Southwest Chief discussion

[chadamfleetrailfan]

On tonight's #4(25) while watching it on the Fullerton railcam, I noticed that there was a horizon car possibly deadheading in front of the baggage car. Was this put on there to accommodate more passengers, or just simply deadheading without any use? (Just curious)

 

[MikefromCrete]

Since the Horizon is in front of the baggage car, I would say it is deadheading to Chicago, perhaps en route to Beech Grove.

 

[Cal]

Since the Horizon is in front of the baggage car, I would say it is deadheading to Chicago, perhaps en route to Beech Grove.

Agreed. I don't think they would ever put a revenue passenger car in such a position that passengers would have to go through the baggage and transdorm.

 

[zephyr17]

Agreed. I don't think they would ever put a revenue passenger car in such a position that passengers would have to go through the baggage and transdorm.

Yeah, that's definitely a deadhead, but from where? Are there any services that are based in LA with Horizons? I thought everything in Southern California was Superliners and Surfliner/California Cars.

 

[Cal]

Yeah, that's definitely a deadhead, but from where? Are there any services that are based in LA with Horizons? I thought everything in Southern California was Superliners and Surfliner/California Cars.

I know the Surfliner had a horizon set but I think those were moved up to Seattle.

Maybe it was a leftover from that, or maybe one of the coaches used for siemens personnel when the Alc-42's first appeared (I don't actually know if the first few trains had a horizon, but it's a possibility).

 

[allanorn]

Yeah, that's definitely a deadhead, but from where? Are there any services that are based in LA with Horizons? I thought everything in Southern California was Superliners and Surfliner/California Cars.

Surfliner had a Horizon or Amfleet set for extra runs due to Del Mar fair back in the day.

 

[Cal]

Surfliner had a Horizon or Amfleet set for extra runs due to Del Mar fair back in the day.

Yes, but post-covid they don't have as many frequencies and don't need it. I believe most, if not all the horizons were sent to the Cascades to replace the scrapped Talgos.

 

[Eric in East County]

We noted that the SWC No. 3 that was due into LA today (7-22-2023) is currently running 10 hours late due to “mechanical issues.”

In cases like this, how does Amtrak accommodate those passengers with guaranteed connections to the Pacific Surfliner, assuming that the last Surfliner for the day has already departed before No. 3 arrives? Are they given food vouchers and put up in a hotel for the night? Is a special shuttle bus provided for them?

 

[zephyr17]

Well, it'd have to be 14 hours late to miss the last train.

If that was the case, though, they'd probably book you onto the night bus, Thruway 5818, that leaves LA at 2:25 am and arrives in San Diego at 5:25 am. They probably wouldn't lay you over. That's what they do when the Starlight misconnects with 794 at 10:10 pm.

 

[Eric in East County]

That's assuming that there is no bus bridge in effect and that all the Pacific Surfliner trains are running as scheduled. (Do you think they'd let us wait in the Metropolitan Lounge until that 2:25 a.m. bus leaves?)

If this does ever happen to us, we'd probably stay in a hotel at our own expense and take the next day's Pacific Surfliner. (Can you recommend a good hotel that is clean and safe and convenient to Los Angeles Union Station?)

 

[zephyr17]

That's assuming that there is no bus bridge in effect and that all the Pacific Surfliner trains are running as scheduled. (Do you think they'd let us wait in the Metropolitan Lounge until that 2:25 a.m. bus leaves?)

If this does ever happen to us, we'd probably stay in a hotel at our own expense and take the next day's Pacific Surfliner. (Can you recommend a good hotel that is clean and safe and convenient to Los Angeles Union Station?)

As far as the Metropolitan Lounge goes, it closes at 10 pm, end of story, so that's a no.

As to hotels, the Metro Plaza is close, clean comfortable and safe, though somewhat worn. However, it is so close that cabs will refuse to take you. Walking is fine into the evening, but late at night it's another matter. I had the unfortunate experience of arriving at LA on the Starlight at 3 am some years ago. A street person insistently tried to "help" me with my bag on the walk. Luckily, it didn't escalate into anything and the only consequence was being shaken up.

Since then, if there was any possibility of arriving in the middle of the night, I have booked into major downtown hotels where a cab would be willing to take me.

If that happens and you do not want to take the night bus, be sure and contact Amtrak to have the ticket switched to a Surfliner the next day. They won't pick up the hotel if they've offered the night bus, but will be happy to reticket you.

 

[flitcraft]

Recently we've been staying in LA at the Miyako, in Little Tokyo. A bit farther than the Metroplaza, but nicer and not really much more expensive. They have a restaurant on the second floor that we've never tried, what with the options a few feet away in Little Tokyo. But in the lobby there is a Japanese bakery making incredible shokupan milk bread buns and coffee and tea drinks, so breakfast there is a good option. I haven't tried walking there super-late, but the route felt safe enough at 9 pm, and Little Tokyo itself is hopping with people even later.

As for the 0 dark thirty bus, does Union Station stay open for those passengers? I've noticed that the last couple of years they police the station seating being sure that those there are ticketed passengers...

 

[zephyr17]

As for the 0 dark thirty bus, does Union Station stay open for those passengers? I've noticed that the last couple of years they police the station seating being sure that those there are ticketed passengers...

They keep a small roped off seating area open overnight. Security will check that people there are ticketed passengers.

9 pm would be fine to walk to the Metro Plaza as well. Much later than 10 or so I wouldn't walk to either one. While Little Tokyo remains busy late, Alameda between them is something of a dead zone.

 

[Eric in East County]

Our thanks to both of you for all this information. (Where else but on AU could we find it?) Hopefully, we'll never be in a position where we'll need to make use of it, but we'll keep it handy anyhow just in case. One can never have too many backup plans when traveling on Amtrak.

 

[Willbridge]

Recently we've been staying in LA at the Miyako, in Little Tokyo. A bit farther than the Metroplaza, but nicer and not really much more expensive. They have a restaurant on the second floor that we've never tried, what with the options a few feet away in Little Tokyo. But in the lobby there is a Japanese bakery making incredible shokupan milk bread buns and coffee and tea drinks, so breakfast there is a good option. I haven't tried walking there super-late, but the route felt safe enough at 9 pm, and Little Tokyo itself is hopping with people even later.

As for the 0 dark thirty bus, does Union Station stay open for those passengers? I've noticed that the last couple of years they police the station seating being sure that those there are ticketed passengers...

A few years ago, I was able to get a cab from LAUPT to the Miyako. It was a nice place and in September 2016 I enjoyed a renovation project discount. My balcony overlooked a busy street scene, but the room was quiet,

 

[NYP2NFL01]

I looked at the status of the Chief (Train 4 8/1). At one point the train was traveling at 88 MPH between Gallup and Albuquerque, NM. Is that section of track rated for speeds higher than 79 MPH?

 

[jis]

I looked at the status of the Chief (Train 4 8/1). At one point the train was traveling at 88 MPH between Gallup and Albuquerque, NM. Is that section of track rated for speeds higher than 79 MPH?

90 MPH in that segment.

 

[lrh442]

90mph running permitted in at least spots on the following segments:
Barstow-Needles-Kingman-Flagstaff
Winslow-Gallup– Albuquerque
KCY-Marceline-LaPlata-Ft. Madison

For those that may not know, 90mph running on this route is allowed in areas with Automated Train Stop. ATS uses a shoe mounted to the locomotive and trackside devices that induce a magnetic current to activate an in-cab signal. When a restrictive signal is passed the engineer must acknowledge it otherwise a penalty brake will occur. This is a legacy system from AT&SF.

 

[jis]

90mph running permitted in at least spots on the following segments:
Barstow-Needles-Kingman-Flagstaff
Winslow-Gallup– Albuquerque
KCY-Marceline-LaPlata-Ft. Madison

For those that may not know, 90mph running on this route is allowed in areas with Automated Train Stop. ATS uses a shoe mounted to the locomotive and trackside devices that induce a magnetic current to activate an in-cab signal. When a restrictive signal is passed the engineer must acknowledge it otherwise a penalty brake will occur. This is a legacy system from AT&SF.

And of course now they also have I-ETMS PTC enforcing absolute signal indications and civil speed limits including TSRs.

 

[zephyr17]

And of course now they also have I-ETMS PTC enforcing absolute signal indications and civil speed limits including TSRs.

Is the old Santa Fe ATS still in service? I think I heard somewhere that PTC, serving the same function and more, was allowed to replace it and BNSF deactivate it. The track is being otherwise maintained to Class 5 standards, so it would not require a reduction in speed limit if PTC took over ATS functionality.

If so, that would get around one of the limits of the old Santa Fe ATS. It was installed, of course, in the days of directional running and installed only with the "current of traffic" on each main (which was often left hand running on Santa Fe due to grade profiles of each track). With the Transcon having been converted to multiple main track CTC, if the SW Chief was routed onto the "wrong" main by the dispatcher it would be limited to 79 mph. With that said, BNSF dispatchers did generally try to keep the SW Chief on the "right" main.

 

[jis]

I can't think of any reason why they would keep the old system alive.

 

[NES28]

I have heard that FRA has been willing to authorize 90 mph on PTC-equipped lines which have track upgraded and maintained to the appropriate track classification. Can any one provide any specifics?

 

[jis]

I have heard that FRA has been willing to authorize 90 mph on PTC-equipped lines which have track upgraded and maintained to the appropriate track classification. Can any one provide any specifics?

I suspect they would require grade crossing gates retiming too, and it is possible that the host railroads would baulk at that.

 

[JWM]

The crossing gates would have to be retimed. Decades ago when CN/Via had their Turbo train running from Montreal to Toronto, I was lucky enought to sit in the front "dome" and had a nice dinner also. What was odd was the fact that the crossing gates came down when the train was about half thought the crossings. Ouch.
Amarillo might have some stretches as well.

 

[GDRRiley]

Yeah, that's definitely a deadhead, but from where? Are there any services that are based in LA with Horizons? I thought everything in Southern California was Superliners and Surfliner/California Cars.

California use to run 20 horizons and a few amfleets but those all left in the start of 2020.

I have heard that FRA has been willing to authorize 90 mph on PTC-equipped lines which have track upgraded and maintained to the appropriate track classification. Can any one provide any specifics?

Class 5 track is required good for 80mph freight, and 90mph pax service. There is no requirement to have quad gates at every crossing like class 6 running at 110mph

I suspect they would require grade crossing gates retiming too, and it is possible that the host railroads would baulk at that.

Most crossings already exceed the FRA 20s requirements aiming for 30s and speed predictors shouldn't care at 80 vs 90mph