory.

 

[jis]

Broadway Limited, of course, is one of the first trains that should be reinstated. It served a number of large markets and the rail routes still exist. The National limited is more of a problem such part of it has been abandoned or turned into a slow moving short line. There's probably a way to do it, but I'm not sure what that would be.

The quickest way to restore the Broadway would be on its last routing before final discontinuance i.e. on ex B&O serving Yougnstown and Akron among others. The original Broadway route while mostly intact is generally downgraded to 60mph so it will take some work to get it upto speed in a manner of speaking. Also the original access into Chicago is no more. An alternate slower routing is available though.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Broadway Limited, of course, is one of the first trains that should be reinstated. It served a number of large markets and the rail routes still exist. The National limited is more of a problem such part of it has been abandoned or turned into a slow moving short line. There's probably a way to do it, but I'm not sure what that would be.

How would you route the California Zephyr and/or Coast Starlight into San Francisco? Via San Jose? That would add an extra couple hour to the route and I don't see how it would be more convenient than the current bus route,. Via a tunnel under San Francisco Bay? There's not enough money in anybody's transportation budget for that.

A route from Los Angeles/San Jose to San Francisco like the Southern Pacific's Lark train is fine for a start. Messing with the Coast Starlight or California Zephyr is probably unnecessary.

The Lark - March, 1968 - Streamliner Schedules

The quickest way to restore the Broadway would be on its last routing before final discontinuance i.e. on ex B&O serving Yougnstown and Akron among others. The original Broadway route while mostly intact is generally downgraded to 60mph so it will take some work to get it upto speed in a manner of speaking. Also the original access into Chicago is no more. An alternate slower routing is available though.

I'm just looking for direct service between Pennsylvania and Chicago. Ideally I'd want to serve as big cities as possible so either Cleveland/Toledo or possibly Columbus or Detroit/Michigan.

 

[rail sale]

Whoa, I didn't know Indy to St. Louis was a thing in the Amtrak era! Is the Pittsburg - Columbus route abandoned? Pitts-Columbus-Indy seems like a corridor to me.

I'm just looking for direct service between Pennsylvania and Chicago. Ideally I'd want to serve as big cities as possible so either Cleveland/Toledo or possibly Columbus or Detroit/Michigan.

The National Limited is my new favorite route that ain't., Columbus is the real growth city in the region, a twilight (the '79 route had 5pm to 7am) service between NYC and Columbus would seem to make some sense.

 

[jiml]

Thanks for the feedback I think I got the invisible Effingham in the right place,

View attachment 22788

Your "study" is interesting and is fostering the right suggestions. I look forward to seeing the finished product - if that is the objective.

 

[Qapla]

Routing the SM back through Ocala and Waldo would be something I would like - as it shows in the map @railiner linked to
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0028

 

[jis]

Routing the SM back through Ocala and Waldo would be something I would like - as it shows in the map @railiner linked to
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0028

That will happen only if CSX chooses to allow it, since in the deal that transferred the Deland - Poinciana section to FDOT, CSX was given exclusive rights to the Ocala route.

 

[bms]

I agree with those who said the Desert Wind and Pioneer, and also think a revived Lone Star (Chicago to Houston via Kansas City, Oklahoma City, and Dallas) would do well. It originally was routed through Fort Worth but would pick up more passengers if it ran through Dallas. This Texas Monthly article on the Lone Star from 1974 is really interesting.

If we could do away with some of the post-9/11 security theater, I would add the Niagara Rainbow (Detroit to New York via Southern Ontario) and the International (Chicago to Toronto).

 

[Barb Stout]

Agree with more East/West service through Columbus, Ohio but the fact that Amtrak is considering service to Columbus at all tells me they are finally waking up.

I don't think it was that Amtrak needed to wake up; it was more like certain politicians in Ohio who rejected free money due to ideology are no longer in charge. I hope "they" never get power back.

 

[Cal]

I think a Chicago-Florida route should be re-implemented to, if possible.

 

[jis]

If we could do away with some of the post-9/11 security theater, I would add the Niagara Rainbow (Detroit to New York via Southern Ontario) and the International (Chicago to Toronto).

The original route used by the Niagara Rainbow is no more. The routing that is available now is likely to be a couple of hours slower even if there was zero time required for border formalities.

 

[Larry H.]

I rode the National Limited after Amtrak took over. The train was sort of an after thought, no real lounge or dinner, the rails were in bad shape. I understood that is why they quit running it, poor maintenance killed it. And yet on the last trip I had on it they were so crowded the conductor gave us a bedroom to sit in due to lack of coach seats.

 

[sttom]

Three routes that I think would make sense would be reviving the North Coast Limited, parts of which are under some sort of planning. Having a through train from Chicago to Seattle/Portland is not a huge ask. The second one is the Desert Wind. The change I would make being that it run north to Butte to connect with the North Coast instead of being another Chicago train. Doing this would bring service back to Ogden and Eastern Idaho. That part of Idaho lost service when Amtrak was created, with its proximity to Yellowstone, having service expanded there makes some sense. I know there is a bus out of Salt Lake, but people like trains better. The last one is more a combination of two routes. Which is restoring Chicago to Omaha service over the old Rock Island route since it’s remnants serve Des Moines and have a long distance train run along the old UP City lines. If Amtrak absolutely can’t live without another LA/Chicago train, I think having a section break off this train in Utah is a better candidate than just having the old Desert Wind back. There are more routes that should come back, but these are the ones that I think have the best cases and haven’t been mentioned.