Sonoma-Marin SMART update

[PetalumaLoco]

SMART, Sonoma Marin Area Rail Transit, is moving into the train selection phase.

If interested what they're looking at, here's the SMART main page, and there are links to the 6 manufacturers being considered.

SMART makes noises that they will go with light rail DMUs, but they will look at FRA compliant trains that are Diesel-electric. An advantage of FRA compliance is that in the future the system could link to Amtrak thru the north bay, and even lease SMART trains out to CalTrain under certain circumstances. (And they'd be faster than DMUs, too!)

It would be oh so cool to be able to train over to the east bay and hook up with Amtrak, but that's probably too much to hope for.

 

[sechs]

Frankly, I can't imagine that that enough people there would *want* to link with the rest of the world. So many people didn't even want this.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Frankly, I can't imagine that that enough people there would *want* to link with the rest of the world. So many people didn't even want this.

Okay. What's your point?

 

[sechs]

There's no reason to pay more for something that people don't want.

 

[Alice]

Frankly, I can't imagine that that enough people there would *want* to link with the rest of the world. So many people didn't even want this.

Well, people might not want to link directly to Amtrak, but they'd like to link to other transit systems, including BART (which links to Amtrak). Also, judging from commute-time traffic, a fair number of people do commute in cars between the North Bay and Sacramento, so there might really be interest in connecting to Amtrak.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Frankly, I can't imagine that that enough people there would *want* to link with the rest of the world. So many people didn't even want this.

Well, people might not want to link directly to Amtrak, but they'd like to link to other transit systems, including BART (which links to Amtrak). Also, judging from commute-time traffic, a fair number of people do commute in cars between the North Bay and Sacramento, so there might really be interest in connecting to Amtrak.

Alice

I like that answer. Seems kind of a waste to plan a north bay transit system that doesn't link up to anything other than buses or the ferry.

 

[sechs]

Perhaps you guys have a different definition of "link" meaning "allowing one to make a connection" rather than actually "connecting."

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Perhaps you guys have a different definition of "link" meaning "allowing one to make a connection" rather than actually "connecting."

I was thinking both; allowing me to ride to an Amtrak station for transfer to Amtrak, and allowing SMART trains to run as Capitol Corridor special trains.

 

[sechs]

The former, maybe; the latter, forget it.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

The former, maybe; the latter, forget it.

Why?

 

[sechs]

Why?

Frankly, I can't imagine that that enough people there would *want* to link with the rest of the world. So many people didn't even want this.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Why?

Frankly, I can't imagine that that enough people there would *want* to link with the rest of the world. So many people didn't even want this.

If we started with heavy rail instead of light rail, I think the track is there already to get from Marin to Martinez. Heavy rail would be better anyway since we're using freight right of way in Sonoma and Marin. I think in the long run it would be wise.

 

[p&sr]

If we started with heavy rail instead of light rail, I think the track is there already to get from Marin to Martinez.

The track exists, but the routing is curious... from Petaluma, you would head south over the Petaluma River Drawbridge, across the Petaluma marshes to Novato. Then across the Novato marshes to the mouth of the Petaluma River, over the other Drawbridge there, then along the marshes of San Francisco Bay to the Sears Point Raceway, crossing Hwy 37 there at grade level inside the intersection with Hwy 121, then up through the Sonoma marshes to the Shellville Depot, crossing Hwy 12 there twice at grade level, then back out into the Sonoma marshes and the Napa marshes and across the Napa River Drawbridge, then over the Hills to Solano County and the Junction at Suisun-Fairfield. From there you can take the UP Mainline across the Benicia Marshes and over the big Drawbridge to Martinez.

One problem, besides all the drawbridges and grade crossings, is that in wet years much of the Track is under water.

My travel partner Moonlight Express says it would be great fun, and we'd love to do it. But I'm not sure it's ready to catch on in a big way just yet...

 

[PetalumaLoco]

If we started with heavy rail instead of light rail, I think the track is there already to get from Marin to Martinez.

The track exists, but the routing is curious... from Petaluma, you would head south over the Petaluma River Drawbridge, across the Petaluma marshes to Novato. Then across the Novato marshes to the mouth of the Petaluma River, over the other Drawbridge there, then along the marshes of San Francisco Bay to the Sears Point Raceway, crossing Hwy 37 there at grade level inside the intersection with Hwy 121, then up through the Sonoma marshes to the Shellville Depot, crossing Hwy 12 there twice at grade level, then back out into the Sonoma marshes and the Napa marshes and across the Napa River Drawbridge, then over the Hills to Solano County and the Junction at Suisun-Fairfield. From there you can take the UP Mainline across the Benicia Marshes and over the big Drawbridge to Martinez.

One problem, besides all the drawbridges and grade crossings, is that in wet years much of the Track is under water.

My travel partner Moonlight Express says it would be great fun, and we'd love to do it. But I'm not sure it's ready to catch on in a big way just yet...

SMART already plans on using the existing track you spoke of to and thru Novato all the way to the Larkspur ferry terminal. Some of it will need rebuilding, including at least 1 tunnel that needs some work (in Novato). The branch from the Hiway 37/101 junction out thru Sears Point and Napa is not in the current plan, as you know.

Sonoma County was looking at using the rail out thru Napa to the Sacramento Valley for shipping garbage, as the county dump is no longer accepting loads and everything must be trucked out. I haven't heard much about this lately since the county is trying to sell the dump, but that's another story.

 

[p&sr]

The branch from the Hiway 37/101 junction out thru Sears Point and Napa is not in the current plan, as you know.

Too bad. That's just where it starts to get fun.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

From Railway Age, presented as "Breaking News," but undated:

DMU favored for Sonoma/Marin rail plan

"The board says it’s aware that only one U.S. manufacturer, Columbus, Ohio-based US Railcar LLC, is capable of producing DMU equipment. US Railcar, owned by the Value Recovery Group, purchased most of the assets of Fort Lupton, Colo.-based Colorado Railcar earlier this year."

US Railcar, LLC (link to brochure didn't work for me)

Apparently no mechanical monstrosity Sprinter for SMART. Poor PetalumaLoco will be heartbroken.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

From Railway Age, presented as "Breaking News," but undated:
DMU favored for Sonoma/Marin rail plan

"The board says it’s aware that only one U.S. manufacturer, Columbus, Ohio-based US Railcar LLC, is capable of producing DMU equipment. US Railcar, owned by the Value Recovery Group, purchased most of the assets of Fort Lupton, Colo.-based Colorado Railcar earlier this year."

US Railcar, LLC (link to brochure didn't work for me)

Apparently no mechanical monstrosity Sprinter for SMART. Poor PetalumaLoco will be heartbroken.

Are you kdding? I don't want a Sprinter. I'll take heavy rail. I think that's good news.

The board is meeting today to make a decision on which way to go, as reported in the local paper.

 

[Amtk511]

The last DMUs delivered by Colorado Railcar (now US Railcar) are the WES trains operated by Trimet on P&W trackage. The DMUs meet FRA requirements but they sure "peculiar". At least the K3LA horns sound good (compared to the Sprinter). Also, how is Sprinter a mechanical monstrosity? It looks better IMO than the WES although the horn should be replaced.

WES video:

 

[PetalumaLoco]

The last DMUs delivered by Colorado Railcar (now US Railcar) are the WES trains operated by Trimet on P&W trackage. The DMUs meet FRA requirements but they sure "peculiar". At least the K3LA horns sound good (compared to the Sprinter). Also, how is Sprinter a mechanical monstrosity? It looks better IMO than the WES although the horn should be replaced.
WES video:

Whooz's Sprinter ride.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I'll be riding the mechanical monstrosity that is Sprinter again next Tuesday with the On Track On Line SoCal RailFest 2009. Can't wait to see what new riders think of it!

Petaluma, of COURSE I was kidding about you being heartbroken over no SMART Sprinter. Well aware of your distate for it.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

I'll be riding the mechanical monstrosity that is Sprinter again next Tuesday with the On Track On Line SoCal RailFest 2009. Can't wait to see what new riders think of it!
Petaluma, of COURSE I was kidding about you being heartbroken over no SMART Sprinter. Well aware of your distate for it.

Thankyewww!

 

[PetalumaLoco]

They voted.

directed staff to prepare specifications for rail vehicles that meet the most stringent EPA standards, are capable of speeds up to 79 mph and will provide a first-class passenger experience for commuters, tourists and other travelers in the North Bay.

The vote to choose “FRA-compliant” vehicles was 9-2,

Four manufacturers have indicated to SMART that they are interested in building vehicles for this project. They include Brookville Equipment Corp. of Brookville, PA; Nippon-Sharyo Ltd. of Japan; Siemens Corp. of Germany; and U.S. Railcar LLC of Columbus, OH. All four have indicated they would build SMART’s fleet of about a dozen vehicles in the United States, meeting the Federal Transit Administration’s “Buy America” requirements.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why are people so damned stupid when it comes to buying light-rail equipment? I swear to god, and it saddens me to pieces, but the last decent American DMU was the Budd RDC. Even Budd's own SPV2000 was a serious disappointment.

We need a new PCC-type thing, a universal design for FRA compliant rail diesel cars.

My design?

1) Traction motors powered by a single diesel engine located in the roof of the vehicle, enough to power traction motors about the same level of power as a M8's comfortably.

2) Modular design involving sections equal in length to a standard window- this allows length to be shortened to meet clearances and allows for developing a center-door module for use in higher-volume, higher turnover systems.

3) Streamlined front end with a similar concept to a Metroliner- doors that can close to offer streamlined front (aero-efficency) or allow for an open or diaphragm pass-through between cars (So one car can operate efficiently on its own, or operate in groups, or even be connected in such a way to function as a longer-distance, low volume set).

4) Shot-welded stainless steel construction.

5) Adaptable power sources- the cars mechanical spaces should allow it to be an DMU, a overhead or third rail EMU, or a dual mode of either kind. Not all built with this equipment, but designed to allow it to be built with any of the three, and preferably to allow conversions later on in life.

6) Space designated to allow for a food service variation of the design: again, making it versitile. The idea is the same design could be used for SMART or Amtrak.

Think of how much cheaper it would be to do all this if everyone used the same basic design as a starting point.

I'll be sad if they use the ex-CRC DMU. Its such a flawed design, it being on the market is demonstrative of flawed logic. I mean, hell, we stopped using carbon steel for passenger cars in the 50s.

 

[DET63]

The last DMUs delivered by Colorado Railcar (now US Railcar) are the WES trains operated by Trimet on P&W trackage. The DMUs meet FRA requirements but they sure "peculiar". At least the K3LA horns sound good (compared to the Sprinter). Also, how is Sprinter a mechanical monstrosity? It looks better IMO than the WES although the horn should be replaced.
WES video:

with Leslie RS3K diesel airhorns

 

[electricron]

The only light DMU/EMU railcar I'm aware of that meets your desires is the Stadler GTW. Except the passenger unit is made of aluminum vs stainless steel. Only DMU versions exist in the USA (#1 Riverline NJT, #2 Metrorail Austin, #3 A-Train Denton). But there are EMU versions running in Europe.....